GOLDEN MONKEY ALERT...GOLDEN MONKEY ALERT...GOLDEN MONKEY ALERT!!!
Currently resting safely atop the motor.
Been looking for one of these babies for years. Why Hartge? Because of all the other Hartge crap on the car. I really couldn't care less that it's not an 'original' Hartge car. It's mine and I like it.
-Engine management system - MS perhaps? No way. My local tuning shop, Turbo Lab, happens to be AEM certified. Took a look through the AEM literature regarding their new Infinity EMS. Impressive to say the least: http://www.aemelectronics.com/engine-ma ... d9823hsod5
-Modify S38/B35 air accumulator: in work plugging several hose ports I won't be needing (VC vent, etc..). Trying to figure out what color to powder coat this thing. May go the Korman route of white with ///M stripes on the top like Ken's LH build. It just looks NICE.
-Flywheel/clutch - Spec stage 3+ on the shelf waiting for the engine to be installed
-Finish building center console gauge pod with: boost, AFR and EGT or intake charge temp gauges. If I go with the AEM EMS I'll use their new multi-gauge setup with three gauges daisychained and able to monitor 19 channels simultaneously: http://www.aemelectronics.com/gauges-26 ... -gauge-33/
-Front calipers/rotors - Alcon 4-piston with 12# 348 x 30mm Alcon rotors attached with the custom lightweight T-6061 aluminum and anodized black rotor hats purchased from Jon. This BBK has been in various stages of production at UUC since January.
-High flow fuel pump installed in tank with larger diameter lines. Pump installed and tank fitted. Had to drop it 1.5" and still have a clearance issue with the 90deg fitting on the top of the pump. Also need to reassess the muffler since the top is now resting on the heatshield which attaches to the side of the fuel tank. Will likely go with a smaller diameter, round vs. oval muffler. Turbo cars already have the 'spinning' muffler so although its a 3" straight-thru exhaust the noise shouldn't been too obnoxious with a smaller muffler. -8 feed & -6 braided PTFE lines ran from engine bay to fuel tank.
-Mount Aeromotive 40 micron fuel filter & fuel pump controller: in work
-Swap electric seat center console with manual: DONE
-Weld in 524 battery tray - using TD washer tank: DONE and washer lines rerouted. Using an E34 pump, brass fittings and new lines. The location, which is a bit higher and forward of the drivers front wheel is not ideal but I already have a second battery in the right-rear M5 OE location which feeds the audio system. Corner balancing found this arrangement to be suitable. Going to have to get tricky with the charge piping...
-Assemble Hartge Design C 17 x 8.5 & 17 x 9.5 wheels: DONE. All wheels assembled and new Continental Extreme Contact DW's mounted: 225-45's and 275-40's. The rear M-Tech flares may need to go and more extreme fender rolling performed. If needed I have a grinder and MIG if we need to go there. They will fit. I will need all that rubber and more.
-A>A intercooler: removed OE oil cooler to make space. Will likely go with a remote mount oil filter and custom cooler mounted elsewhere. Nice filter head, newish hoses ($$) and heat exchanger up for sale.
-Fabricate tubular top-mount exhaust manifold: watching Otis' E30 build updates. Most likely will use the same flange, 321 stainless 1 3/8" ID primaries, dual wastegates, divided T4 flange to .7 to .8 split exhaust housing (tuning will tell).
-Determine proper size of turbo: received some good input here from owners/builder of similarly equipped cars. Looking at either a GT4088R or 6765 (aka T04Z or T67). "63 trim" compressor wheel. 67mm inducer, 84mm exducer.
-B36 ITB's: installed Moose's linkage fix. Very nice. Disassembled and sourced all hardware not NLA. Polished & clearcoated throttle housings. Lots of masking. Removed unneeded vacuum ports and welded smooth.
-Alternator Swap: current 140a E32/4 alternator vent hose doesn't fit with the S38 accumulator/plenum. Looking at a rebuilt 150a unit. The existing 140a alternator will be up for sale.
-Looking for M5 injector harness loom tray. I believe it's part of the engine wiring harness. Can't find a diagram or part number for the housing itself: aluminum tray for wires/plugs and plastic housing cover. Any leads would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by Murfinator on Jul 27, 2012 10:02 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Corner Carver wrote:Dude. Your just being a tease without pics of the valve cover on the engine.
I know. It really completes the look of the motor perfectly. Want to get the ITB's cleaned up before posting pics. Ideally I'd have the exhaust manifold and turbo on there too...but not yet.
M. Holtmeier wrote:Did they give you a price on that Infinity EMS?
A couple of AEM's release video's mention a price of <$2,000 + options (custom harness, tuning extras, etc..). Their website has not been updated yet with specific pricing. The cost is roughly equivalent to Electromotive's Tec-3R and Haltech's Platinum 2000. Between the options, support and dependability I'm more than willing to pay in the neighborhood of this amount. Besides, my time is valuable and I'm certainly a novice when it comes to tuning so the balance sheet will likely remain in the black vs. building my own MS setup. Judging from all the builds I've seen using MS I don't have a warm&fuzzy that system will meet my needs or even work properly without a significant investment of my time and others (dyno time=$$$$). I really don't need the frustration.
GOLDEN MONKEY ALERT...GOLDEN MONKEY ALERT...GOLDEN MONKEY ALERT!!!
Currently resting safely atop the motor.
Been looking for one of these babies for years. Why Hartge? Because of all the other Hartge crap on the car. I really couldn't care less that it's not an 'original' Hartge car. It's mine and I like it.
Mike,
Nice valve cover! That is going to look sweet on your motor.
A few quick shots last night after partial refurbishment of the throttles: Dremel & wire brush, Alumablast and high-temp clear with new hardware.
The plenum is in work and the alternator found a new home (sold). Other options being explored.
I knew that was going to be an issue, but I haven't ever seen what anyone has done about it. Have you had someone address this yet or no? Just curious.
This is the tray for the injectors harnes, you can use the one from a m30b34/35 as they will fit 100%
Nice uppdate
-Looking for M5 injector harness loom tray. I believe it's part of the engine wiring harness. Can't find a diagram or part number for the housing itself: aluminum tray for wires/plugs and plastic housing cover. Any leads would be greatly appreciated.[/list]
ealoken wrote:This is the tray for the injectors harnes, you can use the one from a m30b34/35 as they will fit 100%
I believe you're confusing the B35 injector harness for the M5. The B34 didn't have a piece of this nature, only wrapped wires and plugs. Below is a photo depicting a B35 harness cover which is noticeably larger than the M5 piece pictured above (~3x wider). Note the ITB throttle linkage had to be reversed to the bottom from the top since it would contact the B35 harness cover if left in its original position. Notice the accelerator bowden cable mount bent 90 degrees down.
Also note the t-stat assembly which has been modified for use of a B34/35 cylinder head with the ITB's.
Just searched the shed. Only one of the two harnesses I could find in my storage area had the cover on it. If the one on my car has it (I honestly can't remember) then we'll talk about this one. You want just the cover or the whole harness? I'm concerned about breaking the thing taking it off.
mooseheadm5 wrote:Just searched the shed. Only one of the two harnesses I could find in my storage area had the cover on it. If the one on my car has it (I honestly can't remember) then we'll talk about this one. You want just the cover or the whole harness? I'm concerned about breaking the thing taking it off.
I'd rather take the whole harness than risk breaking something taking it apart. Please send pics when you can. Thanks
With the new motor essentially doubling the power output of the OE motor the stock radiator went bye-bye. I've looked at Griffin, they offer a custom order form but the price is ~$800. Ron Davis built a nice unit for Ken's LH build. Spoke with them and they still have the template from that build; price is $751 + shipping. Got my eyes on VAC Motorsports. They have an E24/28 S38/M88 custom 'race' radiator that appears promising. Cost is comparatively low at $649, and the design is street/track proven. Best of all perhaps is I won't need to do any more cutting and welding to get it to fit, mounting points are the same and the OE shroud will still bolt right up.
Anyone had any experience with VAC and this radiator? Any input regarding aftermarket radiators would be appreciated. Thanks
Murfinator wrote:With the new motor essentially doubling the power output of the OE motor the stock radiator went bye-bye. [/img]
I had no issues with the stock radiator and more than double the HP. Stock e30, e28 and e34 all kept my cars cool on the street, dragstrip and road courses.
That said, I spent $180 on a Griffin radiator that Sweeney modified to fit. $600-800 seems crazy.
It wouldn't be the radiator in the picture, that's for sure, since that looks nothing like a stock M5 radiator. The stock M5 inlet and outlets are very different from a 535, and since you are using a mix of parts, you should probably figure out which would be best for you to use, especially if you plan on plunking down over 6 bills for it. I'm going to bet that a 535 style radiator will be the way to go here, not an M5 style.
"The E24 M6 / E28 M5 VAC Aluminum Radiator is a premium design of 100% aluminum construction; meaning no weak plastic to burst or crack as is common with the OEM units.
It is designed as a direct-replacement for the OEM radiator and utilizes the factory fan shroud, expansion tank and mounting points but with much greater cooling potential.
When our customers started asking for a solution for these classics, you spoke and we listened. This is a super high efficiency and light weight core at home on the street or the track. Much improved cooling over stock is due to it's higher flow, and superior core technology, as well as higher reliability.
At this this price, with drop in install it can't be beat: no other radiator offers this performance, at this price point; an easy choice for all ///M Owners!
Check out our customer with his awesome M6 and VAC rad: Scott's M6
Radiator core size is 21.5" x 17" x 1.5"
Direct replacement for all: S38 E24 M6 (euro M635 M88) & E28 M5 models.
Proven under duress of high-load (both during racing conditions as well as street conditions)
Fits both M88 and S38 engines
1 Year warranty against defects
Made with pride in the USA!
Tech Note: *Maybe possible to retro fit to 633 & 635 applications, but has not been tested*"
The dimensions of the M5 vs. the 535 radiator I believe are nearly identical. Regardless, it's the same chassis or mounting dimensions. They're both cross-flow radiators with the inlet on the upper drivers side and the outlet on the lower passenger side. Locations of the sensors is less important in my case and I may be going with an aftermarket overflow reservoir.
Yes, I could go with pieces to a Griffin but then I'm left with welding it together. While I'm somewhat proficient with a MIG in the case of a primary component such as an oil pan, throttle body or radiator I'll leave the work to someone with the proper equipment (TIG usually) and better training and more trigger time. My TIG guy is extremely busy and charges $75 per hour which isn't bad but when you add the cost of components plus time $650 becomes more reasonable, especially when you factor in warranty and peace of mind.
Though one may get away with leaving the OE cooling system alone my particular use case is extended WOT or close to WOT in a hot climate at 4,500' AGL with many long climbs up steep interstates and narrow switchback roads. I'll also be retaining AC which put further demands on the cooling system.
The photo VAC is using is the same for all their radiators so the photo is not accurate but only a sample of their offerings.
Chris: Since you supplied the template is it correct to assume you've been using a Ron Davis radiator in one of your 535's? Are all the dimensions nearly identical to the OE unit? Any feedback regarding the radiator or is it just doing the same job as the OE unit?
For my applications, it was not worth the money when the South-African Behr units work fine for me. A friend looked at it as one thing he hadn't yet upgraded, so I gave them a radiator and a shroud to use (returned when they were done). He tracks his car regularly and drives quite hard. The car does run considerably cooler at the track after the radiator upgrade. His old system worked well, but there was a noticeable improvement. The shroud fit properly and it fit like a stock one. Can't say it's not high quality, that's for sure. Definitely pricey, though.
Personally, I don't see how the M5/M6 radiator would work with a 535i. They're considerably different. The image shown on the VAC site also doesn't look like an M5/M6 radiator, more like the E32/E34 M30 rads, shown here:
That's the M5/M6 one
Here's the 535i:
The thermostats are in wildly different setups, so the upper/lower hoses are in different places as well.
Thanks for the info Chris. Called VAC Motorsports and requested more info and photos of the M5 radiator. Their page states they feel it may be used with a 633/635/535. I'm looking for an option which will minimized cutting and modification of the mounting points while providing increased cooling capacity.
Here are some progress photos.
-Cleaned up the ITB's, new hardware, Note the Moosehead linkage fix installed. Thanks Paul!
-TIG'd up some vacuum ports on the ITB's and plenum, blasted and painted the plenum.
-Ran the Aeroquip TFE lined fuel lines to the engine bay -8 feed and -6 return. Used the same mounting point for the 40 micron fuel filter but with a piece of ABS plastic and the OE rubber mounts. Also used the OE mounting points for the lines. Cut down the threaded body nuts, drilled and tapped them for the Made For You double place T-clamps molded from 6.6 DuPont Zytel aircraft-quality nylon.
-Exhaust run: 3" ID with track pipe (cat will remain in the corner of the garage; no emissions regs locally). Dynomax Ultraflo stainless muffler, 6" OD (P/N 17267 http://www.dynomax.com/mufflers.php?muffler=ultrafloss).
Still waiting for the great Paul Burke to complete fabrication of the fuel rail. Needed some special fitting for the TFE -8 AN hose.
Last edited by Murfinator on Aug 21, 2012 3:45 PM, edited 3 times in total.
Given the modified angle of my thermostat housing port I'm already in a position where I'll need to modify the radiator hoses. I'm thinking silicone couplings at the ports and hard lines in between.
mooseheadm5 wrote:I'd definitely check with Ron Davis for that 535i radiator. The M5 one does not seem workable given the passenger side connection.
What I'm hearing is the only issue with using an M5/6 radiator in a 535 is the passenger side connection. Aside from that the driver's side is slightly lower and the sensor ports are also on the driver's side rather than the passenger side where they are located on 535 radiators. Given that the driver's side connections will already have to be modified in my case due to the t-stat housing modification it isn't too much to ask that the passenger side outlet connection be modified also. By modified I'm referring to routing of the hoses, not modification of the radiator itself.
In summary:
OE 535 radiator: plastic end tanks, designed for use with stock motor. $177 new
OE M5 radiator: plastic end tanks, designed for use with stock motor. $393 new
Ron Davis 535 radiator: connections the same as OE radiator and dimensions the same, no added capacity. Rated for <400hp. $789
Ron Davis M5 radiator: slightly larger than OE capacity: 26"w x 19.28"h x 2" thick. I believe Ken H. is using this particular design in LH which is making 700+ hp. $918
Ron Davis custom radiator: larger capacity 2.8" thickness, all other dimensions and connections same as OE. Must use electric fan. $1,100
VAC Motorsports: M5 unit on the shelf, modification of hoses necessary, designed for use with performance enhanced motor but dimensions are only 21.5" x 17" x 1.5". $649
Wizard Cooling: supplier of VAC Motorsports' radiators but offered $99 cheaper. Looking to have them modify their M5 template and flip the passenger end tank and move the fitting 90 degree to face the rear of the car. $550
Last edited by Murfinator on Sep 07, 2012 12:00 AM, edited 1 time in total.
