Ultimate E28 Interior (was Engine Choices)

[unt0uchable]

You bought that awesome euro shell, didn't you?

I like the idea of a V8/6 speed swap. M60 would do fine for me. Enough power, great sound, and 6 gears.

[davintosh]

Impress me. Build something badass and electric.

Now we're talking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVkJjt_Peg0
http://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=40

[oldskool]

Yeah. Surprise me. That's what I'm squalking about.
Do it

[Cactus]

Wankel. 4 rotors. There is no better option.

If that's too ambitious, go radial.

If that's too ambitious, I don't much care about your car. Sell it, buy a Vaught Corsair, Supermarine Spitfire, or a Ford Trimotor.

Maybe a Sköda 1100.

[wkohler]

I don't think starting with the goal of building a car that will win awards is the right way to go about anything.

Build what you want. Not what others tell you to want.

[86GT635]

Dry sump 4liter s38 with ljet slide throttle itb's.

[bkbimmer]

I don't think starting with the goal of building a car that will win awards is the right way to go about anything.

Build what you want. Not what others tell you to want.

X2

[Stevo12]

x3 on the N54! That's at the forefront of what I'd want to put into mine, honestly, and since you have that Arctic Blue shell, you might as well build the car I'd like to build...except you know, the right way.

Whatever it is though, keep it Arctic Blue!!

[euro24]

Anyone suggesting a LS motor, please show yourself the door

[adrian in florida]

well you want to daily drive the car so driveabiity is an ongoing concern. Weight can also be an issue. You dont want to mess up the weight distribution to much, I think the s54 is the way to go in order to accomplish your original goals. Just trick out the suspension with some ground control coilovers. You can also have an "M" button. I think it will be challenging to make the install look professional and to get it all running the way you want..

At some point more horsepower is just more horsepower and there is a risk reward in terms of driveability. Whatever you do I know it will be good as I have enjoyed reading your former builds and have always been impressed with your documentation in terms of providing Mye28 with content. Thanks.

[T_C_D]

Anyone suggesting a LS motor, please show yourself the door

Simple, compact, LTW, inexpensive, reliable and any HP desired. Try applying those adjectives to any previously mentioned BMW engines.

[Tammer in Philly]

Anyone suggesting a LS motor, please show yourself the door

What a silly comment. What part of lighter than an S54, more power than an S54, more cheaply modded to S85+ power, more compact than just about anything other than a weeny 4-cylinder, robust,better fuel economy than an S54, and easily adapted to just about any chassis is bad?

Credit where due - the LS motor family is just about the best all-arounder engine family in decades.

Fucking snobbery.

[Fedaykin528e]

http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/pts/5035865437.html

This might be fun.. or at least sound good? STi EJ25. Maybe I'm just in an uncharacteristically JDM mode today. A Toyota V12 would also be cool.

[leadphut]

Anyone suggesting a LS motor, please show yourself the door

Simple, compact, LTW, inexpensive, reliable and any HP desired. Try applying those adjectives to any previously mentioned BMW engines.

Jake did a great job on this car

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=121997

[tig]

Anyone suggesting a LS motor, please show yourself the door

What a silly comment. What part of lighter than an S54, more power than an S54, more cheaply modded to S85+ power, more compact than just about anything other than a weeny 4-cylinder, robust,better fuel economy than an S54, and easily adapted to just about any chassis is bad?

Credit where due - the LS motor family is just about the best all-arounder engine family in decades.

Fucking snobbery.

I don't want an LS motor for irrational reasons. A key reason is found in the title of this thread. I just can't stand the idea of mixing metric and imperial parts on a car. I had to deal with this on my FJ40...and I eventually ridded it of all the crap POs had put on that used imperial fastners. The thought of ME doing that intentionally just makes my skin crawl.

[T_C_D]

I don't want an LS motor for irrational reasons. A key reason is found in the title of this thread. I just can't stand the idea of mixing metric and imperial parts on a car. I had to deal with this on my FJ40...and I eventually ridded it of all the crap POs had put on that used imperial fastners. The thought of ME doing that intentionally just makes my skin crawl.

LSx motors are 100% metric fasteners.

[tig]

I don't want an LS motor for irrational reasons. A key reason is found in the title of this thread. I just can't stand the idea of mixing metric and imperial parts on a car. I had to deal with this on my FJ40...and I eventually ridded it of all the crap POs had put on that used imperial fastners. The thought of ME doing that intentionally just makes my skin crawl.

LSx motors are 100% metric fasteners.

Really?!?! Hmmm....

I just assumed...

Hmm....

[Stevo12]

I don't want an LS motor for irrational reasons. A key reason is found in the title of this thread. I just can't stand the idea of mixing metric and imperial parts on a car. I had to deal with this on my FJ40...and I eventually ridded it of all the crap POs had put on that used imperial fastners. The thought of ME doing that intentionally just makes my skin crawl.

LSx motors are 100% metric fasteners.

Really?!?! Hmmm....

I just assumed...

Hmm....

Yup, I mentioned it...post #2

LS motor swaps, while awesome, have become ubiquitous to the point that it probably wouldn't garner the attention that wins shows. Even if it was blessed with The Kindel Experience (TM)

That's why I'd love to see an N54. While I'm sure they're out there, you hardly see them as much as you do LS or S5x motor swaps. If they can pull like a freight train in a lard-ass E60 or F10...I can only imagine how an N54-swapped E28 would do. It would be a much more, um, interesting experience for you as well (which is what you mentioned earlier)

Once you see how stupid easy it is to put an LS together (it's like playing with legos) then it loses some of its sparkle. Still kick-ass feat of engineering, though.

[Tammer in Philly]

Anyone suggesting a LS motor, please show yourself the door

What a silly comment. What part of lighter than an S54, more power than an S54, more cheaply modded to S85+ power, more compact than just about anything other than a weeny 4-cylinder, robust,better fuel economy than an S54, and easily adapted to just about any chassis is bad?

Credit where due - the LS motor family is just about the best all-arounder engine family in decades.

Fucking snobbery.

I don't want an LS motor for irrational reasons. A key reason is found in the title of this thread. I just can't stand the idea of mixing metric and imperial parts on a car. I had to deal with this on my FJ40...and I eventually ridded it of all the crap POs had put on that used imperial fastners. The thought of ME doing that intentionally just makes my skin crawl.

It's fine if you don't WANT it. None of this car shit is 100% rational, and you want want you want. No problem.

What isn't cool is conflating "I don't want it" (subjective) with "it sucks" (more objective, and in this case, wrong). That's what irritates me. No need to knock what you don't want, unless there is some objective or measurable reason that it is inferior to what you do want.

[harrypalmer]

I am of the view that it defeats the purpose of owning/driving a E28 if it doesn't have a m30 engine. That's where its soul resides. My brother's stock E28-mB34 and Z4M-S54 are so totally opposite and yet I understand the eagerness of wanting such engine swap like the much admired Sia's ride, or TDC's latest corvette engined mega fun rocket (there should be a drooling smily just for that car, although it would not look good I guess).

I'd vote for any of the below engine swaps but possibly would add a 6 Speed to match if feasible.

- B35 Turbo by T_C_D (You already did this engine conversion on Vlad)
- B34 US 8.1 compression Non-Cat with a Turbo by T_C_D
- B34 Euro 10.1 compression (dirty engine) Non-cat with a Turbo by T_C_D
- Stroker from Korman
- S38 M5 You know you really long for

Charlie, with all do respect let your sweat and money make the best award winning E28 but as WKohler once said it best in your own Vlad thread; don't make it into what is not.

[tig]

I am of the view that it defeats the purpose of owning/driving a E28 if it doesn't have a m30 engine. That's where its soul resides. My brother's stock E28-mB34 and Z4M-S54 are so totally opposite and yet I understand the eagerness of wanting such engine swap like the much admired Sia's ride, or TDC's latest corvette engined mega fun rocket (there should be a drooling smily just for that car, although it would not look good I guess).

I'd vote for any of the below engine swaps but possibly would add a 6 Speed to match if feasible.

- B35 Turbo by T_C_D (You already did this engine conversion on Vlad)
- B34 US 8.1 compression Non-Cat with a Turbo by T_C_D
- B34 Euro 10.1 compression (dirty engine) Non-cat with a Turbo by T_C_D
- Stroker from Korman
- S38 M5 You know you really long for

Charlie, with all do respect let your sweat and money make the best award winning E28 but as WKohler once said it best in your own Vlad thread; don't make it into what is not.

I hope that the fact that I love Vlad as much as I do, after pouring my heart & sweat (and money) into it, is evidence that I generally end up doing the right thing by me. Generally.

I appreciate everyone's perspectives (except, of course, Davintosh's electric ideas) here. I'm glad I can blow off steam with 'discussions' like this; it's a fantastic distraction for me...that actually makes me focus on my 'real' job better.

[tig]

The N54 idea is an interesting one. You know we had an N54 car until late last year: An E88 135i vert? That thing was pretty insane. Lovely exhaust notes too.

Weights: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=233682

From:

For years people have been referencing the engine weights on
http://www.bimmerforums.com/engine_faq.php
and
http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/enumber.html

Most of the engine weights on the 2 pages above are gotten from the weight BMW lists for the part "Short Engine" which can be seen on
http://bmwfans.info/

For example, this is the page for the US E36 M50 engine:
http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E36/S ... rt_engine/

Although the image for the "Short Engine" part shows the entire engine with both the block and head, these weights are commonly criticized and thought to be way too low and inaccurate for the entire assembled engine as it would be in the car.

I believe using the bmwfans.info is accurate, just not for the entire assembled engine. It obviously doesn't include manifolds and other parts attached to the engine.
But I do believe it includes at least the block and head as the picture shows. I think this because you can add up the weight of the block and head for the engine listed and see that it's much less than the "short engine".
For example:
http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E30/2 ... se/engine/
M20 Short Engine - 257 lb
M20 Engine block with piston - 116 lb
M20 Cylinder head - 26 lb
116 + 26 = 142
So you can see their weight for the "Short Engine" is much more than just the block and head.
If you wanted, you could add up all the engine parts weights listed on that page and see how close it comes to the short engine weight. You could essentially figure out what the short engine includes from this or what the engine weighs with certain parts included. But I know it must be at least the block and head.

Also, on the unix nerd site, he lists most of the engines at the same weight as the bimmerforums FAQ, however, he lists some engines at very different weights than are reported by the short engine weight and the bimmerforums FAQ. I consider his website unreliable for engine weights since he is not consistent with using BMW's "Short Engine" weight or weights from official documentation or press releases.

Also note that the bimmerforums FAQ doesn't list exactly the same weight as the short engine weights on bmwfans.info for all the engines, although for the most part they do.
For example, they list the M50 at 299 lbs which is the same as the bmwfans short engine weight but they list the M30 at 315 lbs which is inconsistent with the bmwfans short engine weight which lists the M30 at the same weight as the m50, ~299 lbs.


Now for some more real realistic engine weights...

This website:
http://www.usautoparts.net/
lists BMW engines and their specifications including official weights reported by BMW in technical information documents or press releases. I have confirmed some of the weights and cross referenced them with BMW's reported weight for the ones I could find; and all of the ones I could find the weights for matched up. Going off that, I think it's safe to assume the are consistent with BMW's reported weight. These weights are much more than the "Short Engine" OEM parts weights and I think they are the best source to compare the engine weights since they are consistent with BMW's official documented weights. And these weights are much closer to what people on these forums have weighed fully dressed engines at.
They list almost every BMW engine with specs, however, they don't have weights for that many of them, and there are no weights for engines such as the US iron block M52/S52, but weights for the euro aluminum version.

Here are weights I gathered from that website unless otherwise noted:

Iron block M50B20 and M50B25
engine _____ weight(kg) _ weight(lbs)
non-VANOS _ 194 _______ 427.7
VANOS _____ 198 _______ 436.5
http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/engines/m50.htm
The US S50 should be the same as the VANOS M50 and the S52 should be very close to this weight as well.

Aluminum block M52B20 and M52B25
engine _______ weight(kg) _ weight(lbs)
VANOS _______ 166 _______ 366
Double VANOS _ 177 _______ 390.2
http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/engines/m52.htm

Aluminum block M52B28
engine _______ weight(kg) _ weight(lbs)
VANOS _______ 170 _______ 374.8
Double VANOS _ 180 _______ 396.8
http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/engines/m52.htm

engine _ weight(kg) _ weight(lbs)
M54 ___ 170 _______ 375
http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/engines/m54.htm

engine _ weight(kg) _ weight(lbs)
M60 ___ 210 _______ 463
http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/engines/m60.htm

M62
engine _____ weight(kg) _ weight(lbs)
non-VANOS _ 219 _______ 482.8
VANOS _____ 221 _______ 487.2
http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/engines/m62.htm


Weights reported by BMW found elsewhere:

engine _____ weight(kg) _ weight(lbs)
S85 ________ 240 _______ 529
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_BMWs-M5- ... ticle.html

engine _____ weight(kg) _ weight(lbs)
S65 ________ 202 _______ 445
http://www.e90fanatics.com/pdf/the_new_bmw_m3.pdf

engine _____ weight(kg) _ weight(lbs)
S54 ________ 217 _______ 478
http://www.e90fanatics.com/pdf/the_new_bmw_m3.pdf
(States the the S65 is 15kg/33lbs less than the S54)

engine _____ weight(kg) _ weight(lbs)
N52 ________ 161 ______ 354.9 - Update: 326 lbs / 148 kg according to latest update below
N54 ________ 195 ______ 430
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N52
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N54
http://www.mwerks.com/artman/publish/fe ... _960.shtml

Update - info on the new N20 engine!:

taken from -
http://wardsauto.com/news-amp-analysis/ ... -4-cyl-bar

I will add on to this list if I find anything else or if anyone else does.
Unfortunately I can't find anything for the older engines such as M10, M20, M30, and M42 that are reported by BMW documents or press releases like the ones above.

Other data I've collected:

• M20 = 180.3 kg = 397.49 lbs
• M20 + G260 transmission = 497lbs
• M30 + G260 transmission = 540lbs
• M52B28 = 148.85 kg = 328.16 lbs
• S52 weighed this way is 406 lbs w/o tranny and 512 with
• M70 with all accessories, without harness and injectors, with flex plate, with starter: 234.8kg/ 516.6lb

[oldskool]

An older Porsche V8 would be the cat's ass. Ya feelin' it?

[tig]

An older Porsche V8 would be the cat's ass. Ya feelin' it?

Yes, I do believe I am.

[WilNJ]

Flat crank V8. Ford or Ferrari. Your choice.

[Cactus]

Get a 2.3 pinto engine. Standard wrenches won't work because all the fasteners are already rounded out.

[mgoblue]

Anyone suggesting a LS motor, please show yourself the door

Simple, compact, LTW, inexpensive, reliable and any HP desired. Try applying those adjectives to any previously mentioned BMW engines.

[bkbimmer]

Old school f1 turbo'd m10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Dbp_SuMHE

[Jelmer538i]

S38B38! Lots of torque and suits an E28 very well.

[geordi]

Let the wife pick the engine and go from there… you need her onboard with this project. I don't want to be sleeping in the back yard when I come visit.

Sounds like a lot of good suggestions here. You are making me feel like a pussy going back to rebuilding the original m30b28 euro that came with my opal green metallic e28.

But if you are soliciting more input…
- a turbo diesel variant

What ever direction you choose, it will be a winner