T-build.SHE'S ALIVE!!!!!!!

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 12, 2011 5:08 PM

Brad D. wrote:I am really sorry to hear that this is the result of your hard work. I think most of us have been there are one point or another. It sucks and it's hard to bounce back from.

It sounds like the e28 was your main transportation. At this stage it would suck to sell off the whole project. Is there any means to pick up a cheap beater to drive in the mean time and fix the e28 as time and money permits?

Yeah its my dd. I've had it since 2002 and its taken me thru some hard times.
She has been great to me over the years which makes this even harder.
Wow, I sound like a bitch.
I've been looking for a beater but my occupation requires a bit of travel so I'd need something reliable.
Reliable and beater aren't synonomous.

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 12, 2011 6:45 PM

I've built a motor with a cracked head. Thats the suck. Just recently I put a motor together in the dead of winter in 20 degree weather that ended up dropping five valves and trashing the entire engine. Still not sure if I mistimed it or if something got into the timing case during cranking. Its not possible to mistime an M20 that badly, but you never know really. I'm still working on getting it back on the road seven months later.

It doesn't hurt to put it aside until you have the time to deal with it. Shit happens.

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 13, 2011 8:45 PM

OK
Now that I have mellowed out a little I need to ask this:
Should I just replace the head or an entire b34.
The whole low compression issue has me a little worried.
I've located a good b34 head not too far away but I'd rather have set of "competent" hands onboard to help with the install.

This is a Wrenchfest SOS.
What will it take to get someone here to help me out, or for me to do the helping?

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 13, 2011 8:47 PM

Pull the head before you buy parts. Check those pistons.

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 13, 2011 8:55 PM

turbodan wrote:Pull the head before you buy parts. Check those pistons.

What could have possibly gone wrong?

I overheated the car, it lost power, I pulled over and had it towed home.
I test compression and had good #s at about 130psi on 1and 6 but 2-5 were in the crapper.
I was even able to move it before I pulled the head.
Could the e23 745 head be so different that the compression #s would be that far off?
I'd like to be able to bolt the new head on and get the old girl running.

So when looking at the pistons, what as I looking for.
Remember this is my first time inside an m30.

I've worked too hard for this to walk away now.....

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 13, 2011 9:27 PM

Wasn't the engine mis-timed? Cam 90 degrees off? Something like that?

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 13, 2011 9:31 PM

turbodan wrote:Wasn't the engine mis-timed? Cam 90 degrees off? Something like that?

Yes it most certainly was.
I'm just trying to understand thats all.
If the valves were bent from the 1st crank, which was 90deg out of time, what effect would that have on compression.

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 13, 2011 9:34 PM

Bent valves would cause low compression and high leakdown. Broken valves would cause no compression and holes in your pistons.

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 13, 2011 9:42 PM

turbodan wrote:Bent valves would cause low compression and high leakdown. Broken valves would cause no compression and holes in your pistons.

OK. Thanks. Now I understand.
I know its all connected on the inside, but I just wanted to know all the symptoms "could" be.
Now I know what to look for.
I may pull the head tomorrow and take a look.

Again, please excuse my ignorance.
I look to you and the many others who know far more than I to guide me thru this fog.

clongo · Post by **clongo** » Jul 14, 2011 8:25 AM

If you still need help in late august I'll be more than happy to give you a hand. I'll need some help unloading the moving truck. Maybe we can work something out

amturbev · Post by **amturbev** » Jul 14, 2011 1:14 PM

Just went through your whole thread and I have to stop in and say a word of encouragement. This kind of failure in a build is what makes success so so sweet in the end. This is the experience that teaches you the ins and outs of this engine. You started this project because you wanted a challenge and a learning experience, with an end result of the satisfaction that you did this work and you are having a blast driving it. It happened, unfortunately, that this project ended being a greater challenge than you realized, but this is just one stop along the road for you. As someone earlier said, it is just mechanical, it can be fixed. Stick it out and attack that thing with a new determination. We know you can do it. Like you said, youve worked to hard to walk away now. You would forever regret it and think of this car with a sour taste in your mouth. Don't let that happen!

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 14, 2011 1:32 PM

Thanks gents for all the positivety.
I just needed a few days to chill out and figure things out.
I know just need to figure the repairs into my budget......

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 15, 2011 5:12 PM

So I spoke with the machine shop about the timing issue and they told me to pull the head and bring it in so they can look it over and see what they can do for me.
I really want to use this head because of the b35 cam.
It would be a waste on money not to use it since I'm pulling the head anyway.
They are also going to replace the 2 rocker arms.
So Monday afternoon the head will be pulled off and dropped to them tuesday morning.
If I'm lucky I'll get it back by Friday.

They will also inspect the valves which I feel with be shot.
I'm going to bring them my b34 head also so if the valve are indeed shot, they can put the b35 cam into my b34 head and resurface that head.

So here we go again, go around #2.
Pray for me.....

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 16, 2011 7:50 PM

Quick question.
I'm going to pull the head and have the shop look it over.
If I'm able to use it still, can I use the same hg?
Its the same head and the car was never started.

Xenocide · Post by **Xenocide** » Jul 16, 2011 8:55 PM

No, the HG was crushed when you torqued the bolts. Just the headgasket itself isn't terribly expensive though.

Patrick McHugh · Post by **Patrick McHugh** » Jul 16, 2011 11:23 PM

Here's the best way to make sure you have the head timed at least close to right... Before you put the head on, rotate it until BOTH cam lobes on cyl #1 are not engaging the rockers, both valves will now be closed (it will be just like it is when you check the valve clearances.) Then do what the bentley says in regards to the holes and such. Line up the TDC marks on the dampener and piston #1 will be all the way up. Then put the head on and you will be very close. Tweak as necessary, put the chain on and rotate the engine by hand in the normal direction (use the fan to see what way that is) at least 2 times.

Even if your pistons have small marks on them they will still be OK. Check the timing chain and tensioner, make sure it looks complete and then put it all together. Don't quit, once you feel the turbo charged M30 kick you in the butt you'll be glad you didn't sell it all!

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 17, 2011 9:02 AM

I am absolutely going to give it another go!
If I'm lucky next weekend we will have fire.

ceebee9 · Post by **ceebee9** » Jul 18, 2011 10:37 AM

grey ghost wrote:I am absolutely going to give it another go!
If I'm lucky next weekend we will have fire.

thats what i like to hear buddy...don't stop til that fat bitch is choking. lol!

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 18, 2011 9:58 PM

Got the head back off, and the pistons have a little evidence of contact with the valves but nothing I think I need to worry about.
What do you think?
I'll be dropping both heads off and some rocker arms so I can start all over.
If I'm lucky I'll get it back on Friday, but I doubt it.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Jul 18, 2011 10:50 PM

Buy some Seafoam Deep Creep and clean those pistons off.

Let it soak and just wipe them off.

You have at least 10 damaged valves.

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Jul 18, 2011 11:59 PM

^^^ +1. You really expect there to be compression when your valves have slammed into your pistons hard enough to leave indentations? Seafoam it and replace the valves as well.

shocka · Post by **shocka** » Jul 19, 2011 8:14 AM

At that time he probably couldn't see the pistons, you know with the head being on and all. Shit happens. Im glad your pushing on, it'll make that first fire up all the more satisfying.

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Jul 19, 2011 9:25 AM

shocka wrote:At that time he probably couldn't see the pistons, you know with the head being on and all. Shit happens. Im glad your pushing on, it'll make that first fire up all the more satisfying.

Obviously. My comment was directed toward his statement that he would be dropping off the head with some rocker arms. If contact between pistons and valves was violent enough to break at least two rocker arms it would lead one to question whether there is additional damage throughout the valve train, such as the valves which transmitted the shock to the rockers... Following the prior mistake who would want to pull the head a second time due to low compression, etc...? Not I.

skip535i · Post by **skip535i** » Jul 19, 2011 9:57 AM

Damn! And that was just from cranking!

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Jul 19, 2011 10:00 AM

skip535i wrote:Damn! And that was just from cranking!

I believe he pulled it around with another car trying to pull start it.

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 19, 2011 12:14 PM

Duke wrote:
skip535i wrote:Damn! And that was just from cranking!
I believe he pulled it around with another car trying to pull start it.

Nope, never pulled the car, that was from cranking with the timing off 90 degrees.
I broke the rocker arms after I corrected the timing, how I don't know.
I guess I should have readjusted the valves after I corrected the timing.
I also did not turn the motor by hand after the timing correction.
My fault and I am paying the price.

The intake valves are definitely bent. The exhaust valves may have been spared. I'll know later on taday.
I've also dropped off all the spare parts they will need to get me back to ground zero.

This time I'll get it right!
I've also re-read the bently procedure a few times since and feel I should be spot on with the #2 try.

SilverBullet · Post by **SilverBullet** » Jul 20, 2011 8:30 AM

The pics aren't as good as seeing it in the flesh, but I'd be inclined to replace those pistons! Looks like they may have taken a fair wack, and the last thing that you want under boost is the piston cracking and destroying the engine, especially after all the effort you've put in. Lucky you guys can pick up motors pretty cheap, unlike here

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 20, 2011 9:44 PM

It'd be nice to replace the bottom end, but theres very little chance of anything being damaged. Not worth the effort or expense IMO.

Replace all 12 valves. I'm sure the exhaust valves are bent as well.

ceebee9 · Post by **ceebee9** » Jul 21, 2011 3:05 PM

ANY IDEA WHEN THE HEAD WILL BE READY AT THIS POINT? By or after tomorrow?

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 21, 2011 3:07 PM

ceebee9 wrote:ANY IDEA WHEN THE HEAD WILL BE READY AT THIS POINT? By or after tomorrow?

They said Friday but there was a v12 jag ahead of me that was holding things up.
I'll send you a text this evening.

MyE28.com

MyE28.com

T-build.SHE'S ALIVE!!!!!!!