MyE28.com DEV

You guys got me thinking about the old days here, and since this is drawing on 30+ year old memories, I went to a file cabinet I have here in my office and pulled out a 1980 Korman catalog.

I guess I didn't recall exactly, but herein he claims the my Stg2+ was ~160hp.

Also with regard to injection engines:

He offered a "Stage 2 Injected Engine" but only with the tii Kugelfischer injection. He notes: "Design and technical limitations of the Bosch K-jet Injection System preclude offering this option for the 320i models." He goes on to say, "The Tii Stage 2 produces 160hp and pulls very strongly throughout the entire rev range. It does not idle quite as smoothly as a Weber carbureted Stage 2."

CSBM5 wrote:You guys got me thinking about the old days here, and since this is drawing on 30+ year old memories, I went to a file cabinet I have here in my office and pulled out a 1980 Korman catalog.

I guess I didn't recall exactly, but herein he claims the my Stg2+ was ~160hp.

Also with regard to injection engines:

He offered a "Stage 2 Injected Engine" but only with the tii Kugelfischer injection. He notes: "Design and technical limitations of the Bosch K-jet Injection System preclude offering this option for the 320i models." He goes on to say, "The Tii Stage 2 produces 160hp and pulls very strongly throughout the entire rev range. It does not idle quite as smoothly as a Weber carbureted Stage 2."

That is interesting. Mine was in an 02, so did have Kfish. Neither of the engines ever idled well or ran well until they hit 3500 RPM. pretty much fun after that.

m-racer wrote:

CSBM5 wrote:You guys got me thinking about the old days here, and since this is drawing on 30+ year old memories, I went to a file cabinet I have here in my office and pulled out a 1980 Korman catalog.

I guess I didn't recall exactly, but herein he claims the my Stg2+ was ~160hp.

Also with regard to injection engines:

He offered a "Stage 2 Injected Engine" but only with the tii Kugelfischer injection. He notes: "Design and technical limitations of the Bosch K-jet Injection System preclude offering this option for the 320i models." He goes on to say, "The Tii Stage 2 produces 160hp and pulls very strongly throughout the entire rev range. It does not idle quite as smoothly as a Weber carbureted Stage 2."

That is interesting. Mine was in an 02, so did have Kfish.

Yeah, you can play with the tii injection to get the fuel you need, but the K-jet is just a pain in the tail trying to get more flow out of it (and specifically calibrating the air/fuel curve throughout the deflection range of that flapper -- very difficult to tune for an engine with a hot cam and whole new fueling requirements throughout the rev range, hence the reason why people just junked the K-jet when looking at serious engine builds back then). Of course this is from the perspective of 30 years ago as I have no knowledge if since that time someone makes tricked out K-jet systems or not. Besides, the sidedrafts sure did sound sweet!

If I am not mistaken, all the Bosch K-Jetronic fuel distributors used a universal size metering bore. If the metering holes on the bore were increased, so was fuel flow. Of course. Then came trying to match the airflow through the meter to the new found fuel increase.

A couple of things with K- Jet:

The small electronic valve that regulates the control pressure inside the distributor is controlled at a pulsed rate by the O2 sensor. If there is noO2 sensor, then this valve will not be there.

The thermal insulator jackets that the injectors go into like to crack if not installed properly or are old.

The accumulator after the high pressure pump like to leak, and if it is faulty, you will have a hell of a time starting you're car.

Make sure that the plunger inside the airflow cone has measurable resistance when the fuel pump is running ( push in direction of airflow) this is how the plate stays level in the air stream to counteact bumps and what not. It uses the fuel pressure to balance the plate.

mtnman533 wrote:

caleb 87 535is wrote:ill pick up a Bentley manual for it also.

No Bentley for the e21 last time I checked, Haynes only. I owned one for a year or so, an IS, auto-xed it quite a lot. Great fun little cars, the 4 banger loves being revved!

Have fun with it, M20 swap is the best thing you can do to those cars.

I just now got done reading the latest post's. Thats some great stuff. Right now im not going to be doing to much to the engine and im not going to plan an m20 swap till I can have some one who has done the swap help me with it. That and I don't have all the tools required or the required knowledge of these swaps yet. Im going to put a windage tray on it and a few other things to help free up power. And theres a gentleman wanting to talk business on my e28 so it might end up getting sold to help fund for my 320i. Two cars is a bit much for my budget right now so I will more than likely sell the e28 as it is a bit much for me at this time.
Ill post up a list of mods and added extras im going to be doing to the car first off as soon as I get home tonight.

I too have an E21 that I paid $1800 for. It's super clean but could use a refreshing. I'm in the process of getting everything together for an m30 swap out of my 535is.

Oh, and the subforum of BF.C will be your greatest resource. They really know their E21s.

CSBM5 wrote:

m-racer wrote:

CSBM5 wrote:You guys got me thinking about the old days here, and since this is drawing on 30+ year old memories, I went to a file cabinet I have here in my office and pulled out a 1980 Korman catalog.

I guess I didn't recall exactly, but herein he claims the my Stg2+ was ~160hp.

Also with regard to injection engines:

He offered a "Stage 2 Injected Engine" but only with the tii Kugelfischer injection. He notes: "Design and technical limitations of the Bosch K-jet Injection System preclude offering this option for the 320i models." He goes on to say, "The Tii Stage 2 produces 160hp and pulls very strongly throughout the entire rev range. It does not idle quite as smoothly as a Weber carbureted Stage 2."

That is interesting. Mine was in an 02, so did have Kfish.

Yeah, you can play with the tii injection to get the fuel you need, but the K-jet is just a pain in the tail trying to get more flow out of it (and specifically calibrating the air/fuel curve throughout the deflection range of that flapper -- very difficult to tune for an engine with a hot cam and whole new fueling requirements throughout the rev range, hence the reason why people just junked the K-jet when looking at serious engine builds back then). Of course this is from the perspective of 30 years ago as I have no knowledge if since that time someone makes tricked out K-jet systems or not. Besides, the sidedrafts sure did sound sweet!

That is interesting about K-jet. I always assumed that if you could bench flow K-fish, that the late versions would be easier, not harder. Learn something every day. I beileve I saw you car at some point. Might have just been pics when it was for sale. Not sure. Twin sidedrafts have their own "gulp". Love the sound. I never had much issue with mine after they were jetted correctly. I do have a copy of the Korman jetting guide if you ever find you need it. I used to keep a bag of jets in the trunk.

K-jet is actually a great system to use for turbos. alot of guys do this and produce outstanding results. You can tune k-jet to run really lean or dump fuel, easier than you can with a carb or k-fish. and because of the air flow meter (flapper plate) it will be proportional to airflow. K-jet is a great system and its why i opted to get rid of the efi on my m20 and keep the kjet. simple, easy to use.

Mr.3-5-7 wrote:K-jet is actually a great system to use for turbos. alot of guys do this and produce outstanding results. You can tune k-jet to run really lean or dump fuel, easier than you can with a carb or k-fish. and because of the air flow meter (flapper plate) it will be proportional to airflow. K-jet is a great system and its why i opted to get rid of the efi on my m20 and keep the kjet. simple, easy to use.

OK. That was my assumption. How do you adjust fuel/air for bigger cams. higher comprssion. etc.?

K jet blows. Swap that sheat.

Our 82 320I had 95 hp? I dunno. Beat the shit outta a Toyota Camry off the line. Rusty hunk o junk and in almost hit a corvette because they brakes locked up.

I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

m-racer wrote:

Mr.3-5-7 wrote:K-jet is actually a great system to use for turbos. alot of guys do this and produce outstanding results. You can tune k-jet to run really lean or dump fuel, easier than you can with a carb or k-fish. and because of the air flow meter (flapper plate) it will be proportional to airflow. K-jet is a great system and its why i opted to get rid of the efi on my m20 and keep the kjet. simple, easy to use.

OK. That was my assumption. How do you adjust fuel/air for bigger cams. higher comprssion. etc.?

There is something called a "boost-sensing WUR" (warm up regulator). Its job is to regulate fuel pressure to the top of the plunger inside the distributor thereby richening the mixture or leaning it out depending on the temperature of the coolant and the air pressure in the manifold. On top of that there is a manual adjustment right on the air-flow meter itself. A little 3mm allen that adjusts how much the plunger moves in relation to the flapper plate. Counterclockwise to lean it out, clockwise to richen it up.

Experimenting with those two settings, with the help of a wideband O2, you can tune it for anything

I am surprised that y'all are so focused on the E21 engine and that nobody has mentioned that their stock suspension sucks. They flip over.

caleb 87 535is wrote:And theres a gentleman wanting to talk business on my e28 so it might end up getting sold to help fund for my 320i. Two cars is a bit much for my budget right now so I will more than likely sell the e28 as it is a bit much for me at this time.

Drive it a bit before you jump, you might find it a little more of a downgrade than you want. A generation earlier and a 3 instead of a 5, that's two steps down. My favorite quote about E21s is that their biggest fault is they seem to run forever. And it wasn't a complement.

L_N_Love wrote:I am surprised that y'all are so focused on the E21 engine and that nobody has mentioned that their stock suspension sucks. They flip over.

Good point. I owned a 78 320i and it was easily the worst car in weather I have ever driven. It was bad in rain, much less anything more serious. The 323i, B6 and 323/M50 seemed much more stable, but the 320i was a handfull.

Drawing on ancient memories here, but my E21 suspension had Alpina springs, KYB shocks, Suspension Techniques front and rear sway bars, some assortment of Alpina bushings (I think rear subframe and stuff up front, really can't recall now), 14" wheels (lol, "+1" over the stock 13"), strut tower brace (back when cars truly needed one of these), and probably a few more things.

It handled decently for the time. It wasn't close to my Bavaria, but it didn't drag the door handles on turns like a stock one either.

The Alpina springs were nice enough for everyday driving, and they lowered it out of the sky a good bit, but I recall wanting to go to a linear rate, stiffer spring at the time but never fooled with it.

I ended up selling the car to a kid who I think had no clue what a sidedraft was (but probably had to learn) back in 1989.

m-racer wrote:That is interesting about K-jet. I always assumed that if you could bench flow K-fish, that the late versions would be easier, not harder. Learn something every day. I beileve I saw you car at some point. Might have just been pics when it was for sale. Not sure. Twin sidedrafts have their own "gulp". Love the sound. I never had much issue with mine after they were jetted correctly. I do have a copy of the Korman jetting guide if you ever find you need it. I used to keep a bag of jets in the trunk.

I'm sure that since 30+ years ago, many have figured out how to make K-jet work better with modified engines and such. I assume back at the time, it was far easier to just rip it all off and throw on some Webers, especially when you have tons of experienced tuning Weber installations for all sorts of various engine configurations (i.e. Korman).

Interesting about the jetting guide...I have something similar for an M30 3L with 45DCOEs and Schrick cam someplace around here. I also have an extensive setup for the M10 showing what combination of chokes, main jets, emulsion tubes and air corrector jets to use that the previous owner put together with the help of a dyno. He used to put on very large chokes for track events which really opened up the top end with the cam and all, and then switch back to smaller chokes for daily driving.

You probably would have had a better chance of seeing my Atlantik Blue Bavaria at Korman's in the early-mid 80s. Ray and I trailered it up to Mid-Ohio in 1981 for a track event, he offered to trailer it if I'd let him drive it in instructor's sessions...it was a great trip. Here's a video of the Bav if you like to hear some triple Weber induction roar. Check out how it compares off the line with a stock E12 528i. Damn, I miss that car...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_RM1PA_cKI

CSBM5 wrote:

m-racer wrote:That is interesting about K-jet. I always assumed that if you could bench flow K-fish, that the late versions would be easier, not harder. Learn something every day. I beileve I saw you car at some point. Might have just been pics when it was for sale. Not sure. Twin sidedrafts have their own "gulp". Love the sound. I never had much issue with mine after they were jetted correctly. I do have a copy of the Korman jetting guide if you ever find you need it. I used to keep a bag of jets in the trunk.

I'm sure that since 30+ years ago, many have figured out how to make K-jet work better with modified engines and such. I assume back at the time, it was far easier to just rip it all off and throw on some Webers, especially when you have tons of experienced tuning Weber installations for all sorts of various engine configurations (i.e. Korman).

Interesting about the jetting guide...I have something similar for an M30 3L with 45DCOEs and Schrick cam someplace around here. I also have an extensive setup for the M10 showing what combination of chokes, main jets, emulsion tubes and air corrector jets to use that the previous owner put together with the help of a dyno. He used to put on very large chokes for track events which really opened up the top end with the cam and all, and then switch back to smaller chokes for daily driving.

You probably would have had a better chance of seeing my Atlantik Blue Bavaria at Korman's in the early-mid 80s. Ray and I trailered it up to Mid-Ohio in 1981 for a track event, he offered to trailer it if I'd let him drive it in instructor's sessions...it was a great trip. Here's a video of the Bav if you like to hear some triple Weber induction roar. Check out how it compares off the line with a stock E12 528i. Damn, I miss that car...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_RM1PA_cKI

Very cool. Ray was the instructor at my first driving school in 1976!

Mike W. wrote:

caleb 87 535is wrote:And theres a gentleman wanting to talk business on my e28 so it might end up getting sold to help fund for my 320i. Two cars is a bit much for my budget right now so I will more than likely sell the e28 as it is a bit much for me at this time.

Drive it a bit before you jump, you might find it a little more of a downgrade than you want. A generation earlier and a 3 instead of a 5, that's two steps down. My favorite quote about E21s is that their biggest fault is they seem to run forever. And it wasn't a complement.

Yea 3 series are not the best but since I can't afford to buy another E28 one that runs better and since i don't have the money to fix mine up to safe conditions this car was my best option unless some one here knows of a good running e28 thats a manual preferably for sale below 2k??

I'm coming in late here, but would consider the E30 over any E21 everyday.

John in VA wrote:I'm coming in late here, but would consider the E30 over any E21 everyday.

+ 3 million.

wkohler wrote:

I'm going to give the e21 a shot and if tries to kill me too many times ill trade it or sell it. its seems to be a back and forth deal some like it and some don't. From what it sounds like to me this is a car of personal preference.

Ours was a fun, comfortable car, for what it was. But it did have rust.

1st 5er wrote:Ours was a fun, comfortable car, for what it was. But it did have rust.

It has no rust and has a straight body which is really nice. Im just leary about the seals on the engine. Cause if there dry im screwed and I'll of been jipped.

would the suspension from a 323i cross over to the 320i? I think they will but im not sure. there are more aftermarket parts for the 323i thats why I ask.

I run with the e30 crowd. Yes, the M10 loves high revs. The e21 has always been a good car for me. I've had this red one for 25 years.

Can would I be able to swap performance parts from the E30 like the sway bars and suspension parts to the E21??

Dude, every question you've asked has been answered HERE: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/fo ... 1983-(E21)

I told you about it on the first page of this thread... it is THE be all and end all of E21 knowledge and information on the World Wide Web. Go there, search, inwardly digest and be happy!

Enjoy the e21, great car.