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Can a TCD manifold flow 550hp...?

Discussion pertaining to positive pressure E28s.
Jeremy
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 15844
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Connecticut

Post by Jeremy »

chrism wrote:I understand this car/engine combination has never been on a dyno.
Wheres the graph?
Ken H. wrote: Hmmmm. Not entirely true. Paul built an M30 for a guy in CT that went ~620 or so. This used a GT-35 and a much-modified TCD log manifold.
Yea, it's a little weird that none of the owners in CT have seen this car, lol. Only Duke and Paul Burke know about it. Is the owner some kind of recluse who only pets the car in his garage or something? Evidently he's not involved in any of the local enthusiast communities, or at least none that I have any involvement with.

Jeremy
Ken H.
Posts: 1819
Joined: Dec 04, 2006 8:43 PM
Location: Suburban Gomorrah

Post by Ken H. »

Jeremy wrote:Yea, it's a little weird that none of the owners in CT have seen this car, lol. Only Duke and Paul Burke know about it. Is the owner some kind of recluse who only pets the car in his garage or something? Evidently he's not involved in any of the local enthusiast communities, or at least none that I have any involvement with.

Jeremy
FWIW, I've got a few photos of the car from the owner and the motor from Paul. Nothing out of the ordinary; it's a box-stock appearing E32.
Paul gave me the owner's name back in December of 2006. My email thread with the owner was very brief--just a couple of exchanges then . . .zip.
Somewhere along the way there were a few pics of the motor that got posted on the forum as "TCD eye candy;" this based on the visibility of a TCD exhaust manifold.

I've spoken with PB a couple of times about the motor. He's the source on the power level. I asked him about the owner once. PB said the guy is involved with sales at one of the major pharmaceutical companies and doesn't hang on the car forums. To each his own, I guess. :dunno:

As far as the HP is concerned. All I can say is I have never found Paul to BS about what his motors can produce; if that # was an estimate, it's probably a tad low, if anything. Paul said he drew extensively on what he'd done in the Lucifer's Hammer build to do this M30, so I have no reason to doubt his veracity.

I am aware that Paul has gotten a B35 head to flow upwards of 235 cfm on a flow bench. That being said, a GT-35 @ 15 psi on this motor should do the stated 620 hp . . .values supported by the not2fast turbo model.

So at least in my view I believe the numbers are credible, based on circumstantial evidence. I'd love to see the graphs as well; not because I'm skeptical, but to see their configuration.
bimmerboy
Posts: 390
Joined: Oct 18, 2006 7:06 PM
Location: United States

Re: Good point...

Post by bimmerboy »

Duke wrote:
bimmerboy wrote: There used to be a guy on this board from a scandi country, finland maybe, he had 617hp from a stock internal m30 and i think an b35 head and performance cam.
Forgot about him. He had a tubular manifold with a large top mount turbo. I am willing to bet the car did not last long.
I absolutely garantee the car did not last long. Didn't i say that? I didn't know he had a tubular manifold, but i'd bet it wasn't too mathematical. Wouldn't be surprised if a TCD was just as good. Duke, that stuff isn't for you, you would not ever be satisfied with a simple, dirty, diy system that could support that kind of power, there's no way to make 500hp cheaply, reliably, and oem-like. But that doesn't mean all of us can't.

To the OP, you should probably lower your goals if your completely unsure of how to get there. Either that or be ready to spend a LOT.
Duke
Posts: 9986
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Ormond Beach, FL

Re: Good point...

Post by Duke »

bimmerboy wrote: you would not ever be satisfied with a simple, dirty, diy system that could support that kind of power, there's no way to make 500hp cheaply, reliably, and oem-like.
Thats right, reality has too much to do with my world.
Rich Euro M5
Posts: 6098
Joined: Mar 10, 2006 6:20 AM
Location: Klein, Texas

Post by Rich Euro M5 »

Jeremy wrote: I'd think 3.7L would leave plenty of wall if you used the s38b36 or b38 crank.
Jeremy,

The S38B36 has the same stroke as a stock M30. The S38B38 crank or a custom stroker crank is the only way you get a M30 above 3.7 liters.

Rich
Jeremy
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 15844
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Connecticut

Post by Jeremy »

Rich Euro M5 wrote:
Jeremy wrote: I'd think 3.7L would leave plenty of wall if you used the s38b36 or b38 crank.
Jeremy,

The S38B36 has the same stroke as a stock M30. The S38B38 crank or a custom stroker crank is the only way you get a M30 above 3.7 liters.

Rich
D'oh, thanks. I keep forgetting that.
Ben
Posts: 1214
Joined: Mar 10, 2006 12:36 AM
Location: New Haven, CT

Post by Ben »

Jeremy wrote:
chrism wrote:I understand this car/engine combination has never been on a dyno.
Wheres the graph?
Ken H. wrote: Hmmmm. Not entirely true. Paul built an M30 for a guy in CT that went ~620 or so. This used a GT-35 and a much-modified TCD log manifold.
Yea, it's a little weird that none of the owners in CT have seen this car, lol. Only Duke and Paul Burke know about it. Is the owner some kind of recluse who only pets the car in his garage or something? Evidently he's not involved in any of the local enthusiast communities, or at least none that I have any involvement with.

Jeremy
Jeremy,

The car is an E32 735iL, and it is very nice. The owner actually lurks here, but doesn't like to do post due to the "drama" that usually occurs online.

Last time I saw it was a few months ago, and he was in the middle of installing some form of Standalone EMS.

Ben
bimmerboy
Posts: 390
Joined: Oct 18, 2006 7:06 PM
Location: United States

Re: Good point...

Post by bimmerboy »

raceaddic wrote:
my car has now run 1429 miles with no problems (except 2 gearboxes) :lol: just regular oil change stock M30B35 engine with some small mods, Cam and ported head and after market engine management, run 11.64@1/4mile with 130 mile trap speed

think i can answer most of the questions you can come up with about M30 and M106-M102 :D
What turbo and what pressure? Stock b35? you didn't go to the b34's lower compression?
raceaddic
Posts: 43
Joined: Oct 09, 2006 3:56 AM
Location: Sweden

Re: Good point...

Post by raceaddic »

bimmerboy wrote:
raceaddic wrote:
my car has now run 1429 miles with no problems (except 2 gearboxes) :lol: just regular oil change stock M30B35 engine with some small mods, Cam and ported head and after market engine management, run 11.64@1/4mile with 130 mile trap speed

think i can answer most of the questions you can come up with about M30 and M106-M102 :D
What turbo and what pressure? Stock b35? you didn't go to the b34's lower compression?
i lathe the pistons flat and modified the combustion chambers
and use a MLS gasket with ARP studs. Turbo is a Borg Warner S366 66mm in and 76 out with AR 1:10 run 20psi boost, had 14 psi at 3000 full pressure at 3500rpm

Borg Warner S300 is a really fast spooling turbo

there is no M30B34 low comps. here in Sweden just the M106 but the piston price is to high i think, and no one had tried this concept before with so high boost on a stock bottom.
bimmerboy
Posts: 390
Joined: Oct 18, 2006 7:06 PM
Location: United States

Post by bimmerboy »

I've got an s300! I like what i hear. Sweden didn't get the cat version of the b34?
What manifold? Custom or m106?
raceaddic
Posts: 43
Joined: Oct 09, 2006 3:56 AM
Location: Sweden

Post by raceaddic »

no we got the 204 hp puls air model, Custom non equal tubular manifold

but this is OT if you want to know more start a new tread :banana:
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