The much debated ms1 vs ms2

[bimmerboy]

But, now I feel its been long enough and I've heard ms2 extra code is stable so it's now an option for me the newbie of standalone.

I plan on ms'ing(fuel and spark) my car, then turboing it once it's all running. So, for the m30 is Ms2 worth it?

Its a pretty basic engine, one cam and no variable anything so how powerful a ecu do you need? Is the extra resolution and speed really going to help me and actually make things easier for me, when I push the boost up and really need a good tune, or is it just going to be more tuning for me? I also really like the idea of electronic boost control, which isn't really out for ms2 extra yet.

Also it will be in a motronic box using the stock harness, and a b35 60-2 wheel for ignition.

Basically, is ms2 really just for the junkies that like the electronic part of projects or is it truly an upgrade for high performance?

Thanks

[turbodan]

Why would you bother starting out with an older, less advanced, less capable system when MS 2 is so worked out?

Boost control was in the code I started out with months ago. I'm sure its working great by now, though I dont use it myself. I do use the dual 12x12 maps, enhanced accel enrichment and revised basic functions. Theres a guy with a GTI in town still working with MS 1, and it really is basically inferior. I suppose it works, but not as well. And MS 2 gets better all the time.

My two cents...

[M. Holtmeier]

I'm running ms 1 extra w/ spark,3 wire IAC and boost control. I built and tuned it with the autotune feature and a wideband. The car runs better than stock and has better all around driveability. The boost control function works very well in open loop. I will be using an output function to run water injection next spring. Yes, it is old, but it is a solid platform that has been proven and has all the functions I will ever need. I have read though that many thought ms 1 could get no better, and when ms 2 came out it was. Either way, my car runs like a dream and the software works really well for me too.

[bimmerboy]

Turbodan, i can see its better, but is it needed? Would you say cars run better, easier when on ms2?

grs-You feel its plenty good enough? have you ever tried ms2 on other cars?

thanks guys

[M. Holtmeier]

grs-You feel its plenty good enough? have you ever tried ms2 on other cars?

I should have stated that I haven't used ms 2 and that it seems that ms 1 works very well on m30 engines.

[FirstFives Dictator]

I think there are bigger differences in system integration and tuning than there would be in code base.
MS1 will work well for most BMW applications.
MS2Extra technically does work better in several respects (better wheel decoding, better AE), but in my experience, most cars are not tuned to that level.

I repair the MS boxes and find code corruption about 10-15 times as often in MSII processors as MS1. Not sure why.

I've run both systems, and for now MS1 is easier for me to set up. There is some newer MS2 Extra code out that I will need to try that might change that.

But my MS2 Extra installation is on the E30 m3 race car so, I don't get a lot of chances to play with it, as it's not street legal

However I and it will be at VIR on tomorrow (10/31/07)
Will shoot in car video.

[Brad D.]

As established and documented as MS1 is, I am with turbodan. I went with MS2 as it is the newer platform with lots of development still occuring. I like to constantly tweak stuff and will probably always be doing upgrades and changing things so I like the idea of new developments coming down the pipe. As seen by the previous posts, both can and will work well, I guess it comes down to what you want to do with it, how much do you intend to develop it and if you feel that the additional features justifies the additional cost of MS2.

[turbodan]

The extra resolution in the tables alone are reason enough for me. I'm using the second ignition table for idle control. I dont even have an IAC valve, just a neat little pocket in the idle area where it retards timing to keep the engine speed at a certain place under a certain manifold vacuum. It works great, even on 40 degree cold starts. You cant do that with MS 1. I dont think theres dual table code out there for it and I dont think the processor is powerful enough.

[bimmerboy]

I
I repair the MS boxes and find code corruption about 10-15 times as often in MSII processors as MS1. Not sure why.

That doesn't sound good for me.

But I do like dan's point...

I'm kind of leaning towards ms1 right now though, I'm more likely to tweak and change up the hardware setup, and only change up the software in terms of the tune per those hardware tweaks, and just leaving the software alone until its really obsolete.

[T_C_D]

I live by the KISS principle. I do not find it necessary to have the latest/greatest or tweak my car all the time once it is running/performing to my requirements.

My 535i ran on MS1. Once it ran correctly I went months without ever hooking up the laptop or even opening the hood (it didn't burn oil). That type of reliability is what is important to me.

Todd

[turbodan]

I
I repair the MS boxes and find code corruption about 10-15 times as often in MSII processors as MS1. Not sure why.

That doesn't sound good for me.

Its hardly a problem. Statistics are funny like that. You might find code corruption to be at fault in the majority of MS 2's moreso than MS 1, but I dont think overall MS 2 is less reliable than MS 1. I dont think that comment meant to say that MS 2 fails more frequently than MS 1. I'd rather have a problem I can fix with a reflash than a hardware malfunction or else.

I dont doubt MS 2 would run fine indefinitely if you just let it go, without any laptop connection or attention. I've never had to revive it for no reason. Its always ready to go for me.