I've run Mobil 1 15w50 in my M5 since owning it... the "red top" stuff.
15w50 is going away with the new M1 product revamp. If you want a 15w50 weight Mobil full synthetic product, you've got to go with their extended performance stuff, that is 1yr/15k miles, unless you "race" or have "high duty" usage (i.e. my S38 that goes to track days and is at WOT in daily driving may qualify)
What are people that run M1 15w50 planning on doing ?
I noticed at my local Wal Mart they have like 10 5qt jugs of redtop.. i was thinking of buying all of them up to last me while the jury deliberates on this extended perf business, or if there is a new best choice for S38 owners...
comments ?
New Mobil 1 Changes
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Guest
My WAG says the Extended Life stuff is nothing more than a change in the additive package. New BMWs with the exception of ///M cars have 15k oil change intervals using a Castrol Synthetic formulated for BMW. I recall a link to some site where a speed shop did a longterm oil test with Mobil1 using an independent lab. They found that Mobil1 was good for about 7500 miles and then things started to go goofy with some of the things being tested in the oil. Doing a filter change and adding 1 Qt to top off the engine would bring the oil right back to nearly new properties when tested.
When I get my Euro M5 engine back from rebuild it's getting Kendall Dino oil. Probably 40w during breakin and then 15w-50 from that point on. My M5 probably won't get driven enough per year to justify the use/cost of a synthetic oil. If I used a synthetic it would be a yearly oil change. Plus I'll have forged pistons after the rebuild and I don't know how well a synthetic will cling to the cylinder walls after shutdown. It might be too thin to adequetely protect the pistons until they expand to proper dimensions.
Rich
When I get my Euro M5 engine back from rebuild it's getting Kendall Dino oil. Probably 40w during breakin and then 15w-50 from that point on. My M5 probably won't get driven enough per year to justify the use/cost of a synthetic oil. If I used a synthetic it would be a yearly oil change. Plus I'll have forged pistons after the rebuild and I don't know how well a synthetic will cling to the cylinder walls after shutdown. It might be too thin to adequetely protect the pistons until they expand to proper dimensions.
Rich
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Guest
Except breaking in and getting the rings to properly seat.
I've also never been a fan of Mobil1 after they pulled their Aviation Blends off the market. I have a great dislike for companies that try to intimidate people and refuse to stand by their products. It was only after they were sued in a Class Action suit that MOBILE Oil Company owned up to the problems and reimbursed the owner/operators of aircraft that had used their product thinking it was the absolute best on the market.
I do use Castrol synthetic in my Turbo Volvo. With original seals and 263k miles, no leaks. I go about 7500 miles between changes and use about 1 qt, mainly lost via blowby which is a fact of life with the B230FT Volvo engines.
The E46 325Ci gets whatever the dealership uses, some sort of Castrol made to BMW specs.
The only synthetic oil that might see use in my M5 engine after the rings seat is Royal Purple. Plus they're local to me.
Rich
I've also never been a fan of Mobil1 after they pulled their Aviation Blends off the market. I have a great dislike for companies that try to intimidate people and refuse to stand by their products. It was only after they were sued in a Class Action suit that MOBILE Oil Company owned up to the problems and reimbursed the owner/operators of aircraft that had used their product thinking it was the absolute best on the market.
I do use Castrol synthetic in my Turbo Volvo. With original seals and 263k miles, no leaks. I go about 7500 miles between changes and use about 1 qt, mainly lost via blowby which is a fact of life with the B230FT Volvo engines.
The E46 325Ci gets whatever the dealership uses, some sort of Castrol made to BMW specs.
The only synthetic oil that might see use in my M5 engine after the rings seat is Royal Purple. Plus they're local to me.
Rich
I switched from dino to Mobil 1 at 210k - made a big difference. Switched from Mobil 1 to 20w50 Royal Purple at around 250k...motor ran a bit smoother with RP and throttle response was slightly improved over Mobil 1. Switched from Royal Purple to Redline 20w50 at around 265k - the best oil I've tried yet! Runs as smooth as with Royal Purple, but I swear the Redline freed up a few horses. I am normally able to get RP for $6/qt and Redline for $7/qt at an East Bay speedshop (compared to $5/qt for Mobil 1), so it was a no-brainer for me.
IMHO, toss some RP or Redline in there. Have also heard good stuff about Amsoil, but never tried it myself.
IMHO, toss some RP or Redline in there. Have also heard good stuff about Amsoil, but never tried it myself.
[QUOTE="Rich Euro M5"]Except breaking in and getting the rings to properly seat.
I've also never been a fan of Mobil1 after they pulled their Aviation Blends off the market. I have a great dislike for companies that try to intimidate people and refuse to stand by their products. It was only after they were sued in a Class Action suit that MOBILE Oil Company owned up to the problems and reimbursed the owner/operators of aircraft that had used their product thinking it was the absolute best on the market.
I do use Castrol synthetic in my Turbo Volvo. With original seals and 263k miles, no leaks. I go about 7500 miles between changes and use about 1 qt, mainly lost via blowby which is a fact of life with the B230FT Volvo engines.
The E46 325Ci gets whatever the dealership uses, some sort of Castrol made to BMW specs.
The only synthetic oil that might see use in my M5 engine after the rings seat is Royal Purple. Plus they're local to me.
Rich[/QUOTE]
Rings will wear in (seat) just fine with synthetic, just takes longer because synthetic works so well.
I haven't been involved in private aviation for a long time, so don't know about Mobil and that market.
I use Mobil One for diesel engines in the single diesel truck I have because there's really no other synthetic being marketed for diesels now (Shell is getting started though), I have Mobil One in the 325i now, but Castrol Syntec in the e28 and e9. The only reason I went with Mobil One in the e30 is I could get a case of it in the store I was in. I'm not brand loyal because they're all pretty good.
I haven't purchased mineral oil in about 12 years, a choice I expect to last the remainder of my life. Keep in mind that many, and perhaps most, of the detergents and viscosity extenders in mineral oil are synthetic oils. :p
I've also never been a fan of Mobil1 after they pulled their Aviation Blends off the market. I have a great dislike for companies that try to intimidate people and refuse to stand by their products. It was only after they were sued in a Class Action suit that MOBILE Oil Company owned up to the problems and reimbursed the owner/operators of aircraft that had used their product thinking it was the absolute best on the market.
I do use Castrol synthetic in my Turbo Volvo. With original seals and 263k miles, no leaks. I go about 7500 miles between changes and use about 1 qt, mainly lost via blowby which is a fact of life with the B230FT Volvo engines.
The E46 325Ci gets whatever the dealership uses, some sort of Castrol made to BMW specs.
The only synthetic oil that might see use in my M5 engine after the rings seat is Royal Purple. Plus they're local to me.
Rich[/QUOTE]
Rings will wear in (seat) just fine with synthetic, just takes longer because synthetic works so well.
I haven't been involved in private aviation for a long time, so don't know about Mobil and that market.
I use Mobil One for diesel engines in the single diesel truck I have because there's really no other synthetic being marketed for diesels now (Shell is getting started though), I have Mobil One in the 325i now, but Castrol Syntec in the e28 and e9. The only reason I went with Mobil One in the e30 is I could get a case of it in the store I was in. I'm not brand loyal because they're all pretty good.
I haven't purchased mineral oil in about 12 years, a choice I expect to last the remainder of my life. Keep in mind that many, and perhaps most, of the detergents and viscosity extenders in mineral oil are synthetic oils. :p
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spinedocab
- Posts: 2600
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Upper Bucks County, PA
[QUOTE="fastpat"]Rings will wear in (seat) just fine with synthetic, just takes longer because synthetic works so well.[/QUOTE]
This contradicts everything I have ever heard about breaking in an engine. Even Royal Purple recommends waiting 2,00 miles:
To allow for proper break in of the engine, Royal Purple recommends waiting until the manufacturer's first scheduled oil change or a minimum of 2,000 miles in new gasoline engines. Allow 8,000 to 10,000 miles before using Royal Purple in diesel engines.
And further down the page: "We recommend using a quality mineral-based oil for break-in purposes."
This contradicts everything I have ever heard about breaking in an engine. Even Royal Purple recommends waiting 2,00 miles:
To allow for proper break in of the engine, Royal Purple recommends waiting until the manufacturer's first scheduled oil change or a minimum of 2,000 miles in new gasoline engines. Allow 8,000 to 10,000 miles before using Royal Purple in diesel engines.
And further down the page: "We recommend using a quality mineral-based oil for break-in purposes."
[QUOTE="fastpat"]Both BMW and Porsche use synthetic in their new cars. There are no secret metalurgical formulas that allow this to work, they figure that the wear reduction in the rest of the engine is better than any issue that might be caused by the rings seating more slowly. 
[/QUOTE]
Well, it the difference could be both metallurgical formulas and machining formulas. Different ring designs/coatings and machining patterns/roughnesses will have an effect on break-in, and given that synthetic was not widely used when the engine components were designed for our cars, it's unlikely that break-in with synthetic was considered. However, such is not the case today -- they could easily design for that and install synthetic oil straight off. Absent FIRM information on why they can start off with synthetic, I'd go with the ol' "break it in with dino" advice when rebuilding our engines.
[/QUOTE]Well, it the difference could be both metallurgical formulas and machining formulas. Different ring designs/coatings and machining patterns/roughnesses will have an effect on break-in, and given that synthetic was not widely used when the engine components were designed for our cars, it's unlikely that break-in with synthetic was considered. However, such is not the case today -- they could easily design for that and install synthetic oil straight off. Absent FIRM information on why they can start off with synthetic, I'd go with the ol' "break it in with dino" advice when rebuilding our engines.
Shawn, I began using synthetic in my '79 Mustang within the first year of ownership, did great. There's no doubt in my mind that the Mustang had moly coated rings which made break in much less of an issue than cars built in years when chromed rings were the premium rings for a car, it's likely I could have used synthetic from the start without problems. I wish I had.
There are folks, knowledgeable folks, that say ring break in hasn't been an issue with cars for at least 25 years, that moly rings eliminated ring seating. I've never accepted that information totally, but there is reason to give it some credence.
There is more emphasis on correct cross hatch honing of cylinders, and more importantly, boring cylinders with the head bolts torqued down on a boring plate. Those are some of the more significant machining developments, there could be others.
In our engines, I'd say break in with new high end rings and first class bearings with proper clearances and none of the "I built it loose" stuff, should break in correctly with synthetic.
My opinion.
There are folks, knowledgeable folks, that say ring break in hasn't been an issue with cars for at least 25 years, that moly rings eliminated ring seating. I've never accepted that information totally, but there is reason to give it some credence.
There is more emphasis on correct cross hatch honing of cylinders, and more importantly, boring cylinders with the head bolts torqued down on a boring plate. Those are some of the more significant machining developments, there could be others.
In our engines, I'd say break in with new high end rings and first class bearings with proper clearances and none of the "I built it loose" stuff, should break in correctly with synthetic.
My opinion.
[QUOTE="Raj"]Switched from Royal Purple to Redline 20w50 at around 265k - the best oil I've tried yet! Runs as smooth as with Royal Purple, but I swear the Redline freed up a few horses. I am normally able to get RP for $6/qt and Redline for $7/qt at an East Bay speedshop (compared to $5/qt for Mobil 1), so it was a no-brainer for me.[/QUOTE]
Raj;
to which East Bay Speed Shop do you refer? If it's Performance Plus in Oakland, there two miles from me.
Mike C.
Raj;
to which East Bay Speed Shop do you refer? If it's Performance Plus in Oakland, there two miles from me.
Mike C.
Mike:
I forget the name, but the shop is in Walnut Creek near the corner of Parkside Dr. and Broadway, across the street from Stead Mercedes Benz. But the name "performance plus" does ring a bell...perhaps you should check in with that shop in Oakland to see what they charge. Maybe they're part of the same franchise?
I forget the name, but the shop is in Walnut Creek near the corner of Parkside Dr. and Broadway, across the street from Stead Mercedes Benz. But the name "performance plus" does ring a bell...perhaps you should check in with that shop in Oakland to see what they charge. Maybe they're part of the same franchise?
[QUOTE="fastpat"]I use Mobil One for diesel engines in the single diesel truck I have because there's really no other synthetic being marketed for diesels now (Shell is getting started though),[/QUOTE]
Amsoil makes a couple of very nice full synthetic oils specifically for use in diesels. Go mail order and sign up to be a "preferred customer" (which is not a dealer but enjoys the same price break). Doesn't cost too much for the preferred customer status and the discount is quite substantial. Amsoil also makes some of the best oil filters on the market both in terms of capacity (good for those extended change intervals) and filtering efficiency.
I use it in all my vehicles and have been very pleased with it.
Jeremy
Amsoil makes a couple of very nice full synthetic oils specifically for use in diesels. Go mail order and sign up to be a "preferred customer" (which is not a dealer but enjoys the same price break). Doesn't cost too much for the preferred customer status and the discount is quite substantial. Amsoil also makes some of the best oil filters on the market both in terms of capacity (good for those extended change intervals) and filtering efficiency.
I use it in all my vehicles and have been very pleased with it.
Jeremy
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ej in NorCal
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Benicia, CA
I forget the name, but the shop is in Walnut Creek near the corner of Parkside Dr. and Broadway, across the street from Stead Mercedes Benz. But the name "performance plus" does ring a bell
I think it is called Morgan's Machine? If it is next to Wolfgangs BMW.
[Edit by ej in NorCal on [TIME]1109882644[/TIME]]
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ult ... Prune=1000
check this board out if you want to learn about anything connected with oil. The main difference between dino and synthetic oils is the base stock. synth base stock is esters made from methane and its main advantage is its uniformity. Additive pkgs are pretty much the same dino vs synth. Additive pkgs dont lubricate, they stabilize the base which does the lubrication. If the Borman6 didnt leak oil from the head gasket, I would go to Mobil 1 in a heartbeat. Instead I use Walmart oil and Stp filters. I observe a 3k change interval that takes me 20 minutes and costs about 6$ per change. The oil consumption is unchanged in almost 150k and I will tick off 295k by Sat AM. BTW, regardless of what anybody says, I wouldnt run any oil to 15k in a car. You are risking sludge problemsand acid build up
[Edit by a on [TIME]1109887211[/TIME]]
check this board out if you want to learn about anything connected with oil. The main difference between dino and synthetic oils is the base stock. synth base stock is esters made from methane and its main advantage is its uniformity. Additive pkgs are pretty much the same dino vs synth. Additive pkgs dont lubricate, they stabilize the base which does the lubrication. If the Borman6 didnt leak oil from the head gasket, I would go to Mobil 1 in a heartbeat. Instead I use Walmart oil and Stp filters. I observe a 3k change interval that takes me 20 minutes and costs about 6$ per change. The oil consumption is unchanged in almost 150k and I will tick off 295k by Sat AM. BTW, regardless of what anybody says, I wouldnt run any oil to 15k in a car. You are risking sludge problemsand acid build up
[Edit by a on [TIME]1109887211[/TIME]]
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ej in NorCal
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Benicia, CA
Made the change to Redline 10w40 over the weekend. I have been using
Valvoline DuraBlend, which is half dino/synthetic. I have to say, I am impressed.
I have 102k on my '88 535i and it appears to be running smoother.
Great throttle response and a little better gas mileage. I will be watching for
increased oil leakage. Overall, a great product. I have turned into a synthetic oil fan.
Erik
[Edit by ej in NorCal on [TIME]1110327096[/TIME]]
Valvoline DuraBlend, which is half dino/synthetic. I have to say, I am impressed.
I have 102k on my '88 535i and it appears to be running smoother.
Great throttle response and a little better gas mileage. I will be watching for
increased oil leakage. Overall, a great product. I have turned into a synthetic oil fan.
Erik
[Edit by ej in NorCal on [TIME]1110327096[/TIME]]
I have been running Liqui Moly in all of my cars for the last 6 years and I'm happy. I mostly use the 10W40 MoS2. They are known in the US as Lubro Moly.
http://www.liquimoly.de/
http://www.liquimoly.de/