Ireland Engineering Urethane Motor Mounts...

[wkohler]

...are not holding up so well!

These were installed at the end of March. The left one looks fine, but the right one, not so much. I sent these photos to them and got a response from Jeff Ireland saying they're fine. Then when I asked why this one looks so much worse than others I've seen which have been installed for years on regularly tracked cars, I got no response.

I know the right mount takes all of the abuse, but it's collapsing on itself after a little less than two months. I don't think that's very good - especially when they cost more than 5x that of the green rubber mounts.

[Bimmerguy2002]

dude....they are meant for a track car where there is no stress to the chassis....smooth roads. Even as i mercilessly punish my car, urethane is a no-no for a stiff car that sees public roads, SOMETHING needs to give, they will eventually crack and fail. Over time cracks will form in the strut towers with camber plates where there is no rubber to absorb, without reinforcing everything you have to expect fatigue or total failure at some point.
The only urethane you should have is the control arms and sway bar bushings. The engine, tranny, diff, and subframe mounts as urethane is too extreme.
I know its a cool mod and everything, but there is a reason why i still havent done something like that.

[JoshInAtlanta]

Lucky you pay attention to that stuff. I'd swap them back out, that seems unacceptable after such little time.

[Mike W.]

I've used urethane products in industry some and it's got funny properties. It seems easier to control it's hardness, and I think easier to cast or mold and work with, but it's not as resiliant as rubber. Which is why it probably works better as a bushing that needs firmness than a motor mount which always has a load on it.

Shape wise, those look an awful lot like E12 mounts, which I seem to recall reading somewhere can be substituted for E28 ones. You might consider those if you really want a HD mount. Of course neither those or the stock provide near the eye candy quotent of the bright yellow ones, LOL.

[Tucker]

dude....they are meant for a track car where there is no stress to the chassis....smooth roads.

You might want to rethink that.

[Bimmerguy2002]

What is to rethink? A flat smooth sweeper or highway 12 between lodi and fairfield CA? There are no sections on flat tracks where it makes it sound like a lightning bolt went off into the car....750 pound springs on public roads is a LOT of stress on mounting points over a track, not to mention road noise and feedback you get....on a track? Non existent.

[wkohler]

What is to rethink? A flat smooth sweeper or highway 12 between lodi and fairfield CA? There are no sections on flat tracks where it makes it sound like a lightning bolt went off into the car....750 pound springs on public roads is a LOT of stress on mounting points over a track, not to mention road noise and feedback you get....on a track? Non existent.

I'm not running 750lb/in springs, cochise. I'm going to venture there is more stress on the motor and transmission mounts under hard cornering than there is driving down a road. I also don't live in a city where you follow tractor ruts for roads. We have very good roads here in Phoenix. That's all beside the point. I don't think the deformation of the mount is acceptable after two months. Neither does the person who recommended them to me and has numerous customers who use them on daily-driven/tracked cars, and have for years. Mine are the worst-looking of the bunch.

[Bimmerguy2002]

Its a bad mod, seriously....there are places urethane/plastics do not belong on the car. What are you looking for with them? They wont increase lap times or give you a better understanding of driving theory, but over time they will make SOMETHING break or crack-there has been documentation in the e30 world about this. Too lazy to search.

[rlomba8204]

Chris-
I don't have any technical insights to offer you, other than to say I agree with your assessment that the mount doesn't look good. Moreover, I also think highly of IE, so I could understand why you would think they would be a sound choice.

That being said, and I don't mean it as criticism, rather as something I've learned from over-thinking many things to do with cars: with BMW, I've found you are almost always better off sticking with the stock part unless there is a very specific reason you want to go in a different direction. I think many of us here, myself included, take for granted to some degree how old these cars are, in the sense that if they weren't so well built they would have been on the scrap heap a long time ago. Obviously, what this means is that the parts that constitute the cars are generally of excellent quality, and it's hard for guys like you or I to do better than the stock part absent some expertise or insights which I know that I generally do not have. So, in this case, unless there was a specific reason to go to the urethane mount, I would just reinstall a new BMW mount -- or probably make that both mounts -- and do the best you can to get a refund on the part.

Good luck getting this resolved, and if you've dropped a lot of money on these, feel free to pick my brain for any potentially useful ideas I might have.

Ray

[tacm]

dude....they are meant for a track car where there is no stress to the chassis....smooth roads. Even as i mercilessly punish my car, urethane is a no-no for a stiff car that sees public roads, SOMETHING needs to give, they will eventually crack and fail. Over time cracks will form in the strut towers with camber plates where there is no rubber to absorb, without reinforcing everything you have to expect fatigue or total failure at some point.
The only urethane you should have is the control arms and sway bar bushings. The engine, tranny, diff, and subframe mounts as urethane is too extreme.
I know its a cool mod and everything, but there is a reason why i still havent done something like that.

Vinny Gambini: I object to this witness being called at this time. We've been given no prior notice he would testify. No discovery of any tests he's conducted or reports he's prepared. And as the court is aware, the defense is entitled to advance notice of all witness who will testify, particularly those who will give scientific evidence, so that we can properly prepare for cross-examination, as well as give the defense an opportunity to have his reports reviewed by a defense expert, who might then be in a position to contradict the veracity of his conclusions.
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Mr. Gambini?
Vinny Gambini: Yes, sir?
Judge Chamberlain Haller: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.
Vinny Gambini: Thank you, sir.
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Overruled.


LOL....

[turbodan]

The heat on that side of the engine might have had something to do with this.

I'm using stock rubber mounts in my turbo car. They hold up to 400+ ft-lbs of torque and dragstrip launches, so I dont really see the room for improvement.

[Brad D.]

The heat on that side of the engine might have had something to do with this.

That is exactly what I was thinking.

[rlomba8204]

That makes sense certainly, but then I have a question: shouldn't IE, when designing a motor mount that will be in relatively close proximity to a heat source, design the mount to be able to tolerate the heat without deforming? Seems like a defective design then. Just a thought.

[wkohler]

The heat on that side of the engine might have had something to do with this.

That is exactly what I was thinking.

That's what I thought as well, but Mr. Ireland said it's a problem from my aftermarket headers. I have the stock manifolds on there, so I've got no idea what he's talking about. Basically, I want them to take these back and I'll put a set of the green mounts in.

[euro635gas]

I prefer my ball sack to stay next to my dick.
Friend don't let friends use Urethane

[Tammer in Philly]

...are not holding up so well!

These were installed at the end of March. The left one looks fine, but the right one, not so much. I sent these photos to them and got a response from Jeff Ireland saying they're fine. Then when I asked why this one looks so much worse than others I've seen which have been installed for years on regularly tracked cars, I got no response.

I know the right mount takes all of the abuse, but it's collapsing on itself after a little less than two months. I don't think that's very good - especially when they cost more than 5x that of the green rubber mounts.

Ditch them immediately. We ran them on an E30 racer and they sheared in two after a love tap from an asshat in a Miata. Stock is just fine for that part. I'd go stock rubber or solid (nylon or aluminum) if someone makes them, but the solid mounts give a HUGE increase in NVH, even with a silky straight-6 (I run solid trans mounts on the track rat).

Ignore SEB; tracks are sometimes smooth but many are bumpy as hell and even on smooth tracks, you have curbing to deal with. Further, the constant on/off throttle puts a lot of stress on the mounts. That happens at any track. This isn't a case of "only good on smooth surfaces," it's a case of a sub-par product.

-tammer

[wkohler]

I'm going to go back to the HD Green rubber mounts, but it will have to wait until after 5er Fest. I can't run solid motor mounts in SCCA Solo, so that won't happen.

Seriously, I got 4 autocrosses and almost 40,000 miles out of the green mounts - plus however many thousands of miles before (they were showing EARLY signs of failure shortly after I purchased the car. They were still reasonably good before I swapped them out for these pieces.

I know I was told to avoid these, but I still thought they'd be worth a shot. I was wrong and have learned. Now I have to try to get Ireland Engineering to take them back.

[vance]

Tammer, just to be clear, you run solid trans mounts with rubber engine mounts on your e36?

Vance

[Ed]

A urethane engine mount should have fail safe interlocking metal components buried inside the urethane to keep the engine in the car even if the urethane completely fails. I have yet to see an aftermarket BMW engine mount with that sort of construction. Also, the hot exhaust just above the mount is going to rapidly degrade the urethane. I watched urethane drip off the engine mount of a JP E36 at the track because the guy was too lazy to reinstall the little heat shield while installing the new mounts.

[Tammer in Philly]

Tammer, just to be clear, you run solid trans mounts with rubber engine mounts on your e36?

Vance

Both my motor and trans mounts are poly; the trans mounts have a solid through-bolt, and yes I have my heatshields in place. I have seen the motor mounts I am running withstand a decent tire-wall hit in another E36 (I was riding shotgun at the time ... this past Friday), but I am planning on ditching them anyway after what I saw in the E30 race car last year.

When I replace the engine mounts after one more season, I'm going with either aluminum or nylon. The trans mounts will match. The "right" way to set up a driveline on solid mounts is the get the engine bolted down first, then shim the trans mounts with washers so they support the transmission at its "natural" position relative to the engine. Some solid transmission mounts are adjustable for this purpose.

My diff mounts and rear subframe mounts are solid as well. The car, needless to say, is really F'n loud. Can you say "gear noise echo chamber"?

-tammer

[euro635gas]

I know I was told to avoid these, but I still thought they'd be worth a shot. I was wrong and have learned. Now I have to try to get Ireland Engineering to take them back.

You go girl

[bmwm3n528]

I vote to keep the mounts and sell me the suspension.

[Kenny Blankenship]

...are not holding up so well!

These were installed at the end of March. The left one looks fine, but the right one, not so much. I sent these photos to them and got a response from Jeff Ireland saying they're fine. Then when I asked why this one looks so much worse than others I've seen which have been installed for years on regularly tracked cars, I got no response.

I know the right mount takes all of the abuse, but it's collapsing on itself after a little less than two months. I don't think that's very good - especially when they cost more than 5x that of the green rubber mounts.

I can't give you the technical reasons, but I'm not surprised this is happening. There was a time when urethane filled rear subframe mounts were the rage and I tried them out. After a little over a year, the urethane cracked. The subframe mounts are now fitted with aluminum inserts.

Eric

[wkohler]

I've got the IE urethane subframe bushings in the 535 and they seem to be holding up fine. I don't doubt it's a heat-related issue, and especially since it's the side with all the weight (usually the first to go anyway). Just surprised it's going so soon.

[1st 5er]

Somewhere, somehow, I had it in my head that they were indestructible.
Oh well, guess not, huh!

[BadM535i]

No wonder why I don't see these mounts being sold on IE's site anymore . Looks like I am going with solid mounts!

[wkohler]

Update! Mounts are out of the car and some Indian-made CRP Industries mounts are in. We'll see how long those last.

So, here are some photos taken to show the condition of both mounts.

Here, the mounts are side-by-side with the studs in the same relative position. As you can see, the right mount (on right) is quite deformed. The top of the photo is the top of the mount.


This view shows the top side of the mounts. This time, the right mount is on the left. You can also see the left mount was starting to collapse a bit as well, as evidenced by the shadow from 11 o'clock to 2 o'clock.


This view shows the bottom of the mounts. Again, the right mount is on the right. You can see where the urethane portion was resting on the subframe. For some reason, even in it's collapsed state, the right mount was quite difficult to remove, most likely because it was not easy to rotate.


So, these will be returned to Ireland Engineering for their evaluation. Just thought I'd share here before boxing them up for shipment tomorrow!

[1st 5er]

At least your recent breakdown was not a huge hassle.

Again...hoping for a speedy and favorable resolution.

[Nebraska_e28]

Keep us posted.

[eyelykeknives]

IE now has these in a darker green color. Does anyone know if the structural integrity of these has changed too for the better?

[Kyle in NO]

I don't understand why anyone would install a mount that is shittier, yet much more expensive than the stock unit.

[535is-pa]

IE now has these in a darker green color. Does anyone know if the structural integrity of these has changed too for the better?

holy zombie thread batman!

IE seems to have taken a downturn in quality in recent times from products ive seen, i looks as if their manufactures have started drinking too much on the job.... i got a set of their poly subframe bushings when they where new and they looked great, i saw a set a while back and they looked like that autozone fiberglass bondo shoved in the shape of a bushing.

im not going to purchase anything from them again, there nice guys and seem to do their best as a company but they fail in quality comparison to places like AKG motorsport.

that said didnt someone use e30 motormounts awhile back? AKG has bad ass mounts for e30/e36 i know alot of theise mounts can be swapped around a bit, ala me running e21 trans mounts in my e36 m3.

[darksideracer69]

I'm not surpised here, I had some IE poly mounts for my e46 engine and trans. After about 2 months the trans mounts were totally destroyed. After about 6 months the engine mounts are destroyed. I will be switching them out for aluminum. Not happy with the quality of IE at all, similar products from uuc have lasted much longer.