T-build.SHE'S ALIVE!!!!!!!

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 07, 2011 9:31 PM

Yeah, I'm kinda bumbed out.
Not happy at all.
It was a lot of work getting here only to hit another road block.
And this time I don't even know what it is.......

I guess this is the slippery slope........

Jared S · Post by **Jared S** » Jul 08, 2011 1:52 PM

Before I tore my car apart, did megasquirt, turbo etc. I had a couple ECU's that wouldn't run the fuel pump, but worked fine otherwise. I pulled out the fuel pump relay, put a jumper wire in and the car would run. I know you said you have fuel, but I thought I would mention this problem I had.

itsbrokeagain · Post by **itsbrokeagain** » Jul 08, 2011 1:53 PM

Good luck with finding the culprit. I decided not to sell my car and will be looking into a hairdryer of sorts to join you in your escapades!

clongo · Post by **clongo** » Jul 08, 2011 2:23 PM

Unfortunately this is part of the process. Just wait until it actually runs... That's when the real fun begins of fixing tons of little issues.

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 08, 2011 4:15 PM

Timing is good.
All plugs had fuel on them but were not fouled.

clongo · Post by **clongo** » Jul 08, 2011 4:39 PM

I'm at a loss here. Are you running a 24 or 28 pin dme? I know someone local To me who has a 28 pin that may let you borrow or have pretty cheap.

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 08, 2011 4:44 PM

clongo wrote:I'm at a loss here. Are you running a 24 or 28 pin dme? I know someone local To me who has a 28 pin that may let you borrow or have pretty cheap.

24 pin to run the TCD chip

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 08, 2011 5:14 PM

Got it all back together and still nothing

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 08, 2011 5:29 PM

Even though I have spark, can it still be the ecu?

Post by **mooseheadm5** » Jul 08, 2011 6:31 PM

It could be, but not super likely. Have you got injection pulse? You probably do considering that your plugs are wet. Think maybe you flooded the crap out of it? Are the plug wires in the correct order? Have you got the correct fuel pressure (did you measure it with a gauge?)

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 08, 2011 8:23 PM

mooseheadm5 wrote:It could be, but not super likely. Have you got injection pulse?
You probably do considering that your plugs are wet.
Think maybe you flooded the crap out of it?
Are the plug wires in the correct order?
Have you got the correct fuel pressure (did you measure it with a gauge?)

Wires are on correct.
I'm going to check the fuel pressure in a few.
I let it sit over night and then tried to start it again so I don't think its flooded.

Patrick McHugh · Post by **Patrick McHugh** » Jul 08, 2011 11:59 PM

Did you actually check that the plugs that are in the car fire? You know the new one worked just fine. I soaked some pretty good when I was using my Cold Start Valve and they wouldn't fire at all. I replaced them all but you could probably clean and dry them.

You're probably running larger injectors, definitely unplug the CSV. I fouled the plugs twice before Todd told me to do this and it solved the problem.

red535t · Post by **red535t** » Jul 09, 2011 2:43 AM

so the plugs are wet and we've got spark.

my painfull situation as of this afternoon;
.have you checked that the TPS is earthed properly?
.not sure how you ecu is set-up,but my ecu was being
told that the throttle position it was WOT.= no start.
fixed wiring,and registered a healthy 0-5v
next,over fueled and fouled the plugs badly,again no start.
got a buddy to drag me round the block.
masses of backfires,and after a mile or 2,eventualy there
was life.(should have worn ear muffs,cause i'm only running a down pipe at the moment)still have a ringing in my head

hope it helps
cheers and good luck,m

ThreeM30s · Post by **ThreeM30s** » Jul 09, 2011 7:13 AM

I had a no start problem on my touring (M50 vanos) which got me for three months a little while back. Just before I'd driven it down my driveway (less than 10secs running) to park in the street. When it came to moving it again, it refused to start - and the car remained in the street for 3 months whilst I tried (in vain) everything under the sun.

Turned out I just had to crank it at WOT for a good 20+secs. No idea why, but maybe it was something to do with the ECU inputs, as the intake boot was slightly perished in the bellows section- where you can't spy the cracks.

You've a lot of mods on the intake, perhaps you should check for unmetered air and also all the ECU inputs (temp particularly- both coolant sensors and the IAT sensor too.). Also, have you checked your fuel pressure is correct 3bar/43.5psi?

But yea, maybe your car needs to go WOT for a while with a fresh battery- (as mine still may for that matter).

Either that or a downhill clutch start to hell... good luck man.

clongo · Post by **clongo** » Jul 09, 2011 10:13 AM

Three m30's. Your m50 was flooded from only having it running for 10 seconds. That's very common on those 24v motors. I would check fuel pressure with a gauge and report back.

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 09, 2011 10:48 AM

36psi at intake of fuel rail

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 09, 2011 11:36 AM

Just did a compression test for shits and giggles and got next to nothing on the 1st three cylinders.
I'm going to get another torque wrench from a friend to make sure I have it torque to spec.
The handle with the window were my torque settings are came loose.

Xenocide · Post by **Xenocide** » Jul 09, 2011 11:43 AM

Wait what? You're talking about the head bolts not being torqued enough? While you certainly need to be sure they are, that's not going to cause you to loose that much compression unless they were just finger tight. Also you can't simply re-torque head bolts.

Have you pulled the valve cover since trying to start?

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Jul 09, 2011 12:16 PM

grey ghost wrote:Just did a compression test for shits and giggles and got next to nothing on the 1st three cylinders.
I'm going to get another torque wrench from a friend to make sure I have it torque to spec.
The handle with the window were my torque settings are came loose.

Did you forget the head gasket?

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 09, 2011 1:50 PM

Duke wrote:
grey ghost wrote:Just did a compression test for shits and giggles and got next to nothing on the 1st three cylinders.
I'm going to get another torque wrench from a friend to make sure I have it torque to spec.
The handle with the window were my torque settings are came loose.
Did you forget the head gasket?

Its in there

clongo · Post by **clongo** » Jul 09, 2011 2:35 PM

Put a couple drops of atf in each cylinder and run the compression test again. cylinder walls could be washed out with fuel.

86GT635 · Post by **86GT635** » Jul 09, 2011 3:51 PM

Rotate the cam to close the valves on compression test?

Xenocide · Post by **Xenocide** » Jul 09, 2011 5:27 PM

86GT635 wrote:Rotate the cam to close the valves on compression test?

You mean a leakdown test perhaps?

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 10, 2011 3:52 PM

With the help of clongo and his contacts, I found out that a valve adjustment done on a bench is different than that done on the car.
The shop that did my head did the valve adjustment also.
So today I checked their work and it was way off.
It was like they didn't do it at all.
On 10 of the of the valves I could not get the .012 feeler gauge in.
On the other 2, there was tripple the space.
My question is with all the cranking I''ve done with the valves out of spec, could I have bent a valve?
Is it possible that the piston came up and contacted the valve?
I can hear a knocking noise that hits on rotation but it is not constant.

Yesterday I had extremely low compression in the 30psi range on all cylinders.
With my valve adjustment and some ATF in each cylinder I've gotten the compression up to 90psi on most of the cylinders.
#1 is around 65psi.
I know thats still extremely low.
I have a b35 cam, should I be at .012 on the valve adjustment?
My e34 and e28 benltys say the M30 valve spec is .012.

I torqued the head 40,60,80 and then 80 the next day as I was told to by a turbo guru.
But the paperwork with the head studs says 90.
I don't think that last 10psi is the issue but I'm completely out of ideas.
I was just wondering if the cam size mattered?

Mark 88/M5 Houston · Post by **Mark 88/M5 Houston** » Jul 10, 2011 6:02 PM

grey ghost wrote:My question is with all the cranking I''ve done with the valves out of spec, could I have bent a valve?
Is it possible that the piston came up and contacted the valve?

I kind of doubt it if the cam is timed properly. Do a leak-down test to check for a bent valve.

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 10, 2011 7:19 PM

Mark 88/M5 Houston wrote:
grey ghost wrote:My question is with all the cranking I''ve done with the valves out of spec, could I have bent a valve?
Is it possible that the piston came up and contacted the valve?
I kind of doubt it if the cam is timed properly. Do a leak-down test to check for a bent valve.

With the b35 cam, what are the chances that the rockers are hitting the inside of the valve cover, since there is more lift?
I ask because the knocking sound is more audible with the cover on.
I don't have the tools to do a leak down test but I'm working on it.

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 10, 2011 9:02 PM

grey ghost wrote: With the b35 cam, what are the chances that the rockers are hitting the inside of the valve cover, since there is more lift?
I ask because the knocking sound is more audible with the cover on.

Not possible.

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 10, 2011 9:54 PM

Guys.
I don't know what the hell is going on.
At this point the car tries to start every 20 or so turns of the motor, and thats with the fuel pump fuse out.
For some reason this thing is flooding like crazy.
It doesn't even sound like an m30 cranking anymore.
It feels weak and I guess thats a symptom of the low compression.
I'm going to pull it all apart, again, and recheck the timing, again, although I don't think that the issue.
It looks fine to me but who knows.
If its off it can only be by a tooth, two max but I doubt that.
In any case it should still start.
I'm also going to do a leak down test....
Maybe an e23 head with a b35 cam won't work.
I'm no quiter but this one has me by the nuts and I don't like the way it feels.

I don't think its going to happen.......

grey ghost · Post by **grey ghost** » Jul 11, 2011 12:56 PM

Its my fault on the timing for listening to the machine shop instead of Bently.
They set the cam at TDC which had the sprocket dowel at the 4:30 position instead of the 7:30 position, 90 degrees off.
The #1 exhaust lobe was perpendicular to the head and the sprocket bolts were parallel and perpendicular to the ground so I thought it was right. I overlooked the dowel.
I've since set the timing to were it should be and it still wont start.
Sufice to say my valves are probably shot to shit.
I don't even want to test them.
I don't need any more bad news at the moment.

Chances are everything will be for sale in the next say ot two.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Jul 11, 2011 2:10 PM

grey ghost wrote:Chances are everything will be for sale in the next say ot two.

Step away from it for a week or two......take a deep breath and then take a look at your options. Your machine shop has some splaining to do.

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T-build.SHE'S ALIVE!!!!!!!