Headlight Options

[lino]

Does anyone here have headlights in their e28 that are different than the oem headlight that came on the car? Does anyone have LED lights or any other non-original headlights? I'm like to have your opinions on what you prefer most. Please post pics of any other variations you may have or seen. Thank You.
Here are some pics of different head lights that I found:



Here is a picture of a North American M5 head light setup:



Here is a picture of a North American M5 with Euro head light setup:



Angel Eyes- Who sells these?



Euro Ellipsoid Smiley- Are these made for the e28?



Crystal Clear- Are these made for the e28?



Smoked- Are these made for the e28?



Xenon?- Are these made for the e28?



[Edit by lino on [TIME]1109986057[/TIME]]

[Velocewest]

Those aftermarket "crystal clear" lights have a reputation for being about as good as a couple of 'C' cell flashlights duct-taped to the hood.

[lino]

Thanks Tony for the response. That eliminates 1 option .

BTW, I love your car! Looks immaculate!

[ej in NorCal]

The euro lights are the best option, in my opinion. It is the cheapest and
easiest upgrade you can do. It puts the originals to shame.
I am guessing 75% of the board members have the euro set up.

Erik

[Bob in San Jose]

[QUOTE="ej in NorCal"]I am guessing 75% of the board members have the euro set up.

Erik[/QUOTE]

Yea, we wish. Probably more like 25%.

[ej in NorCal]

Really, only 25%. It seems like more looking at the sig pics.
Bob, did the funds arrive OK?

Erik

[lino]

Let's say I decide to do the Euro setup. What will I need to do the conversion? Here is what I came up with. Would you please confirm what I have posted and correct any mistakes:

Hella Halogen Low Beam Left 7" ROUND H-4
Hella Halogen Low Beam Right 7" ROUND H-4
Hella Halogen High Beam Left 5 3/4" Round H-4 or H-1
Hella Halogen High Beam Right 5 3/4" Round H-4 or H-1
New Left Grill BMW Part # 51 13 1 930 827
New Right Grill BMW Part # 51 13 1 930 828
Center Grill is the same
Euro Headlight carriers left and right



Are the grills the same for cars with headlight washers?
Are there Ellipsoid Headlights for the e28?
Does anyone here have headlight aim control?

[shifty]

Someone told me that the best headlight setup is getting some of those blue bulbs. I hear they're really cool!

[djazz]

Very expensive but the absolute best is the Cibie' CSR lights. but since they fit the US grill, they come out pretty close to the Euro cost.

dj

[djazz]

No, Brad. I'm not ignoring your post.

Well maybe I was.

dj

[djazz]

[QUOTE="Lotus72D"]These are not a simple plug and play, but they are said to throw great light. [/QUOTE]

Right. But it's not rocket science either. Just running a couple of relays. Daniel Stern sells the full wiring kit also.

dj

[shifty]

What I've heard about the Hella vs. Cibie debate:

Cibies offer much better lighting than Hellas but are more expensive and are more susceptible to damage. I think this is because the glass is thinner on the lense. This makes the lense more fragile.

The Hellas are a better all-around light in the pricing and robustness -- if that's a word -- department.

I think I remember a discussion from the E34 M5 Yahoo! group about H4s vs. US Ellipsoids vs. Euro Ellipsoids, and I think I remember a large group of people agreeing that Euro Ellipsoids are THE way to go. I'll see if I can find a few of the posts on my e-mail account.

[Seymour in C'ville]

Best period lighting - euro setup.
Best lighting period. Cibie CSR

[lino]

[QUOTE="Seymour in C'ville"]Best period lighting - euro setup.
Best lighting period. Cibie CSR[/QUOTE]

Can you please explain? What do you mean by period lighting?

[lino]

[QUOTE="Shifty"]I think I remember a discussion from the E34 M5 Yahoo! group about H4s vs. US Ellipsoids vs. Euro Ellipsoids, and I think I remember a large group of people agreeing that Euro Ellipsoids are THE way to go. I'll see if I can find a few of the posts on my e-mail account.[/QUOTE]

Please let me know when you find this information.

Thank You

[shifty]

[QUOTE="lino"]Please let me know when you find this information.

Thank You[/QUOTE]

Found it! This e-mail is from Ken LIttle to the BMW E34 M5 Yahoo! Group. Ken is the owner of two EXTREMELY well-maintained E34 M5s -- or was back when I was on the list -- and is very knowledgeable about BMWs.

Here's his post. HIs posts are always long, so sit back and enjoy the information! I think I originally said that he said he liked the Euro ellipsoids the best, but after scanning through this e-mail, it looks like he was talking about the US-spec ellipsoids.

From: "ken_a_little"
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:15:05 -0000
Subject: [M5] HID's, Ellipsoid's (?) You are about to enter a "No Spin Zone"


Since I've used the Bill O'Reilly reference in the past here, the
subject line seemed perfect for what is literally all you should ever
need to know about this topic as it surfaces once again. I started
this early yesterday between meetings. Others had then posted
additional comments, and then I added a bit more, you get the
picture. I tried to answer the additional questions as this moved
forward, never intending to write this much data on the lighting
topic.

Also, Rob, you have mentioned the two different HID/Xenon lamp (bulb)
types you are referring to with the mention of the AC/DC issue, and
then also mentioning there are distinct differences between the bulbs
used for each application. Those two laps (bulbs are going to be
either the D2R or D2S specifically. Although I have now forgotten
which is for each of the two different headlight applications.
Although that is not so important to the two of us since we've had
HID's for some time now that met our needs and objective of wanting
additional night time visibility.

This recent thread also supports what I had mentioned recently on the
phone in regard to an alternative lighting upgrade for those not
wanting to go to HID's.

I also could not help nut notice that your most recent posts seem to
suggest that I may have been a bad influence on you recently. I was
laughing at the humor when reading through this topic last night; I
truly needed a laugh after a full day of meetings. I truly thank you
for that added element as I read between the lines.

Group:

As Rob had mentioned in one of his replies, the US ellipsoids offer a
much more distinct cut off for the light pattern than the Euro
ellipsoids do. Also correct is his comment about the light's
coloration affecting the actual amount of visibility that it
provides. The most effective coloration for producing the maximum
amount of visibility is pure white. As the temperature range of the
light itself increases, more color is introduced, thus yielding less
actual visibility.

At the time that I upgraded both E34 M5's to HID's there were no
options or choices as there are today. Everything was within the 4100-
4300 temperature range which is now considered to what is often
referred to as stage I HID's. I simply wanted only one result, to
have the most light being put on the roadway in front of me. Real
results that can easily be measured the first time you drive the car
at night using HID's. Ironically, the entire HID after-market
business today is only driven by the ever moving target which is the
current "fashion" HID color of the week out there. It's no longer
about wanting a lighting upgrade that produces actual results, it's
about those wanting to "fit in" or appear look "cool".

The US ellipsoid produce a level cut off that covers the entire 180-
degree area in front of the car. The cut off produced in front of the
car by the Euro ellipsoids is roughly a 45 degree angle of light that
is going upward to the right. The Euro ellipsoids also produce an
arc like effect (seen vertical) which is formed by the light being
projected to the sides of the car. They therefore also throw the
light further upward on both sides of the car when compared to the US
ellipsoids. They also produce this same arc like effect on the ground
roughly 10 feet in front of the car. The US ellipsoids basically
produce a very even amount of light both going outward to the sides
and also directly in front of the car. The only other car that I've
seen with factory HID's that has a distinct cut off anywhere as
dramatic as the US ellipsoids do when HID's are installed, is the
Honda S2000.

I actually have some great photo's that Jason Weaver and I had shot
some time ago when comparing HID's. These will also cover several
points of comparison for you, as we were comparing our stage I and
stage II HID's as well as the US and Euro ellipsoids we had each
used. Most importantly is that we were comparing all of this while
the M5's are the ones of the more basic & boring Alpine white variety
that we each own. These photos will do an excellent job of providing
you with an understanding of all that I had quite honestly struggled
with to explain here in a verbal manner.

I'll go through what I have with these photos in regard to seeing the
direct comparisons from different perspectives and or angles. I'll
organize and also name them in a way that clearly makes sense to
understand for anyone looking at them. Since I'm seriously
considering the idea of removing the entire current HID page that I
have on the Bay Area M5's website due to the current HID controversy,
I'll upload these photos into a separate file folder and then share
the link to the folder in another post here.

I can tell you from my own experiences, with the proper amount of
lighting power being used the US ellipsoids are nothing short of
incredible. As an example using the gold reflective Highway Patrol
lettering used on the back of the CHP cars, at a quarter mile the
lettering appears to have been hit with a spotlight. In addition to
myself, this alone has saved a number of other drivers around me at
night to avoid running up on them at speed without seeing them soon
enough. That alone, makes them priceless in my opinion.

Although I had not personally heard of the AC vs. DC comment that Rob
also stated in one of his replies until he recently mentioned it
during a recent phone conversation on this topic. I did however know
that there are two entirely different lamps (bulbs) used for HID
applications depending on whether you are using ellipsoid or free
form headlights. They are all going to be either D2R's or D2S's
depending on your headlamp being an ellipsoid or free form type. Just
as Rob mentioned in his post, the hot spot is in different positions
to maximize the effectiveness of either the ellipsoid or free form
headlamp itself.

The lamp (bulb) used for the ellipsoid is obviously required to be
longer in order to place the actual hot spot properly in the more
complex headlamp assembly itself to properly utilize the ellipsoid
(light magnifying) capability. Using this same lamp in free form
headlamp produces a totally blinding effect for all others on the
roadway. This is the case since it produces a non-focused blast of
bright light going in all directions. Unfortunately, none of which is
on the roadway itself, the only place where it is actually needed for
visibility.

Much like my comment about those wanting to be "cool" by having the
current HID fashion color of the week even if the actual visibility
provided is no better than the stock bulbs that came in the car.
Others never bother to ask any questions to see if they are even
buying the right HID lamps for their cars current headlights. It's
only important to tell others that they've got HID's in their car.
This regardless of the quality of the HID components or their
actually even being the right components for a proper installation.

I must also mention that I've seen numerous others that have been
very critical of the US ellipsoid itself based on their personal
experiences with the stock 9006 halogen's. To base this all on the
stock 9006 halogen bulb's basic inability to provide enough real
lighting power to allow the ellipsoid concept to even begin to
function properly. The ellipsoid headlight design basically magnifies
and projects light from any light source that may be used. The
brighter and or more powerful the light source, the greater the
visible results seen from the lighting being maximized when using
ellipsoids. Also very important with HID's is the ellipsoids ability
to dramatically reduce the intensity seen by others on the road. With
the light also being focused rather than scattered everywhere, the
impact area for other drivers being affected is lessened dramatically
over the non-ellipsoid headlight designs. Otherwise it's like trying
to get any 220V appliance to run on only 110W of power. I'm simply
using that as an example of what happens if anything is not given the
proper amount of power required or needed to function properly.

Ben had also touched on the auto-adjusting capability that factory
HID's have. Each headlight being able to constantly adjust itself to
keep the more intense HID light from blinding others on the road. I
have spent a considerable amount of time in adjusting the HID's in
both cars in order to not be offensive to others on the road. I've
also had many of the other local owners that have also upgraded to
HID's ask me to help them with the fine tuning of the adjustment as
well, which I've always gladly done. After doing some normal driving
with nearly all of these cars after the adjustment was done to make
sure that the light was not offensive to others while driving. I'll
honestly say that we have taken this point very seriously since we
have all been blinded by others that basically don't care if they
blind any other drivers on the road or not, just as long as they have
the bragging rights from having HID's in their cars.

A perfect example of this was a just recently seen POS E28 5-series
of the $50 variety driven by some punk kid. He had HID's installed in
it though with the original E28 headlights that basically created a
complete white out situation as he approached me. Then I'm fortunate
enough to get a double dose of the bright blast since he spots that
I'm driving an M5 and comes up alongside of me to give me a thumbs up
just as he decides to impress me with the power of his gold 528e with
an automatic. You may also wonder why I had also mentioned that it
was gold in color. Well, maybe he'll come across someone out there
that will be impressed with that nice brand new ///M5 badge on the
trunk lid and the HID's.

Whatever any of you ultimately decide is the right lighting upgrade
to meet your actual needs, be sure to take the time doing the needed
research so that you fully understand both what you are buying, and
that it is the right product for your specific application.
Everything that I've written here comes directly from the research
that I had personally done prior to even thinking about looking for
the two HID kits for my M5's. All of the mistakes that are made with
after-market HID's are simply due to someone going out to buy any HID
kit that they come across. As I have said for a few years now, all
HID kits are not equal, buy a kit that only includes reputable name
brand components, and verify that the components are what you are
told they are. You can do this by going to the website for the actual
manufacturers of the individual components contained within a
specific HID kit. Just because a component had the word Phillips
stamped on it, does not mean that it is a genuine Phillips product.
Most of those out there selling the kits today are likely to know
less about their products than you do yourself at this point.

After I basically wrote all of this from memory, I realized that I
obviously know much more than I will ever need to know about HID's.
Especially since I've had them in the two M5's for roughly two plus
years now. However, If this helps some of you out that are currently
debating about doing the HID upgrade by answering some of your
questions or concerns, it was then worth the effort.

BTW, there is much information on this exact topic located in the
archives within the group. It has come up every six months or so
going all the way back to '00, perhaps even beyond. It always gets
kicked around until there are no more signs of life remaining in it,
then it fades away until the next person comes along and posts "any
suggestions for HID's?" Then it all begins all over again. Oddly
enough, there always seem to be very few that actually the upgrade to
HID's.

If you want to see a pic of my HID's compared to the stock 9006
(candles) many of you are still using, just go to the files section
here. I had uploaded a pic of both mine and Kevin Kelly's Alpine
white M5's a while back when they were sitting in my driveway.
Perhaps that will literally shed some additional light on the
benefits of upgrading to HID's.

Regards,

Ken Little
www.bayaream5s.com

'91 M5 Mauritius Blue
'91 M5 Alpine White

[lino]

Thanks Shifty for that huge post! That's a great start for me. I read it once and I'm going to have to read it again.

[L_N_Love]

The last word is that the 7" are bright but the Cibie CSRs are twice as bright and pull only 55 amps. They are super efficient. Thats what i RUN. Check Daniel Stern Lighting

[Evan]

just to add an opinion to the discussion, I have the hella h4's with silvania silverstars in them and I absolutely love them! They are more than enough for the mostly city driving that I do.....and even on the country roads that I ocasionally drive, I have never needed my high beams.....last time I checked, I think my drivers side high beam was burnt out. Anyway, thumbs up for hella h4's.