In the spirit of "pissing contests" e28 vs e39

[roundell]

believe it or not the e39 is a true drivers car
with the propper suspension upgrades much of the isolation
from the road is reduced as it was when i installed billy sports and h&r springs on my e28
i own two e39s --- a 2000 540i sport six speed and a 2000 540it sport wagon --- both with e39 sport seats- -plenty of thigh support
i think its awesome that someone like todd can learn to appreciate a propper modern 5er

[m.olennick]

As a side note, we'll have OBD2 m52, s52 programming by the end of the year.

How are you doing this? I know MS can not run double vanos. Are you using a piggyback, chip?

The M50 and S52 are single Vanos engines

[Pat]

I like e39s a lot, one of the best cars bmw ever built. As long as you dont mind doing thermostats and $600 DSC control units its no big deal. Any yea, i hate ihka, but what are you gonna do. Still prefer the e28 tho. Maybe thats why both cars i own are older than me

[BDK]

I agree with alot of what you said but those GM trannies suck ass....
replace it with a ZF when it comes due and it will....
Lifetime fluid,
yep it lasts the lifetime,
it just shortens the lifetime by half....
IIRC 80-120k is about normal...


congrats on the new car though...

you can pick up an E39 pretty cheap if you look around...
I found a 99 mit 39k that needed a PS front fender for $3750...
Blue over tan plus I really don't need another car right now....


won't the latest model TEC 3 run the Double Vanos??

[chrism]

I agree with alot of what you said but those GM trannies suck ass....
replace it with a ZF when it comes due and it will....
Lifetime fluid,
yep it lasts the lifetime,
it just shortens the lifetime by half....
IIRC 80-120k is about normal...

Changing the "lifetime" fluid isnt much of a problem. Nothing that had to be filled is sealed.
I have seen more Hondas and Toyotas need a new transissions before 100K than I have E39s. If there is a company in the world that can build an automatic transmission it is GM. Singing the praises of ZF, a company whos transmission
(4hp22) in an E28 will burn itself out while idleing, almost sounds crazy.

[Wiseguy]

As a side note, we'll have OBD2 m52, s52 programming by the end of the year.

How are you doing this? I know MS can not run double vanos. Are you using a piggyback, chip?

The M50 and S52 are single Vanos engines

Yes, but that's immaterial here. The M52 is indeed a single VANOS engine, but Todd's car uses the double vanos M52TU, which was installed from 9/98 production. Aluminum block as well. (Although a handful of Z3s used aluminum block single VANOS M52s).

[Wiseguy]

I agree with alot of what you said but those GM trannies suck ass....
replace it with a ZF when it comes due and it will....
Lifetime fluid,
yep it lasts the lifetime,
it just shortens the lifetime by half....
IIRC 80-120k is about normal...


congrats on the new car though...

you can pick up an E39 pretty cheap if you look around...
I found a 99 mit 39k that needed a PS front fender for $3750...
Blue over tan plus I really don't need another car right now....


won't the latest model TEC 3 run the Double Vanos??

Problem is, E39s are dramatically different beasts than E28s and infinitely more complex cars, you can't just do tranny swaps on them without serious electrical work.

If memory serves, the autobox in a 528i is rated to take up to about 230ft-lbs of torque.

[T_C_D]

If memory serves, the autobox in a 528i is rated to take up to about 230ft-lbs of torque.

That's correct. That means it'll likely take 350rwtq. If not I'll buy a core and have it built to take the additional power. I am also looking into the 5L50-E which is rated at 310ft-lbs and is externally physically identical and as far as I can tell uses the same electronics. It may just be a bell housing change away from working in the e39.

Todd

[Wiseguy]

If memory serves, the autobox in a 528i is rated to take up to about 230ft-lbs of torque.

That's correct. That means it'll likely take 350rwtq. If not I'll buy a core and have it built to take the additional power. I am also looking into the 5L50-E which is rated at 310ft-lbs and is externally physically identical and as far as I can tell uses the same electronics. It may just be a bell housing change away from working in the e39.

Todd

Apparently that Koeller guy.. Kirk or Kurt, I forget which, up in Michigan is capable of building these to take some serious torque.

I think he's with Autosports Unlimited or some such outfit.

Swapping trans itself should present no issues as long as the electronics are the same. Can your SW guy do a custom tranny tune? Well worth looking into... the stock software "slurs" the shifts to make them smoother, which is NOT what you want with boost.

[T_C_D]

Apparently that Koeller guy.. Kirk or Kurt, I forget which, up in Michigan is capable of building these to take some serious torque.

I think he's with Autosports Unlimited or some such outfit.

Swapping trans itself should present no issues as long as the electronics are the same. Can your SW guy do a custom tranny tune? Well worth looking into... the stock software "slurs" the shifts to make them smoother, which is NOT what you want with boost.

Thanks for the info. I doubt we'll spend any time tuning the tranny since most users will have a 5 speed.

[Wiseguy]

Thanks for the info. I doubt we'll spend any time tuning the tranny since most users will have a 5 speed.

More for durability on your end than anything else really...

[rundatrack]

Looks like a really nice project


Best of luck

[535ie28]

believe me, its a grweat car but heres the unnecessary...

- ice cold a/c -

couldn't care less about ac's, more weight=ice cold ac

- fantastic automatic transmission -

auto sucks, clutching and shifting is more for me auto is just too boring

- large trunk -

the trunk size in this is like 3/4 a lincoln town car trunk, then again, more trunk space = more weight allowed = sluggish as a frieghtliner semi


- good sound system -

more with the weight issue, id take it out, less weight=alot faster


- proper negative camber
- all aluminum subframes and suspension
- all aluminum engine

if you add these, where can you tune it then? tuning is fun, adding these things, yeah, probably a lot better, but tuning is better than having it there already. if you add that, theres not much to tune, not too much fun, this is where bmw steps up their luxury platform even more, and where weight kicks in. id rather have a properly tuned e28


- seating for two kids and an infant car seat in the rear -
thats why they made the accord, haha, or the camry, dare i say a minivan?
- airbag protection front and doors -
good on street, not so much for racing
not knocking you, or the car, id just prefer a manual track e28, my .02

[Tammer in Philly]

believe me, its a grweat car but heres the unnecessary...

- ice cold a/c -

couldn't care less about ac's, more weight=ice cold ac

- fantastic automatic transmission -

auto sucks, clutching and shifting is more for me :) auto is just too boring

- large trunk -

the trunk size in this is like 3/4 a lincoln town car trunk, then again, more trunk space = more weight allowed = sluggish as a frieghtliner semi


- good sound system -

more with the weight issue, id take it out, less weight=alot faster


- proper negative camber
- all aluminum subframes and suspension
- all aluminum engine

if you add these, where can you tune it then? tuning is fun, adding these things, yeah, probably a lot better, but tuning is better than having it there already. if you add that, theres not much to tune, not too much fun, this is where bmw steps up their luxury platform even more, and where weight kicks in. id rather have a properly tuned e28


- seating for two kids and an infant car seat in the rear -
thats why they made the accord, haha, or the camry, dare i say a minivan?
- airbag protection front and doors -
good on street, not so much for racing
not knocking you, or the car, id just prefer a manual track e28, my .02

Given all of that, why aren't you driving a boosted Miata?

-tammer

[Boru]

believe me, its a grweat car but heres the unnecessary...

- ice cold a/c -

couldn't care less about ac's, more weight=ice cold ac

blah, blah,etc.

I'm pretty sure Todd didn't buy it for you.

[Wiseguy]

Given all of that, why aren't you driving a boosted Miata?

-tammer

Amen.

If you want a lightweight BMW, what the hell are you doing with a 5 series? It's a mid-level Luxury car, one that happens to handle, stop and oftentimes go better than its' contemporaries but it is a luxury car nonetheless.

It wasn't build to compete with a Lotus.

[535ie28]

Given all of that, why aren't you driving a boosted Miata?

-tammer

Amen.

If you want a lightweight BMW, what the hell are you doing with a 5 series? It's a mid-level Luxury car, one that happens to handle, stop and oftentimes go better than its' contemporaries but it is a luxury car nonetheless.

It wasn't build to compete with a Lotus.

e28's are already light as it is, considering the weight of other sedan/saloons, volvo is just dumb, i dont like them, maybe a newer, but im stickin with the old for now.

and personally i cant fit in a miata, im 6'4" cant even fit in the new one!!!! and the only has around like 100hp (new one more, but still on the newer, alluminum crap like the bmw) and thats not fun. not a huge fan of real small eco cars either.

i want a challenge too, not too many full racing prepped e28's out there, sedans for that matter. plus i fit well in that car thats why i want to stick with my buddy, the e28.

hell, it will cost a lot of money, i knew that going in, but with the help of my friends and family, i will be able to do it, hopefully in the near future (if nobody buys the car)

whats so luxury nowadays with an old bmw? oooh moving seats, auto windows, and thats about it. bmws today should be considered luxury only. whats so luxury about old ones? you know what it is, its a potential record breaking sedan, and im ready for it.

honestly, given the choice of me being shorter, and an e28 or a miata, id still pick the e28, because im always up for a challenge

[Skeen]

Ahh, the contradictions. If you're up for a challenge, start with a damn 728i.

[turbodan]

Given all of that, why aren't you driving a boosted Miata?

-tammer

Amen.

If you want a lightweight BMW, what the hell are you doing with a 5 series? It's a mid-level Luxury car, one that happens to handle, stop and oftentimes go better than its' contemporaries but it is a luxury car nonetheless.

It wasn't build to compete with a Lotus.

e28's are already light as it is, considering the weight of other sedan/saloons, volvo is just dumb, i dont like them, maybe a newer, but im stickin with the old for now.

and personally i cant fit in a miata, im 6'4" cant even fit in the new one!!!! and the only has around like 100hp (new one more, but still on the newer, alluminum crap like the bmw) and thats not fun. not a huge fan of real small eco cars either.

i want a challenge too, not too many full racing prepped e28's out there, sedans for that matter. plus i fit well in that car thats why i want to stick with my buddy, the e28.

hell, it will cost a lot of money, i knew that going in, but with the help of my friends and family, i will be able to do it, hopefully in the near future (if nobody buys the car)

whats so luxury nowadays with an old bmw? oooh moving seats, auto windows, and thats about it. bmws today should be considered luxury only. whats so luxury about old ones? you know what it is, its a potential record breaking sedan, and im ready for it.

honestly, given the choice of me being shorter, and an e28 or a miata, id still pick the e28, because im always up for a challenge

How old are you? Honest question.

[alpinass]

Awesome car Todd! My good friend with a BMW repair shop loves the E34 and E39 - thou he drives a E30 with all the upgrades and a Euro E28 - recently restored. The women - mom & sister have E39's 528i's. They both love them. The only real problem I see with them is the front ends- lower aluminum control arms and they EAT front rotors......He has changes the front rotors&pads 3-4 times on his mom's car. he put a top of the line business class radio/cd in - sounds great.

Best of luck with the newbie in the stable.

[bIGjake]

damn, i always love the e39s, just dont have enough money, but if i could, id get a dinan 5, there the shit

[FastFiver]

How old are you? Honest question.

Haha, I was thinking the same thing... he sounds like a jr. super eurobeat... noob-ish

[Tammer in Philly]

e28's are already light as it is, considering the weight of other sedan/saloons,

3200 lbs, give or take, isn't light by modern or 20-year-old standards. Lighter than an E39, certainly, but even the E46 doesn't outweigh an E28 (AWD versions, convertibles, and M3 excepted). "Light" for a street car is <3000 lbs; for a track car it's more like 2500 or 2000 lbs. Huge difference.

and personally i cant fit in a miata, im 6'4" cant even fit in the new one!!!!

Okay, that's valid.

and the only has around like 100hp (new one more, but still on the newer, alluminum crap like the bmw) and thats not fun.

I said 'boosted.' The Flyin' Miata kits routinely put 250 hp to the wheels, and they're not that expensive. In a car the size and weight of a Miata, that's nothing to sneeze at.

i want a challenge too, not too many full racing prepped e28's out there, sedans for that matter.

Last I checked, all E28s are sedans. There are racing E28s and you won't be breaking any new ground, if that's your thing. Most people have moved to newer cars for racing for a reason. They are better.

whats so luxury nowadays with an old bmw? oooh moving seats, auto windows, and thats about it. bmws today should be considered luxury only. whats so luxury about old ones? you know what it is, its a potential record breaking sedan, and im ready for it.

What records will you be breaking?

-tammer

[wkohler]

i want a challenge too, not too many full racing prepped e28's out there, sedans for that matter.

Last I checked, all E28s are sedans. There are racing E28s and you won't be breaking any new ground, if that's your thing. Most people have moved to newer cars for racing for a reason. They are better.

-tammer

Uhhh, don't forget about the touring!

Couldn't resist.

[bIGjake]

Given all of that, why aren't you driving a boosted Miata?

-tammer

Amen.

If you want a lightweight BMW, what the hell are you doing with a 5 series? It's a mid-level Luxury car, one that happens to handle, stop and oftentimes go better than its' contemporaries but it is a luxury car nonetheless.

It wasn't build to compete with a Lotus.

e28's are already light as it is, considering the weight of other sedan/saloons, volvo is just dumb, i dont like them, maybe a newer, but im stickin with the old for now.

and personally i cant fit in a miata, im 6'4" cant even fit in the new one!!!! and the only has around like 100hp (new one more, but still on the newer, alluminum crap like the bmw) and thats not fun. not a huge fan of real small eco cars either.

honestly, ur dumb, im 6'8", and i own a miata, a 98, and i took out the door panels and got a custom made racing seat, and i welded my own seat brakets in, and cut out some of the dash, and i have more than enough room, hell, thered be no prob if i was "only 6'4", so dont bich, you dont have a clue what tall is, my dad is 7'2" imagine how he feels

[Matt]

my dad is 7'2" imagine how he feels

He probably feels like a dumbass for being part of at least 2 generations of family that screw around with cars instead of being NBA millionaries

[turbodan]

Given all of that, why aren't you driving a boosted Miata?

-tammer

Amen.

If you want a lightweight BMW, what the hell are you doing with a 5 series? It's a mid-level Luxury car, one that happens to handle, stop and oftentimes go better than its' contemporaries but it is a luxury car nonetheless.

It wasn't build to compete with a Lotus.

e28's are already light as it is, considering the weight of other sedan/saloons, volvo is just dumb, i dont like them, maybe a newer, but im stickin with the old for now.

and personally i cant fit in a miata, im 6'4" cant even fit in the new one!!!! and the only has around like 100hp (new one more, but still on the newer, alluminum crap like the bmw) and thats not fun. not a huge fan of real small eco cars either.

honestly, ur dumb, im 6'8", and i own a miata, a 98, and i took out the door panels and got a custom made racing seat, and i welded my own seat brakets in, and cut out some of the dash, and i have more than enough room, hell, thered be no prob if i was "only 6'4", so dont bich, you dont have a clue what tall is, my dad is 7'2" imagine how he feels

No need to some off so rude and offensive. You had to modify the shit out of this Miata to fit in it. I would think you of all people would understand where he's coming from. Cutting the hell out of a dash and relocating seats isn't reasonable for some people.

[Wildstoats]

my dad is 7'2" imagine how he feels

Light-headed from the lack of oxygen at that elevation?

Edit - Thank you post Nazis.

[Skeen]

Lack of altitude? You might want to rethink that response.

[FastFiver]

Lack of altitude? You might want to rethink that response.

We are now all dumber for being involved in this thread...