Another Oil question
[QUOTE="Threeshifter"]I believe the synthetic oils were first developed by the Germans during WWII because the oil embargoes reduced the crude oil supply, but they had lots of coal.[/QUOTE]
Well, an "embargo" is an economic boycott or trade barrier (i.e. Cuban sugar can't be sold in, or imported to, the US) -- I suppose you could call the military and political situation a "barrier," but what the Germans faced is more correctly called a "blockade."
[QUOTE="dworthy"]The OEM part is always a good choice. Of course Fram does make a microfilter, like a lot of others, but does it interrupt flow? Could it filter better and clean the impurities out of oil better? I am not an engineer, but I am sure that we have several on the board who could answer these thought provocating questions. Shawn?[/QUOTE]
I dunno, but what I will say is that when I could use a larger filter (i.e. a 50% larger truck filter on my small-block Chevy, as opposed to the passenger car version), I use it. My reasoning is that there will be less restriction due to the increase in surface area and thus less of a chance the bypass will open (except I blocked the bypass in my '57 Chevy with a 1/4" NPT pipe plug ). However, unless there are any real alternatives for an M30, the issue of which filter to use is moot -- AFAIK, only "OE" style filters are available.
Well, an "embargo" is an economic boycott or trade barrier (i.e. Cuban sugar can't be sold in, or imported to, the US) -- I suppose you could call the military and political situation a "barrier," but what the Germans faced is more correctly called a "blockade."
[QUOTE="dworthy"]The OEM part is always a good choice. Of course Fram does make a microfilter, like a lot of others, but does it interrupt flow? Could it filter better and clean the impurities out of oil better? I am not an engineer, but I am sure that we have several on the board who could answer these thought provocating questions. Shawn?[/QUOTE]
I dunno, but what I will say is that when I could use a larger filter (i.e. a 50% larger truck filter on my small-block Chevy, as opposed to the passenger car version), I use it. My reasoning is that there will be less restriction due to the increase in surface area and thus less of a chance the bypass will open (except I blocked the bypass in my '57 Chevy with a 1/4" NPT pipe plug ). However, unless there are any real alternatives for an M30, the issue of which filter to use is moot -- AFAIK, only "OE" style filters are available.
[QUOTE="spinedocab"]Sweeney,
another SAAB guy on the board??? I had no idea. Most of the board somehow considers saabs to be "beneath" them. I too have a couple of high mileage, high boosted original turbos. One still in service, the other not.
The current iteration is my daily driver 1985 16 valver, boosted to 20 psi (Group 6 tuned box). She goes like stink. I just wish they could make a stronger gearbox .
Andrew.[/QUOTE]
I loved my Saab. I no longer have it... go trear ended and bent it pretty good. I sold it to a friend. It was a little small for me also but as far as a good solid car and a great performer... it had all that. The later trannys were more stout. I think after '87 or '88. The main prblem was the pinion bearing. It was to be able to change a clutch in an hour :o)
another SAAB guy on the board??? I had no idea. Most of the board somehow considers saabs to be "beneath" them. I too have a couple of high mileage, high boosted original turbos. One still in service, the other not.
The current iteration is my daily driver 1985 16 valver, boosted to 20 psi (Group 6 tuned box). She goes like stink. I just wish they could make a stronger gearbox .
Andrew.[/QUOTE]
I loved my Saab. I no longer have it... go trear ended and bent it pretty good. I sold it to a friend. It was a little small for me also but as far as a good solid car and a great performer... it had all that. The later trannys were more stout. I think after '87 or '88. The main prblem was the pinion bearing. It was to be able to change a clutch in an hour :o)
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Well, an "embargo" is an economic boycott or trade barrier (i.e. Cuban sugar can't be sold in, or imported to, the US) -- I suppose you could call the military and political situation a "barrier," but what the Germans faced is more correctly called a "blockade."
I stand corrected.
Is this an accurate statement in regards to the development of synthesized oil? There very well may have been several syn-oil development programs going on during this time. I picked that information up on the History channel and thought it was interesting.
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Now that someone has brought up turbo applications:
In my opinion synthetic oils could provide a significant benefit in turbo applications. Because of their higher temperature stability, synthetic oils would perform better in the turbo bearing where it is in close proximity to the hot exhaust gas. The benefit will be seen in improved high temperature lubrication of this bearing and reduce production of abrasive coke.
Coke is produced when a hydrocarbon molecule breaks apart and leaves essentially carbon behind. Coke is produced at about 250-270 Fahrenheit and the rate production increases as the temperature increase.
In my opinion synthetic oils could provide a significant benefit in turbo applications. Because of their higher temperature stability, synthetic oils would perform better in the turbo bearing where it is in close proximity to the hot exhaust gas. The benefit will be seen in improved high temperature lubrication of this bearing and reduce production of abrasive coke.
Coke is produced when a hydrocarbon molecule breaks apart and leaves essentially carbon behind. Coke is produced at about 250-270 Fahrenheit and the rate production increases as the temperature increase.
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Wow, I even found some turbo related information on coking. Here is some coking information that I have found with Google's help:
Although widely believed to be true, oxygen does not have to be present for coke to form. The formation of coke is a function of temperature and time, with the coking rate doubling with each increase in temperature of 10C or 18F.*
*http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/CDweb/c-html/c045.htm
From "The Practical Handbook of Machinery Lubrication"
A construction equipment contractor was experiencing premature turbocharger failures when certain engines were operated under full-load conditions and used around the clock. Investigation through oil analysis and diagnosis of the failed components revealed that the failures were caused by coking of the petroleum base oil within the turbocharger oil passages, thus restricting oil flow and resulting in bearing failure.
The initial cause of the oil coking condition was excessive temperatures within the turbocharger housing. A fully synthetic diesel engine oil was selected of the same viscosity as the original petroleum base mineral oil and installed. Premature turbocharger failures did not reoccur and oil temperatures dropped by about eight degrees Fahrenheit.**
**http://www.lube-tips.com/focus/2004_12_08.htm
The shaft is supported by a bearing housing that is lubricated and cooled by an oil line from the engine. Since engine exhaust has such high temperatures, the exhaust side of the turbo can reach thousands of degrees F. This is why it is so critical that the engine oil be changed religiously (every 3,000 miles), because old oil can burn and leave deposits in oil lines and housings, called "coke". Coking can be virtually eliminated by using a synthetic oil and changing it frequently (every 6,000 miles). Some turbos feature an additional passage for a coolant line, to keep the bearing housing cool. This did little to keep temperatures down while running, but it had a huge effect after the engine was shut off. Without the coolant passage, the oil would drain when the engine was shut off and the turbo bearing housing would reach incredibly high temperatures from the heat transferring out of the exhaust manifold. This took its toll on the life of the bearings. The presence of the water keeps the housing cool ***
***http://www.turbonation.com/turbo.htm
Although widely believed to be true, oxygen does not have to be present for coke to form. The formation of coke is a function of temperature and time, with the coking rate doubling with each increase in temperature of 10C or 18F.*
*http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/CDweb/c-html/c045.htm
From "The Practical Handbook of Machinery Lubrication"
A construction equipment contractor was experiencing premature turbocharger failures when certain engines were operated under full-load conditions and used around the clock. Investigation through oil analysis and diagnosis of the failed components revealed that the failures were caused by coking of the petroleum base oil within the turbocharger oil passages, thus restricting oil flow and resulting in bearing failure.
The initial cause of the oil coking condition was excessive temperatures within the turbocharger housing. A fully synthetic diesel engine oil was selected of the same viscosity as the original petroleum base mineral oil and installed. Premature turbocharger failures did not reoccur and oil temperatures dropped by about eight degrees Fahrenheit.**
**http://www.lube-tips.com/focus/2004_12_08.htm
The shaft is supported by a bearing housing that is lubricated and cooled by an oil line from the engine. Since engine exhaust has such high temperatures, the exhaust side of the turbo can reach thousands of degrees F. This is why it is so critical that the engine oil be changed religiously (every 3,000 miles), because old oil can burn and leave deposits in oil lines and housings, called "coke". Coking can be virtually eliminated by using a synthetic oil and changing it frequently (every 6,000 miles). Some turbos feature an additional passage for a coolant line, to keep the bearing housing cool. This did little to keep temperatures down while running, but it had a huge effect after the engine was shut off. Without the coolant passage, the oil would drain when the engine was shut off and the turbo bearing housing would reach incredibly high temperatures from the heat transferring out of the exhaust manifold. This took its toll on the life of the bearings. The presence of the water keeps the housing cool ***
***http://www.turbonation.com/turbo.htm
Sweeney said:
BTW, you see how many people get all worked up when I say, without hesitation, that I'd keep my Jeep over my BMWs :o) To each his own.
BUUUUUUUUUUUURN!Seymour in C'ville wrote:Sweeney said:
But awhile ago he also said, about himself, something like:
Strong as an ox - Smart like a tractor :p
Clears up that whole Jeep thing.
Well, I hate to be a dick, but, my original question was never answered. I still have no idea what the new Mobil 1's are compared to the old normal Mobil 1. I think, though, that I am going to switch to BMW synthetic and buy it right from the dealer, and change it every 4-5k miles. I run factory filters, and 4-5k miles is plenty for me, especialy as hard as I drive. Plus, I know BMW Synthetic is just as good or better than Mobil 1, and it's same price. I think I'll stiock to that. And, it's definitely warm enough now to run 20-50 with no problems.
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