S 50 powered 1986 535

[NHM635CSI]

UPDATE November 17:
I've turned over the marketing of this car to the man who built it: Mario Langsten and Vintage Sports and Racing. Please check out the "Cars For Sale" section on his website vsr1.com for further info. Feel free to continue to contact me about this car, as well as Mario. Thanks!! -George


I never thought it would happen, but it has...I've fallen in love with another car!! A 2002 Audi S8. Sadly though, that means that my beloved 535 has to go in order to make room for the new car. The car was built entirely by Mario Langsten and Vintage Sports and Racing in Bow, NH starting in June '08. I have $40,000 in invoices!! I've put around 15,000 miles on it. Anyway, there's probably too much to list in this ad, but briefly:

-S 50 motor and transmission from a 1995 M3 (Schrick cams, ecu, S52 headers, 3.5" Euro MAF, new clutch / flywheel, had something like 60,000 miles on it), M5 airbox

-B and B muffler and custom stainless exhaust with hi flow cats

-3.73 gears

-Suspension: Dinan springs, Racing Dynamics swaybars, KMAC fully adjustable rear suspension, 17 x 8 ASA wheels with 225-45-17 Dunlop Direzas, etc.

-Body: front and rear Euro bumpers, Euro headlights (clear and yellow highs, non working set of wipers), Euro M5 flares, Euro M5 front valance, Zender rear spoiler, trunk mounted battery

-Interior: Pearl Beige electric sport seats, crack free dash, oil pressure and water temp gauges where ash tray was

-Replaced in last two years: radiator, clutch slave cyl., subframe bushings, lower control arm, center link, tie rods, pitman arm, 7 series control arm bushings, fuse box, right side half shaft, rebuilt left side cv's

This car is EXTREMELY entertaining to drive!!!!! Perfectly balanced, very quick and stable. It's been my nice weather daily driver for the past two years and I've smiled through every mile...but using my old Land Rover for bad weather / winter driving has taken it's toll on my back (after 300,000 miles and 15 years!). My new S8 will fit the bill for a year 'round fun daily driver. I'm keeping the Rover, I have two fun cars for my entertainment, and my S8 is my new four door daily driver...that leaves my hot rod 535 as the odd man out. Breaks my heart to sell it, but it has to be.

I'm prepared to take the financial hit in order to move it to a good home.

I'll listen to all offers, and answer all questions.

-George

UPDATE.....UPDATE.....UPDATE:

Well, several people have emailed me asking for a more detailed explanation of what was done to the car...so here goes:

I first saw a Euro converted 535 at Vintage Sports and Racing while they were rebuilding the motor in my '85 M635...I knew I had to have one!! I was ready to replace my daily driver at that point, so I figured why not! I bought the 535 from a guy in Florida in 09/2007. It was a stock US 535 with a maroon interior, comfort seats, and fake wood overlays on all control surfaces on the dash!!! Yeah, it was gonna change!!

I shipped it to Mario / VSR the day after it arrived to begin its Euro conversion. Mario found a nice set of used Euro lights and grilles, and bought new front and rear bumpers, new Euro M5 front valance, new MTECH fender flares.

The next part of the build was the suspension. This consisted of Racing Dynamics swaybars front and rear, Dinan springs, 3.73 limited slip. The car already had a new set of Bilstein shocks, so these were retained. Also at this time the pitman arm and control arm bushings were replaced (with 7 series control arm bushings). Also picked up a new set of 17x8 ASA wheels. I haven't been totally happy with the quality of their clearcoat on the polished lips, which is beginning to flake off in spots (see pics). But for the price, they're great.

Also finally replaced that horrible interior with Pearl Beige Recaro sport seats (electric), rear bench, door cards. And replaced the wood covered control surfaces with the correct ones.

Just for the sake of continuity, my original plan was to keep the stock motor, so numerous other mods were taking place at this time as well. No need to go into all of them because that motor was replaced with the S50. The only things pertinent out of all that work was the addition of a B&B muffler / tailpipe, hi flow metallic substrate cats, and some custom work from the manifolds back to the muffler (all stainless). Also at this time was the replacement of the fuse box with a brand new one.

All of the above took place in 2007. Lets move on to 2008, shall we!!

I had been driving the car with the stock motor and taking car of several problems, including the replacement of the radiator. I soon realized that it just wasn't enough fun, so I began talking to Mario about my options. In June he told me that a customer of his was replacing his S50 with something else, and was I interested in it? Of course I was!! The motor came complete with Schrick cams, ECU, 3.5" Euro MAF, S52 headers, transmission. I think I remember him saying that it had 60K miles, but I'm not sure.

Now the real project started...New Sachs clutch, slave cylinder, UUC transmission mounts with enforcer kit, lengthened the driveshaft, M5 airbox, moved battery to trunk, M50 front sump oil pan, TMS ews delete chip for the S50 engine, fabricate motor mounts, re-fabricate part of the exhaust to mate up with the headers, fabricate "crash frame" around oil pan, adapt heater hoses to fit, adapt ac hoses to fit, new serpentine belt, oil pressure and water temp gauges added to where ash tray was, O2 sensors.

I drove it for the rest of the year and had a ball!! Lets move on to 2009:

By 05/2009 it was time for another change. This time the stock rear spoiler was replaced with the Zender spoiler and all the trim was blacked out. At this point, I was sick of looking at my cracked dash, so a nice crack free unit was found and installed. Also replaced front rotors and pads. Installed KMAC fully adjustable rear suspension in order to optimize rear suspension alignment.

Enjoyed it for the rest of the year!! And now, 2010:

New tie rods, lower control arm, rear subframe mounts, new right half shaft / cv's, rebuilt / repacked left side cv's, new boots, replaced high pressure power steering hose.

And that's it.....

PRICE: $12,000 obo

EMAIL: thebeachcomber@comcast.net






















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[rlomba8204]

I don't know what your car is worth but I would not sell it for an Audi A8/S8. Reliability wise it would be cheaper and less painful to remove your big toe nail with a pliers. Audis are beautiful cars, but everyone I know with them never buys a second. Stick with BMW, a newer one, or if you have a need for something new try MB.

[wkohler]

That looks like a very clean swap. I had seen a couple of teasers of this car before and it looks very nice! Are those ASA wheels?

[dunnojack]

I'm sorry for this is not a question about purchasing the car... I'm currently looking into doing this swap myself. I've already gotten the donor car parts, but the one that really makes me scratch my head is how to mount this setup to our subframe. I'd love to see if you have some documented pics. Thank you for your time and GLWS!

[NHM635CSI]

wkohler: Hey Chris!! Hope all is well!! Thanks, Mario and his crew really did a nice job on this car! First rate all the way!! And yes, those are ASA wheels. Want to laugh...I almost sent you a PM asking for advice on how to post pics on here, but I finally figured it out!! Took a couple of hours, but I figured it out!! hahaha

rlomba8204: I appreciate the input, thanks! I'm aware of the issues with the S8. The one I bought was purchased new by a friend of mine for his wife. It was driven sedately and was perfectly maintained. I doubt I would've bought one on the open market.

dunnojack: When I get some spare time I can put the car up on my lift and take some pics for you if you like. As I mentioned in the ad, I didn't do any of the work myself so that's about all I can do for you...sorry!!

[T_C_D]

...so how does the $21,000-$22,000 range sound???

There are very few e28s worth that kind of money. I would suggest yours is worth in the 10-12 grand range if the car is really nice.

[TodB]

Mario told me about your car. Any HP or torque #s from the engine as modified?

And I agree with Todd. Though you have sunk serious $ into the car and no doubt done well by Mario, you'll be hard pressed to get what you are asking for it. That's above low mile M5 prices and your car will not appreciate as some expect the M5 to do.

Frankly, I'd keep it (you know you'll miss it). The Audi must seem "sterile" to drive compared to how you have this E28 set up. Depends what you are looking for, I guess.

Good luck!

[NHM635CSI]

Thanks for the input T_C_D and TodB! I was actually told to price it between 15 and 18 by someone who should know....I just added a bit more to get to a starting point, fully expecting to get knocked down to that range. Do you think that's the wrong way to do it?? Will a potential buyer see 20 grand and not even attempt to get me to lower the price?? Maybe I should lower it now before I scare a potential buyer away??

You're right, TodB, I'm definitely going to miss it!! Luckily I have a couple of fun toys to help me keep my mind off of it though...an '85 M635 and a '77 911 Carrera 3.0...both seriously modified and seriously fun!

In it's own way, the S8 is almost as fun. Handles like it's on rails and wicked fast...with the stereo on and in any weather year 'round!! Unlike the 535 which has to be parked for the winter forcing me to use my old Land Rover for winter duty...which my back no longer approves of!!

Believe me, it breaks my heart to sell this car! It's exactly what I wanted...and it still is...I just don't have the room. I'm hoping somebody local buys it so I can have visitation rights!

[rlomba8204]

rlomba8204: I appreciate the input, thanks! I'm aware of the issues with the S8. The one I bought was purchased new by a friend of mine for his wife. It was driven sedately and was perfectly maintained. I doubt I would've bought one on the open market.

That's good to know and I wish you the best with the car. But be aware that the reliability issues with the A8/S8 have little to do with maintenance. They are plain old quality control problems. So sure, abuse and neglect will exacerbate the number of problems you see with any car as it ages, but they won't rectify quality control issues with the various components in the car. I am not just pulling this info out of my rear -- a friend is a tech at a large euro-brand car dealer and the techs won't touch the big Audis second hand. They'll drive E32s, E34s, E39s, E38s, Mercedes 124s and 210s, but not A6s or A8s. That should tell you something.

As I said, I don't want to sound like a nay-sayer. Audi makes some of the most beautiful cars on the road. The A5/S5 is stunning, for one. And I've always been a fan of the S4/A4, but at a distance for the same reason. And as an enthusiast, it frustrating to me that these issues seem to be so long lived. But if I had an e28 powered by an S50 installed by Mario Langsten, there's no way in God's good earth I'd sell it for anything with four circles on the grill.

But fwiw, I think your e28 looks like a fantastic car. What price it will bring is up to the market. Be patient, clean it up to the max, and price it realistically and you will get a buyer. In my opinion, that car with an S50 is a nicer car -- for a driver, not a collector -- than an M5 with comparable mileage. It's a more reliable, more driveable, and less maintenance intensive powertrain, and the power is close.

Good luck with the sale. Get the ad into as many enthusiast venues as possible. And heck it should probably go on bring-a-trailer too.

[Dana R]

Amen to all the advice offered so far, and now I'll add my 2 cents. Get as much information out there on the car as you can, particularly about the cosmetic condition, which you don't even mention. I know it's a nice conversion, but $35-40k is outrageous if it doesn't include a lot more than you are telling us, so I'd venture a guess that there's a lot more to know about all the new parts, paintwork, custom exhaust, etc. that would enhance to perceived value of your car.

I recently considered buying a very nice automatic 528e, and having this S50 conversion done, and it was going to cost about $6000 beyond the cost of the engine including labor at a shop that does a lot of e30 conversions, FWIW.

[skip535i]

This is a beautiful car.

I gotta agree though, it's a bastardized frankenstein creation. While a ton of fun, and tastefully done...that doesn't necessarily mean it's value is higher than a stock, low-milage M5. GLWS, God knows you'll drum up some interest, but I doubt anything serious at 21k.

[NHM635CSI]

Hey everybody!

Thanks for all of the input!! That's why I love it around here!! You guys were all helpful while the car was being put together (especially you, Chris!)...and that's why I'll still be around here when the car is gone.

I guess I should've taken my time and written out the full list of everything that was done instead of the summary that I wrote. I honestly thought it would be too much to write and I'd get crap for it!

I've also been told to get the car detailed and post more pics...which I'll do as soon as I can find time. I'll also get some pics of the interior after it's all cleaned up. My girlfriend just gave me back my camera (after two weeks of asking) and I really just wanted to get the ad out there. All I did was wash it.

Maybe I'm making these mistakes because I really don't want to sell it!!!

Thanks everybody!!

[cactusjacks1]

The converted cars are very fun to drive, have quite a bit more horsepower than original - generally get better mileage - are cleaner emission wise & the engine is more efficient.

They are the German "hot rod". I don't think there is a single person that had a hot rod built, that did it with the intention of making $$, especially those that had them built by the Boyd Coddington's & Chip Foose's of the world. Mario, Rui Azevedo, Two Guy's Automotive etc. are the Coddingtons & Foose's of the BMW world. There is more conversions going on with 525's, E30's & E30'm3's than ever before & it's not just the newer M50/52/54 & S50/52/54 motors being used but the BMW V8's, LS 1's, 4.6 & 5.0 Fords.

It costs a lot of $$ & unfortunately there is very little return on that investment. As a general rule, conversions done to E30M3's are selling for less than a nicely done original car. Converted E30's are a lot less than they were 2 years ago with many in the mid 4 digit range. There is not enough data on converted e28's to show a resale range & that makes it more difficult for both a buyer & seller.

Award winning hot rods built 10 years ago at a cost of $150,000 - $250,000 can be found selling today at 25%-30% of what it cost to build them. The converted E28 is not taking that severe of a hit but it's still a very upside down equation. It's a very nice car & GLWS.

[L_N_Love]

Just let NH post the car for sale and omit the commentary. The market will take care of the rest.

(Edit) Well, I guess he did ask for questions.

[///MARINE]

This car is a winner. It looks good and I bet it performs amazingly. The E28 is one of the coolest sedans ever built and the S50 is one of the most reliable high performance engines BMW has ever built. Good luck with the sale.

[NHM635CSI]

Thanks ///Marine!!!

Yeah, it really is a great car!! Spent a lot of time getting it just the way I wanted it....the performance and looks are perfect in my opinion. But I can't believe how much I've fallen in love with that S8 I bought!! It's breaking my heart to sell this car...but I just don't have the room. The right person is going to get one great ride!!

Hmmmm....I bet it would look good in your garage!!!

Update for everybody: I'm having Mario / VSR repaint the sunroof. After that I'll get it detailed and take some more pics.

Anyway...thanks for the nice words ///Marine!!

-George

[cfalco]

I wish I had been more hip to this type of conversion. I would have done my 528e in a heartbeat and left the "528e" badge on the trunk lid. Perfect sleeper. That being said I do love that m5. Your car looks great and I bet it's a blast to drive with all the benefits of the later engine. GLWS and enjoy it in the meantime.

[dunnojack]

just wondering if you ever got a chance to get some pics of the way the engine is mounted to the car... Trying to see if i can make some mounts before actually getting the motor in there and then having to do it...

Henry

[NHM635CSI]

UPDATE: I've been hoping to find the time to get the car professionally detailed before I posted more pics, but my new job is keeping me really busy. I've had several people email me asking for more detailed pics...especially the undercarriage. I'll take these pics over the weekend (or sooner) and post them asap.

I promise that the car will be professionally detailed prior to sending it to the new owner!

Thanks for the interest everybody!

-George

[Kenny Blankenship]

As for the price...I had been told that I should ask 15-18 grand for it...and I guess that's what I should've put. I just thought that adding a little bit to that range wouldn't hurt and would be a good starting point. I'll lower the price to where it should be after I post this message.

If you haven't done so you may want to consider looking at pricing of the E30s that have done such a conversion. They pop up on Bimmerforums every so often.

[rlomba8204]

Just let NH post the car for sale and omit the commentary. The market will take care of the rest.

(Edit) Well, I guess he did ask for questions.

I just saw this, and it's a fair point even though the original poster did ask for feedback, as you said. Hopefully my commentary wasn't dick-ish. I think this looks like a great car, even though it is difficult to value. But I wish the seller good luck with the sale and hopefully it goes to a good home -- hopefully that came through on the posts. If I had a third garage bay, I'd be finding out what a true market value on this kind of car is. And I hope we see more pictures, even if it is just car porn for us addicts . . . .

[NHM635CSI]

Nobody is being "dick-ish" or anything else for that matter! I welcome all...or mostly all (!!!) comments!!

I finally have some free time today, so I'm going to clean it up a bit and take some more pics...stay tuned!!

Happy 4th of July everybody!

-George

[NHM635CSI]

I am frustrated beyond belief!!!! I spent the entire day detailing the car and taking pictures of it. I THINK I've uploaded 45 pics onto the mye28 uploader....but I can't seem to be able to put them into this post!!! I've read the instructions, and I did it when I first wrote this ad...but I must be missing something!! I've sat here for almost 2 hours doing this!!!!!! I give up!!! If someone can tell me what to do, or just plain help me out, you have no idea how much I'd appreciate it!!! The pics are in the uploader, and they're named 1.jpg.JPG, 2.jpg.JPG.....all the way to 47.jpg.JPG. They're the newest pics on there, so they're at the very end ... at least they are now, I have no idea what will happen to them after I log off. I hate computers!!

I'm done for the day...I need a drink!! I'll try to work on this again on Monday.

Have a great 4th everybody!!

[Justin_FL]

Added your pics to the first post.

[NHM635CSI]

Justin_FL...You're my hero!!!!! I can't thank you enough for doing that for me!!!!! I don't know what I was doing wrong. Those first four pics I posted when I first wrote the ad were the first ones I've done on here...and I must've guessed right when I was adding them. I don't know what happened yesterday though.

It's funny...I woke up this morning and was dreading the fact that I had to sit in front of my computer and try to figure this out all over again!! But now I don't have to!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH Justin_FL !!!!!!!!!!!

Have a great 4th everybody!!!

[austin8753]

Where did you purchase your euro bumpers? How much did they cost? Really would love some for mine for a good price A little wishful thinking never hurt anyone...

[NHM635CSI]

Hi austin8753-

The shop that did the conversion got them for me new. Don't remember where they came from but they were pretty expensive. Keep your eyes on the classifieds here, used ones pop up from time to time.

Or buy my car, the work is already done!

-George

[austin8753]

I've been looking on here for a little while, but was just curious as to where yours came from.

As much as I like your car, I've got my own project that I've just started in on and no money LOL.

Good luck with your sale. That's a badass car and someone will really enjoy it.

[NHM635CSI]

Hey austin8753-

Good luck with your car! It's definitely worth building a fun e28....done right, it's such an entertaining car to drive!! That's what makes this car so hard to sell!! Luckily I have two other fun cars to play with, and my S8 is proving to be the perfect daily driver....fun AND drivable through all four seasons. Believe me, if I had the room, I'd be keeping it.

-George

[NHM635CSI]

Damn!!! I go away for a couple of days and come back hoping to find a message about the car, but what do I find instead?? I find that I'm pushed back to the second page!!!