So, I got a ticket the other day.

Fuel · Post by **Fuel** » Mar 11, 2012 11:20 AM

And I believe it is complete crap. I got off work, (I work at the mall), and was pulled over a half a mile down the road. The officer told me that I had ran a stop sign- and at that moment my reaction was "What stop sign?". Well, after figuring which one I possibly ran, I told him it wasn't a stop sign.

He came back a couple minuets later with my golden ticket to the ball. I just wanted to see if anyone has another take on this- from what I can find online; a stop sign must be on the right side of you to apply to you and there was no stop line either.

Here are some pics.

That stop sign has an "All Stop" on it now too.

I know it doesn't make it right (if I'm in the wrong), but I have ~20 min of video of no one stopping there.

Input is appreciated!

/end rant

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Mar 11, 2012 11:23 AM

No white line ='s no Stop.

waynet1 · Post by **waynet1** » Mar 11, 2012 11:35 AM

If it were my first time going through that intersection I would most likely ALMOST stop.
There is no stop line. If anything I would expect to see a yeild sign. However saying that, in what I can see there is not a merge into another lane so I say GO.
PS: I have not had a moving violation in over 25 years and I do a LOT of miles in the old girl.

slimdevil27 · Post by **slimdevil27** » Mar 11, 2012 11:42 AM

That's BS..there is not even a need to yield as that turns into it's own lane and remains that way for 30 feet or more! And as clearly evidenced on the other turn at that intersection, the one above the semi, there is no white stop line, as opposed to the other turn which very clearly is intended as a stop.

I would take those photos to the DOT and request a written clarification, if it's against you then don't use it in court, obviously, but seeing how it's their responsibility to clearly mark traffic signs, they should be informed of it. And you can at least tell the judge that you contacted them stating the over sight/ unclear traffic situation. If they side with the photos and your interpretation then you are golden. Request also that the Cop be informed of it Proactive is always a good thing.

What a load of crap.

Fuel · Post by **Fuel** » Mar 11, 2012 11:52 AM

This is also on private property and none of the stop sign have a sticker on the back of them showing them as being approved by the city.

Motronic · Post by **Motronic** » Mar 11, 2012 12:24 PM

I'd challenge the ticket. Cops are not always 100% in the right, they can make errors in judgement like the rest of us.
But in Massachusetts to fight a ticket you have to first pay a "court fee" to challenge a ticket making it less desirable for someone to challenge one. A lose/lose situation. The government says we have to pick up some of the cost to have an officer present in court.

I hope that's not the case in Tennessee.

http://www.mass.gov/courts/courtsandjud ... gfees.html

AT8M5 · Post by **AT8M5** » Mar 11, 2012 1:05 PM

First, I agree with the above replies, no line no stop, and you have your own lane to turn into for Pete's sake!

Second, how in the heck can you get a ticket on private property? I thought that's why mall cops patrol them.

Third, off topic, your taxes already pay for the officers, how in the hell did that law pass in Mass.?

Karl

1st 5er · Post by **1st 5er** » Mar 11, 2012 1:12 PM

I agree that it's not a stop situation based on the markings.
Fight it.
In a city the size of Chattanooga do the cops show up when the court date is reset?
They don't in Houston.

Bimmerguy2002 · Post by **Bimmerguy2002** » Mar 11, 2012 3:47 PM

Take those pics with you to court, open and shut case.
Also if any of you ever get pulled over, NEVER admit guilt, you legally do not have to talk to the officer.

davintosh · Post by **davintosh** » Mar 11, 2012 5:20 PM

Bimmerguy2002 wrote:Take those pics with you to court, open and shut case.

Yup, this. The cop is a bozo for even pulling you over, more so for writing the ticket. He probably won't even show up for your time in court; here that's an automatic Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card.

Bimmerguy2002 wrote:Also... you legally do not have to talk to the officer.

If you wish to create a hostile situation between you and the cop, do this.

You don't have to admit you did anything wrong -- in fact it's better if you don't -- but being congenial & shooting the breeze with a cop has gotten me out of more than several sticky situations.

oldskool · Post by **oldskool** » Mar 11, 2012 5:49 PM

davintosh wrote:
Bimmerguy2002 wrote:Take those pics with you to court, open and shut case.
being congenial & shooting the breeze with a cop has gotten me out of more than several sticky situations.

I totally lost it last time I got a ticket. It was for a red light that turned red as I was in the intersection. Not warranted and I was not pleased to say the least. Johnny Law decided to follow me on down the road for grins so I made a point of signaling all intentions with my arm out the window. I'm glad I've matured a bit.

Post by **mooseheadm5** » Mar 11, 2012 5:53 PM

oldskool wrote: I'm glad I've matured a bit.

You mean the you we know is mature you?

AT8M5 · Post by **AT8M5** » Mar 11, 2012 6:10 PM

mooseheadm5 wrote:
oldskool wrote: I'm glad I've matured a bit.
You mean the you we know is mature you?

After looking at the arial pic again, it appears there is a white line in the NW curve turn lane. If they wanted you to stop the way you were going, they effed up and forgot it!

Just recently I got pulled over for supposedly not having insurance. My plate was NVN954. The offender it turns out was some chic up in Apache Junction with the plate NLN954. The cop up there made the L look like my V.

I had my plates taken off and destroyed on the spot, even though I had proof of insuance! So much for innocent until proven guilty!!!

I get to court, "Oh, your case has been dismissed." Yeah, but what about my wasted time getting new plates at the MVD! End rant.

Karl

Bimmerguy2002 · Post by **Bimmerguy2002** » Mar 11, 2012 6:42 PM

davintosh wrote:If you wish to create a hostile situation between you and the cop, do this. You don't have to admit you did anything wrong -- in fact it's better if you don't -- but being congenial & shooting the breeze with a cop has gotten me out of more than several sticky situations.

FWIW, whenever i have been polite to any officer, they always have an attitude, its not ME, its THEM. I was pulled over about a year ago i think, this colored cop asked me why my license was suspended....SEVEN years ago for only half a year. Seriously? It was none of his business and there was no reason for him to bring up something more than half a decade ago.
He completely lost his temper at how i wouldnt respond to him and was yelling like a drill sergeant, hilarious.

There is a reason they get defensive around me, they are INTIMIDATED and feel threatened and probably should be, they cannot act like a civilized being and deserve no respect. Most are just criminals with a badge, and ALWAYS have to be right and never wrong.

Fuel · Post by **Fuel** » Mar 11, 2012 6:46 PM

Thanks guys, I was planning on fighting it anyway. The funny part is one of the guys I work with knows the cop who gave me the ticket, and he told my friend that he had his "friend" check to see if it was a stop sign (there were two of them sitting in the mall parking lot together) and he said he buddy said it was.

I have to get off of work in order to go to court, I believe it is ridiculous that someone issue me a ticket AFTER I informed him that he assumed wrong, and I have to take a hit in income for the week in order to fight it.

My parents want to file a complaint against them, but I don't actually have a car that "blends in". So i feel like I would be causing more issues.

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Mar 11, 2012 8:37 PM

Fuel wrote:Thanks guys, I was planning on fighting it anyway. The funny part is one of the guys I work with knows the cop who gave me the ticket, and he told my friend that he had his "friend" check to see if it was a stop sign (there were two of them sitting in the mall parking lot together) and he said he buddy said it was.

I have to get off of work in order to go to court, I believe it is ridiculous that someone issue me a ticket AFTER I informed him that he assumed wrong, and I have to take a hit in income for the week in order to fight it.

My parents want to file a complaint against them, but I don't actually have a car that "blends in". So i feel like I would be causing more issues.

That's the thing, if they want to give you a hard time, they can give you a BS ticket that you beat. Except it still takes your time and trouble.

NoM54me · Post by **NoM54me** » Mar 11, 2012 9:01 PM

Bimmerguy, you must not know very many officers to assume that "most are criminals with badges". I'm an officer in Indianapolis, and have written only 5 tickets in the last 3 years...would you say that about me? Anywho, that the intersection is on private property is irrelevant. If it's "dedicated to public use" (as it's called here), like at a shopping center or anywhere virtually all traffic will be "public", the stop signs are enforceable. Also, that the stop sign is on the left of that lane and there were no stop lines might also be irrelevant. Better check your state's laws before you go to court, otherwise you could wind up with a judge sympathetic to the cop. Also, as far as "admitting guilt", most traffic offenses -like this one- are civil, not criminal, so "guilt" isn't involved. Insurance companies want you to clam up if you're in a collision, but even then, it doesn't always matter. In the end, it's really, really petty to write a ticket for what has happened here. Good luck, hope it comes out well for you!!

Bimmerguy2002 · Post by **Bimmerguy2002** » Mar 11, 2012 9:23 PM

NoM54me wrote:Bimmerguy, you must not know very many officers to assume that "most are criminals with badges". I'm an officer in Indianapolis, and have written only 5 tickets in the last 3 years...would you say that about me?

I dont know any officers, i choose not to associate with them, had very bad experiences with being harassed, given citations for something i didnt do (YES i was innocent, not one of those idiots who THINK they werent wrong), among other issues.
Its not about the numbers of tickets, i support giving tickets for those who break the law, but not for being innocent and being cited by young punk cops or a bully with a badge.
If a cop has a bad attitude, they are no different from someone who works at mcdonalds, they are still serving me and need to check their attitude if they want any kind of respect.
Tough job? Tough shit, nobody forced them to become a cop, dont take it out on others.
If you are a good cop, congrats, you either have some very good citizens that obey laws carefully or are laid back.

NoM54me · Post by **NoM54me** » Mar 11, 2012 9:30 PM

...I'm definitely laid back. I can't write a ticket for something I did on my way in to work. A bit hypocritical. I'm not the "typical" cop though..I support legalizing marijuana (so it can be taxed...), love "street art", and hate running off skateboarders and homeless people. There are plenty of cops with bad attitudes, but all they're doing is making the job infinitely more difficult than it needs to be.

oldskool · Post by **oldskool** » Mar 11, 2012 9:32 PM

Majority of my extended family were cops in Cincinnati, Ohio. They always carried a second pistol "just in case" their shooting wasn't justified. . .enough. Ankle holsters FTW.

C.R. Krieger · Post by **C.R. Krieger** » Mar 11, 2012 10:08 PM

The Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (as adopted in Tennessee) would say that's a through lane; not a stop. A sign is required to be placed to the right of the lane it controls. One on the left is optional, but does not control unless there is also one on the right. Ask any traffic engineer who's ever read the book.

Here's a start:

Here's more (a huge frickin' PDF): Read §6.4.1 Stop Lines

"Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) – The MUTCD is the basic guide for signing and marking. The requirements of the MUTCD must be met, as a minimum, on all roads in Tennessee."

wkohler · Post by **wkohler** » Mar 11, 2012 10:58 PM

The reason the lane on the top has a line is because that lane merges with an existing lane. The one the OP was using becomes it's own lane, therefore no reason to stop/yield.

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Mar 11, 2012 11:22 PM

NoM54me wrote:Anywho, that the intersection is on private property is irrelevant. If it's "dedicated to public use" (as it's called here), like at a shopping center or anywhere virtually all traffic will be "public", the stop signs are enforceable.

Really?:dunno: I know laws differ by state, but I'd always assumed if a sign was on private property it was unenforceable, ie a right turn only really meant they wanted you to only turn right, but had no legal authority to require it.

TheE28Ranch · Post by **TheE28Ranch** » Mar 11, 2012 11:22 PM

Krieger just sealed the deal for you, so it seems.

Last time I contested a traffic violation ticket was in Phoenix. The judge kicks off the hearing giving the cop who gave me a ticket a one-on-one chiding for not showing up the last time another person challenged a ticket in court. Once that discussion was out of the way, the judge asked some questions and the cop spoke of me with an air of disdain and disrespect, and then went on to lie about where he was when he spotted my infraction and how the situation went down. Straight up lied, in court, under oath, God bless America. (it's kinda complicated but the cop couldn't see me from where he was up on the highway I was entering and changed the story to being right behind me instead.) I saw the writing on the wall and just shook my head - his word against mine. I obviously lost and paid the ticket.

But your case looks pretty good. I look forward to hearing the end result - stick it to the Man!

NoM54me · Post by **NoM54me** » Mar 12, 2012 12:06 AM

Mike W. wrote:
NoM54me wrote:Anywho, that the intersection is on private property is irrelevant. If it's "dedicated to public use" (as it's called here), like at a shopping center or anywhere virtually all traffic will be "public", the stop signs are enforceable.
Really?:dunno: I know laws differ by state, but I'd always assumed if a sign was on private property it was unenforceable, ie a right turn only really meant they wanted you to only turn right, but had no legal authority to require it.

That's ordinarily true, like stop signs or speed limit signs in apartment complexes or other "private" roads or streets. Those are enforceable by the owner, as a "terms of use" sort of deal....you're not trespassing as long as you obey the signs and have a lawful right to be there. However, some privately-owned streets and roads may become public through adverse possession or dedication for public use by the owner, like at shopping centers and large housing developments, etc...the street signs are enforceable then. The owner usually also has a duty to maintain the street, including proper signage.

TheE28Ranch · Post by **TheE28Ranch** » Mar 12, 2012 12:15 AM

NoM54me gets my vote as "not a typical cop" judging by the character in his avatar!!

Nicke28 · Post by **Nicke28** » Mar 12, 2012 12:25 AM

Looks like you got pulled over by a dumbass cop. Houston has no shortage of them.

Take a picture of the intersection and print out that map to show the judge. Chances are he will drop it or at least reduce the fine.

Post by **Jeremy** » Mar 12, 2012 12:52 AM

It kinda depends on the situation. If the officer wants to write you a ticket for running a stop sign at the mall, he can because it's "public use". However, if some doofus rams your car in the mall parking lot, suddenly it's all "private property" and, "No, I won't fill out an accident report for this because it's not a public road." That last situation happened to me once. I've also had the same experience as Trey where I went to legitimately contest a ticket and the officer flat out lied to the judge about the situation, and also about the fundamental laws of physics and the Doppler effect. Then there was the officer that made up a new law on the spot so that the accident could be blamed on me, the out of state driver.

I have one friend from HS that became a cop and few female friends who married police officers. I like to believe they're not dicks on the job. Police officers are certainly not all bad, but the douches sure do give the profession a wicked reputation.

AT8M5 · Post by **AT8M5** » Mar 12, 2012 1:15 AM

C.R. you're the man! O/P, just print out what C.R. wrote along with your photos. It's like C.R. will be on your shoulder, like Kazoo.

Karl

djazz · Post by **djazz** » Mar 12, 2012 1:45 AM

I've been given a ticket for 53 in a 40 while the cruise control was set to the speed limit. (driving our bright red Z28) The other bike cop had the rav4 that had blown past me. I guess it was a two for one special.

My brother is a deputy and speeds more than I do. He also has to show his badge to get to his license. No ticket. Step-Dad was Chief of Detectives. He denied ANY cop could do wrong. I simply did not know the whole story.

A couple of cousins are small town LEOs. One is CHP. I even have a cousin I'm not allowed to recognize- not that I could.

The job attracts as many liars and cheats as it does honest people that care. A lot depends on the jurisdiction and those in charge.

Personally I answer questions, show respect, and save my story for the judge, if need be. I have a lawyer that deals with most situations.

MyE28.com

MyE28.com

So, I got a ticket the other day.

So, I got a ticket the other day.