MyE28.com

Sweeney

I dont understand how duke is acting up in this thread. I think that the only thing is that he thinks that the computer will do a better job with throttle control than he thinks is humanly possible. Just a opinion....its his opinion but its nothing to say that he is whining...

I do believe that his experience with launching high powered e28's is not compariable to yours...

I think the debate is if the racelogic is necessary for 4-450rwhp vs the quality of the product.

Duke
I think that its just a opinion of other board members that you may not need this product for your application. Its more getting used to launching the car with more finesse versus a binary fashion.

We are all living and learning....but keep communications open so that we can learn from others mistakes or trials...

Best of luck to you both

If Duke ever posts about the finely tuned inner workings of his lower gastrointestinal tract, some of you will likely sew your bungholes shut just to prove him wrong.

DMNaskale wrote:If Duke ever posts about the finely tuned inner workings of his lower gastrointestinal tract, some of you will likely sew your bungholes shut just to prove him wrong.

Not me.

DMNaskale wrote:If Duke ever posts about the finely tuned inner workings of his lower gastrointestinal tract, some of you will likely sew your bungholes shut just to prove him wrong.

How can you have an opinion on this... Have you actually done it?

Sweeney wrote:

DMNaskale wrote:If Duke ever posts about the finely tuned inner workings of his lower gastrointestinal tract, some of you will likely sew your bungholes shut just to prove him wrong.

How can you have an opinion on this... Have you actually done it?

touche

rundatrack wrote:Sweeney

I dont understand how duke is acting up in this thread. I think that the only thing is that he thinks that the computer will do a better job with throttle control than he thinks is humanly possible. Just a opinion....its his opinion but its nothing to say that he is whining...

I do believe that his experience with launching high powered e28's is not compariable to yours...

I think the debate is if the racelogic is necessary for 4-450rwhp vs the quality of the product.

Duke
I think that its just a opinion of other board members that you may not need this product for your application. Its more getting used to launching the car with more finesse versus a binary fashion.

We are all living and learning....but keep communications open so that we can learn from others mistakes or trials...

Best of luck to you both

I re-read Dukes comments that were in response to our replies to Scott... I stand by my assessment of his behavior.

Sweeney wrote: I re-read Dukes comments that were in response to our replies to Scott... I stand by my assessment of his behavior.

So you guys absolutely in no way intended that response to Scottie to be another little dig at Duke? This whole thread was originally just to point out an item for sale, and the item was sold as a response to it. But the Duke bashing started instantly. I don't see anywhere that Duke was incorrect in his response, and he was consistently provoked and showed more restraint than usual in this one.

Just having a favorable opinion on the RLTC system does not reflect on the driving skills of the opinion holder. Gadgets are cool as long as they have an OFF switch.

DMNaskale wrote: So you guys absolutely in no way intended that response to Scottie to be another little dig at Duke? This whole thread was originally just to point out an item for sale, and the item was sold as a response to it. But the Duke bashing started instantly. I don't see anywhere that Duke was incorrect in his response, and he was consistently provoked and showed more restraint than usual in this one.

+1

My response was in no way a dig towards Duke. Duke wasn't even on the radar as it was purely a response (if you want to even call it that) to Scott's comment.

Duke and Scott obviously like the system. I see no reason for it in MY car just as I see no need for ABS... I don't like ABS.

Duke bringing up the avionics of the Apache is a ridiculous analogy. The Apache NEEDS those avionics to do its job. An E28 doesn't NEED traction control whether it has 13 Hp or 937.8Hp.

If you want every advantage available to make your car accelerate as fast as possible fine. He needs to accept that some people simply don't want this stuff... nothing wrong either way.

I think it's already been established that a good TC setup (like RL) makes any caliber driver faster on the track and safer on the street. 95% of new cars come with TC for safety reasons, and the top tiers of motorsport use TC in a race setting for performance reasons. Safety on the Street and Performance on the Track sounds like a win to me.

Arguing against the merits of having TC on a street/track vehicle is just being obtuse.

If a few of you want to make the argument that Duke should spend his time and money elsewhere, that's fine, but if you're suggesting that TC in general is not helpful, you're simply factually incorrect. Don't embarass yourselves simply to try to be argumentative.

Matt wrote:I think it's already been established that a good TC setup (like RL) makes any caliber driver faster on the track and safer on the street. 95% of new cars come with TC for safety reasons, and the top tiers of motorsport use TC in a race setting for performance reasons. Safety on the Street and Performance on the Track sounds like a win to me.

Arguing against the merits of having TC on a street/track vehicle is just being obtuse.

If a few of you want to make the argument that Duke should spend his time and money elsewhere, that's fine, but if you're suggesting that TC in general is not helpful, you're simply factually incorrect. Don't embarass yourselves simply to try to be argumentative.

The arguement isn't about whether it works or not but purely the preferance to use it.

I do not think I ever said it was garbage or useless or anything else. I said I do not want it. Just like I do not want it on my 193hp e39 unless it is snowing.

I did say that it did not work for Duke at the dragstrip and that is factual. That cannot be argued. I would love for nothing else than for Duke to take his car back to the dragstrip and successfully use TC to make his car quicker than it could otherwise be on street tires.

You know sometimes I can see why we lose good members here....

Duke has always posted the good and bad of his builds,
and there has been plenty of both and he has posted all...

some of you post only the good and never the F*ck Up's...
you should be ashamed of yourself for being such POS!!!

IMO,
Duke does it so that everyone can learn from his mistakes and his good ideas....
but either way we hear about it, the good, the bad and ugly...

If you want the TC, great
if not,
STFU,
the thread was for an item FS not for feedback about said item...
this thread shouldn't have been more than 4-5 posts not 3 pages...

It's funny,
always in life,
there will be people who want to be the man and then there will be people who would rather sit back and criticize the man and his trying something and failing.....
atleast he has the balls to try new things
and succeed or fail,
he still tried and that's better than most people here....

WTF guys, come on....

I wish the traction control on my m3 had the features of the racelogic unit. It is certainly fun to just press that button & play tail happy, but I've spun my m3, at more than modest speeds. I don't much care for that bile in the back of the throat sensation, with my heart beating 3 times the usual rate. Please don't argue that we haven't all been too bold behind the wheel. Traction control is a nice thing for those who appreciate it. Maybe what I want is more of a stability control item, that kicks in just before the thing leaves the intended pavement.

Matt wrote:Arguing against the merits of having TC on a street/track vehicle is just being obtuse

IMO the TC on new street cars doesn't make the cars faster or better; it saves idiot drivers from themselves so that someone with more money than skill can buy a 450 HP Corvette and play hero. 99.9% of street cars are faster on the track with a decent--not necessarily great--driver and the TC switched off. The PSM system on newer P-cars and the track setting on the Z06 active handling system are exceptions in that they allow slip and are tuned for aggressive driving--and the RaceLogic is much more like these systems.

I just drove an E60 528i. While it was much better than I wanted it to be (I really wanted to dislike it), I was surprised/impressed by the car's competence. But making laps around a traffic circle (at the salesman's bidding in a fairly empty industrial park), I think I could have done better without DSC engaged. The system was much less intrusive than older versions, however. So progress marches on.

The nice thing about RL is that it's fully adjustable. If Duke wants to run without it, he can switch it off. For a car that will see some inclement weather it's certainly not a bad idea.

-tammer

BNC wrote: IMO,
Duke does it so that everyone can learn from his mistakes and his good ideas....
but either way we hear about it, the good, the bad and ugly...

IIt's funny,
always in life,
there will be people who want to be the man and then there will be people who would rather sit back and criticize the man and his trying something and failing.....
atleast he has the balls to try new things
and succeed or fail,
he still tried and that's better than most people here....

We need a new category on the board.

All Hail King Duke

No posts questioning anything Duke says will be allowed. Duke will approve the people allowed to post there and be allowed to ban anyone he sees fit to ban. This way Duke and his legions of followers can all comiserate about how Duke has forged the way and does everything for the greater good.

This will satisfy Duke's need to be #1 and all those who need to follow someone without question.

Jeremy, please take care of this and do not authorize me nor Sweeney to post in that category.

Martin in BellevueWA wrote:I wish the traction control on my m3 had the features of the racelogic unit. It is certainly fun to just press that button & play tail happy, but I've spun my m3, at more than modest speeds. I don't much care for that bile in the back of the throat sensation, with my heart beating 3 times the usual rate. Please don't argue that we haven't all been too bold behind the wheel. Traction control is a nice thing for those who appreciate it. Maybe what I want is more of a stability control item, that kicks in just before the thing leaves the intended pavement.

Sorry but I had to start laughing at this...I definately know that feeling of oh god be with me because if ti is based on this load in my draws I am going to see you soon moments..



**Everyone take a deep breath and RELAX please

We need a new category on the board.

All Hail King Duke

oh, f*cking grow up....

I just get tired of seeing everyone shoot Duke down...

I have known you and Duke along time and this recent petty BS is killing me....

yeah, I don't have to read it,
you're right but
I like both of you and
you guys have known each other along time .....
Duke offered a truce and still you keep picking the scab...

Yeah, I give Duke shit too and I stick up for him,
just as I do and have done for you....

anyone who asks me about turbo's,
the only company I mention is TCD....

BNC wrote: Duke offered a truce and still you keep picking the scab...

T_C_D wrote: We need a new category on the board.

All Hail King Duke

No posts questioning anything Duke says will be allowed. Duke will approve the people allowed to post there and be allowed to ban anyone he sees fit to ban. This way Duke and his legions of followers can all comiserate about how Duke has forged the way and does everything for the greater good.

This will satisfy Duke's need to be #1 and all those who need to follow someone without question.

Jeremy, please take care of this and do not authorize me nor Sweeney to post in that category.

I really don't think that is needed, I don't see anyone stroking Duke around here. Quite the opposite lately. A little good natured ribbing is fine, but the constant piling on is tiresome. Everyone knows Duke has a bold forum personality and he puts it all out there, sometimes way out there. For the good and the bad. But I rarely if ever get the feeling he is being mean or spiteful. I can't say that about some of the posts critical of him lately.

Tammer in Philly wrote:

Matt wrote:Arguing against the merits of having TC on a street/track vehicle is just being obtuse

IMO the TC on new street cars doesn't make the cars faster or better; it saves idiot drivers from themselves so that someone with more money than skill can buy a 450 HP Corvette and play hero. 99.9% of street cars are faster on the track with a decent--not necessarily great--driver and the TC switched off. The PSM system on newer P-cars and the track setting on the Z06 active handling system are exceptions in that they allow slip and are tuned for aggressive driving--and the RaceLogic is much more like these systems.

I just drove an E60 528i. While it was much better than I wanted it to be (I really wanted to dislike it), I was surprised/impressed by the car's competence. But making laps around a traffic circle (at the salesman's bidding in a fairly empty industrial park), I think I could have done better without DSC engaged. The system was much less intrusive than older versions, however. So progress marches on.

The nice thing about RL is that it's fully adjustable. If Duke wants to run without it, he can switch it off. For a car that will see some inclement weather it's certainly not a bad idea.

-tammer

I have done some autocrosses recently in a new Mustang GT and a C6 Vette. If you forget to turn off the traction control, you have wasted a run. The Vette does have the option of the Competitive Driving Mode, which seems to work pretty well in that it lets you drive the car. I didn't really notice it when I used it, but I didn't get way out of shape either. The bottom line is, these cars suck for fun with the traction control engaged.

If we actually made people learn how to drive in this country electronic driving aids wouldn’t be a big deal. But Traction Control and Stability Control do help unskilled drivers and they do save lives, and they are relatively cheap technology so I think they are a good thing. If they keep some jackass from piling into someone I care about someday then they are a great thing. But I will always believe teaching proper driving and true car control would be the most effective safety program we could ever have.

As far as the RLTC, it would be a neat toy. In an extreme situation, either limited traction, high power, or some of both, it can allow the car to do things that even the most skilled driver may not be able to. I dislike all-wheel drive cars in most situations, too much traction is boring. But too little can sometimes cause performance driving to become no longer fun.

Everyone knows Duke has a bold forum personality and he puts it all out there, sometimes way out there

A lot of guys don't really know Duke and what he does for a living. This is a big part of why he has the online personna he has. The fact that Duke is a soldier with combat experience is what drives his on board personality. The military is an in your face experience that many on this forum will never experience. In Dukes world it's about dominating the opposition, kill or be killed. His fascination with tech gadgets is also driven by his military experience. The military builds much more capability into equipment, mainly for redundancy, therefore things become complicated. Finally Duke flies the Apache, which means he was probably at the top of his graduating class in basic flight school.

FWIW: I left the military over 25 years ago (before the modern PC Military of today), yet a part of the aggressive military mentality instilled into me as a young man is still there.

Rich

Rich Euro M5 wrote:

Everyone knows Duke has a bold forum personality and he puts it all out there, sometimes way out there

A lot of guys don't really know Duke and what he does for a living. This is a big part of why he has the online personna he has. The fact that Duke is a soldier with combat experience is what drives his on board personality. The military is an in your face experience that many on this forum will never experience. In Dukes world it's about dominating the opposition, kill or be killed. His fascination with tech gadgets is also driven by his military experience. The military builds much more capability into equipment, mainly for redundancy, therefore things become complicated. Finally Duke flies the Apache, which means he was probably at the top of his graduating class in basic flight school.

FWIW: I left the military over 25 years ago (before the modern PC Military of today), yet a part of the aggressive military mentality instilled into me as a young man is still there.

Rich

I think among board regulars Duke's career is common knowledge. Maybe some people don't entirely get the military angle, but Duke's board personality is not entirely representative of his real life personality anyway. This issue really goes back to a specific example of a common theme on the board lately, posts getting nasty for no good reason. I don't know if the numbers back it up, but my perception is that if you see a thread hitting 3 or more pages lately, it is very likely something ugly is going on. It is not all about Duke and TCD and their egos in a pit fight, although a cessation of hostilities on that front would be a nice start.

Thanks for the link Duke.

Unfortunately you lost me when you started talking about tire ratings from Car and Driver, as well as the name Goodyear. Hate to break the news but they haven't had a quality product in years. Additionally Car and Driver has been caught a few times in the past with bias toward certain makes -- American car editorials aren't worth much any more. That is off topic though.

The unit has already sold it looks like.

It's a big hard drive. Apparently, there's room for everyone's opinion.

Well let me explain my comment about every e28 with > 300hp needing traction control. Unlike some of the guys on this board, I don't posess gonads the size of coconuts.

I am a good driver, but I like to be safe, especially on the street, especially when it is raining and I have passengers in the car. Also, I'd like my e28 to stay in the condition it's in. I don't want to slide into a curb, or fly off a cliff into the Pacific.

Also--and this is my opinion of the spirit of the e28--I think of the e28 as one of BMWs more "luxury-oriented" models. I do not think of my M5 as an "all-manual, no-computer aids" race car. I don't think BMW thought of the car like that either.

If I want to drive without driver aids, I can drive my 2002. It makes my M5 feel like a Lincoln Town Car. I mean don't get me wrong, my M5 is a very fast car, but my 2002 is sick-in-the-head. So the comment I made was keeping with what I think is the spirit of the e28.

Of course, not everyone has the same opinion, and I can respect that.

I think that if BMW had the technology available in the 80's to include traction control on the M5, they would have made it an option. I believe that traction control is keeping the spirit of what the e28 is all about: a high performance, high technology sedan.

As an aside, to those of you who mock traction control. The Race Logic unit is adjustable. You can dial in zero slip, or you can dial in a percentage of the slip that you want. So it is possible to drive at the limits of the car and driver (and beyond) and still be in a relatively safe (and extremely fast) zone, far faster than any human could

Yes, you can drive very fast with traction control and still be a mediocre driver. That is a very real problem and there is no excuse for that. If your TC car is the only car you have, you should turn it off once in a while (when you are in a safe area, preferably on the track) and practice your driving.

Some of you commented on your experience with factory TC systems have noted that they are not adjustable and not very much fun, and not as fast as they could be if they allowed some over steer. For example the one on my 2007 350CLK allows zero slip and you can't adjust it for fun factor. But in so far as being safe, I have no problem trusting the systems on that car. I have thoroughly tested them and they are incredibly smart.

And to those of you who say that such a system is a complete waste in an e28, I'll mention one feature I will soon have that you won't:

a traction control on/off switch!