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Why are you adjusting the center screw on the Begi? Sounds like you have a lazy narrowband o2 sensor.

T_C_D wrote:Why are you adjusting the center screw on the Begi? Sounds like you have a lazy narrowband o2 sensor.

Isn't the adjustment of the big screw in the middle the way you get the numbers to were they are supposed to be?
Well thats what I've been told......
O2 sensor is a brand new 30-4100..

grey ghost wrote:

T_C_D wrote:Why are you adjusting the center screw on the Begi? Sounds like you have a lazy narrowband o2 sensor.

Isn't the adjustment of the big screw in the middle the way you get the numbers to were they are supposed to be?
Well thats what I've been told......
O2 sensor is a brand new 30-4100..

You were told wrong. I guess you don't have instructions? (key to avoiding builds from hell) The screw on the side is for adjusting the ratio of additional fuel pressure per psi of boost. Left = less fuel. The center allen bolt is used to adjust the initial fuel psi at the onset of boost. It should be about 50.psi.

T_C_D wrote:

grey ghost wrote:

T_C_D wrote:Why are you adjusting the center screw on the Begi? Sounds like you have a lazy narrowband o2 sensor.

Isn't the adjustment of the big screw in the middle the way you get the numbers to were they are supposed to be?
Well thats what I've been told......
O2 sensor is a brand new 30-4100..

You were told wrong. I guess you don't have instructions? (key to avoiding builds from hell) The screw on the side is for adjusting the ratio of additional fuel pressure per psi of boost. Left = less fuel. The center allen bolt is used to adjust the initial fuel psi at the onset of boost. It should be about 50.psi.

OK. got you.
Now for the non boost issue. What could be causing my intermittent rich running issue.....

OK. I reread the instructions and understand now.
At idle my fuel pressure is 38psi.
When I remover the vacuum hose from the begi the pressure is at 50psi. Thats with a 1/4 turn adjustment of the center screw.
AFR is between 14.3-15.3

So at this point my numbers are good as far as fuel pressure and AFRs at idle are concern.

When time has allowed, I've been religiously reading this build. All glorious 13 pages of it. Its like a novella of sorts. I think its almost time for a movie. The Highs. The Lows. I'm sure there's a potential screenwriter out there somewhere. That being said, I am amazed at your ability to keep positive with this project, that along with your skill set(you performed major surgery on one of the planets most famous piston pumps. This was a great inspirational reading journey. I actually winced a couple times and slowly paged down at head #2....and 3. I am slowly collecting the parts needed for my e24 boost build as you know, and I must let you know this thread has proved invaluable to me. It has inadvertently allowed countless others like myself, the direction needed to pull off a build of this complexity. Thanks for that. And I would be remiss not to acknowledge the community that makes up this forum. Its more like a family collective, world-wide. Glad I finally made it here.And oh yeah-......... You win Grey. "You've got to say, I think that if I keep working at this and want it badly enough I can have it. It's called perseverance."~Lee Iacocca~

Thanks mpowertech. Thats quite nice of you to say....

Wet air filter.


I've been having issues with an occasional rich running condition and found one issue that could cause it and fixed it..
BUT.....
Over the last three weeks it rained a few times and I've been out with the car twice.
After driving a while in the rain, ~15 miles, the car started to run rich, so I figured the problem I found was not the fix.
I came home and did some searching on the web and found a few post that said a wet air filter could cause a rich running condition.
At the same time, there were people rebutting that claim.
Since I fixed the first issue, turbo cold side tubing close to the edge, I've driven the car about 300 miles, but in that 300 miles, the only time it ran rich was when it was raining.

So I fixed the cold side and drove for a few days without a single rich running issue. Then it rained, and it went rich again.
It may verywell be the quality, or lack thereof, the air filter that I have...

Is this possible?
Physically speaking, its harder to blow air through a wet towel than a dry one.
I found this post late last night so I didn't have time to pull the air filter to see how wet it was.

And once again, at idle, its getting enough air that the afr #s are right were they are supposed to be, bouncing between 14.3-15.3.

I would just buy another air filter and swap it when it runs rich and see if that gets rid of the problem.

Well I now know that its not the rain. Went to drop some parts off today and it was an 80 mile round trip and it went very rich on the way up, running in the 10s/11s/12s on normal driving and slighly rich on the way back runing in the 12s/low 13s.
But it only lasted about 10 miles.

And every once and a while it would peg rich at 10 for less then a second and I can feel the car make one bog and then back to normal.

Long time lurker, but I'm still a newbie.

That said: I enjoyed this article about turbo troubleshooting a few days ago.

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles ... oting.aspx

What happen guys? I feel like you abandoned me.....

This is about the random rich running issue, still.

On a whim today when I got back to the house this evening, I let the car idle for a bit. The rich running issue had just reared its ugly face a few miles earlier.

When the car was idling, I turned off the light and the heat and the afr went to were it should be, ~14.8.
I then turned the lights on high beam and the heat to full blast and the afr slowly ticked down to the low 12s.
I turned the lights and heat off and the afr went back up.
I did this about 15 times with the same results.
I also had the intercooler fan running.
So I'm pulling volatge from something that needs it.......

What I don't understand is that it does this during the day with the lights, radio, amp, and blower motors all off.
I've check, but will recheck all of my grounds....

Alternator is about 4 years old.
I had a multi meter on the battery just last week and it was reading in the 13s.

What do you think???

grey ghost wrote:When the car was idling, I turned off the light and the heat and the afr went to were it should be, ~14.8.
I then turned the lights on high beam and the heat to full blast and the afr slowly ticked down to the low 12s.
I turned the lights and heat off and the afr went back up.
I did this about 15 times with the same results.
I also had the intercooler fan running.
So I'm pulling volatge from something that needs it.......



What do you think???

I'd suggest not to get hung up on day vs night, that might cause you to go down the wrong path. Think purely in terms of load requirements and what's drawing current.

Weren't you running MS before you went FI? If so, you might want to take a look at how you interfaced the additional loads to the electrical buss when you turbo'd the car.

Rich

Rich Euro M5 wrote:

grey ghost wrote:When the car was idling, I turned off the light and the heat and the afr went to were it should be, ~14.8.
I then turned the lights on high beam and the heat to full blast and the afr slowly ticked down to the low 12s.
I turned the lights and heat off and the afr went back up.
I did this about 15 times with the same results.
I also had the intercooler fan running.
So I'm pulling volatge from something that needs it.......



What do you think???

I'd suggest not to get hung up on day vs night, that might cause you to go down the wrong path. Think purely in terms of load requirements and what's drawing current.

Weren't you running MS before you went FI? If so, you might want to take a look at how you interfaced the additional loads to the electrical buss when you turbo'd the car.

Rich

So I ran 140 miles worth of errands today and not once did it run rich, BUT, as soon as I turned on the lights and heat, here we go again.
I had the battery tested at autozone and it check'd out ok.
I was thinking about the alternator only being 4 yrs old but in mileage turns it probably has 150k miles on it, if not 170k.
I'm going to pull the alternator tomorrow and see what he regulator brushes look like.
I have a backup alternator if thats the case.
I will be doing some major eletrical trouble shooting over the next few days....

Perhaps the extra load puts you in a different cell that isn't
tuned properly.

I had this problem at first and just raised the kpa numbers so
when the fan/lights/radio/heater come on it still stays in the idle
sector.

So just turn all that crap on and see to what cells your dot
moves to. O2 corrections also helps.

It's fixed!
I had a few things connected to the small terminal next to the fuse box.
I moved them to the battery and all is good.....
Its running great with everything on......

grey ghost wrote:It's fixed!
I had a few things connected to the small terminal next to the fuse box.
I moved them to the battery and all is good.....
Its running great with everything on......

Great to hear !!!

What did you move to the battery terminal , and how much rated load in amperage?

Rich Euro M5 wrote:

grey ghost wrote:It's fixed!
I had a few things connected to the small terminal next to the fuse box.
I moved them to the battery and all is good.....
Its running great with everything on......

Great to hear !!!

What did you move to the battery terminal , and how much rated load in amperage?

I moved the wideband and the intercooler fan. I know the fan is 16amps, not sure what the wideband draws.
I think the wideband was the entire issue, as it was the only thing consistantly on.
adding the lights or the heat pushed it over the limit.

Spoke too soon. problem persists.
Going to recheck my grounds and clean all the contacts in the fusebox.

This has got to be one of the most inspirational and amazing turbo builds on this website.
I just read through all 13 pages and honestly thought you were going to end up selling. So glad you didn't, though.

I pulled the trunk battery ground wire, took the grinding wheel to the body and made sure there was bare metal at the connection. It is ground to one the three strut nuts.
Pulled all fuses and cleaned fuse tips and fuse box connections with my dremel.
Put a new regulator in the alternator two days ago, the brushed were 2mm within tolerance, but it would have needed it soon anyway.
Pulled out the multi meter and with everything running (high beams,, fogs, radio/amp, blower motor on high, wind shield wipers, intercooler fan) I'm getting like 13.8 volts.
But as I turn on each system, the afr gooahj slowly ticks down to the 10s.
As I turn off each system, it does the reverse.
I have one ground going from the motor mount to the frame and the other one that goes from the firewall to the lower last nut on the valve cover.
What am I missing in terms of grounds. Am I missing one?
I have a Bentley, but it fell apart and all the electrical schematics in the back are MIA.

Does your alternator have rubber bushings in the mounting lugs, or are they solid aluminum ?

Rich Euro M5 wrote:Does your alternator have rubber bushings in the mounting lugs, or are they solid aluminum ?

Although I just had it out, I don't recall.
Whats the difference, is the solid aluminum part of the ground...

grey ghost wrote:

Rich Euro M5 wrote:Does your alternator have rubber bushings in the mounting lugs, or are they solid aluminum ?

Although I just had it out, I don't recall.
Whats the difference, is the solid aluminum part of the ground...

Yup, some versions of Bosch alternators in BMWs have rubber isolation bushings integrated into the mounting lugs. These alternators require a separate ground strap from the alternator body to the engine block.

Rich Euro M5 wrote:

grey ghost wrote:

Rich Euro M5 wrote:Does your alternator have rubber bushings in the mounting lugs, or are they solid aluminum ?

Although I just had it out, I don't recall.
Whats the difference, is the solid aluminum part of the ground...

Yup, some versions of Bosch alternators in BMWs have rubber isolation bushings integrated into the mounting lugs. These alternators require a separate ground strap from the alternator body to the engine block.

I've been running the alternator for about 4 years now, so if that was indeed the issue, I'd know by now, I hope...
Was there ever a ground cable running from the left strut tower to some point on the engine block?

grey ghost wrote:

Rich Euro M5 wrote:

grey ghost wrote:

Rich Euro M5 wrote:Does your alternator have rubber bushings in the mounting lugs, or are they solid aluminum ?

Although I just had it out, I don't recall.
Whats the difference, is the solid aluminum part of the ground...

Yup, some versions of Bosch alternators in BMWs have rubber isolation bushings integrated into the mounting lugs. These alternators require a separate ground strap from the alternator body to the engine block.

I've been running the alternator for about 4 years now, so if that was indeed the issue, I'd know by now, I hope...
Was there ever a ground cable running from the left strut tower to some point on the engine block?

Just throwing the alternator info out there, just in case.

I not aware of a wire running from the left strut tower to the engine block. I've never seen it on the three E28s I've owned.

Rich Euro M5 wrote:

grey ghost wrote:

Rich Euro M5 wrote:

grey ghost wrote:

Rich Euro M5 wrote:Does your alternator have rubber bushings in the mounting lugs, or are they solid aluminum ?

Although I just had it out, I don't recall.
Whats the difference, is the solid aluminum part of the ground...

Yup, some versions of Bosch alternators in BMWs have rubber isolation bushings integrated into the mounting lugs. These alternators require a separate ground strap from the alternator body to the engine block.

I've been running the alternator for about 4 years now, so if that was indeed the issue, I'd know by now, I hope...
Was there ever a ground cable running from the left strut tower to some point on the engine block?

Just throwing the alternator info out there, just in case.

I not aware of a wire running from the left strut tower to the engine block. I've never seen it on the three E28s I've owned.

Thanks, I appreciate it a great deal.
This has me lost.
I don't want to start replacing things and throwing money at the car...... but is need to get this thing right...

It sounds like a ground issue, but I'm not sure...
I'm going to make a video so everyone can see it in action.

Here's a video.
Please excuse the bad language when the music comes on, Dr Dre.....
It was in the player........ sorry. sometimes I feel a little gangster..

But look at the numbers and tell me what you think...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RNo7epvSYQ

This one is from the first test drive.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfG7JT2C ... re=related

I added another ground in hopes that it was the issue.
With this new ground I had to retune the car for idle. The behavior of the wideband in responce to throttle is completely different.
Before when I tapped the throttle the gauge would move done to about the mid 12s then go straight back to were it was.
Now when I tap the throttle, it goes straight to 10, then to full lean and then back to the appropriate idle #s.

It took me a while to get the afm gear in the right place..
I'll have to see what happens once I drive it.

So I took it for a ride a few minutes ago and it seems ok. With every electrical load possible the #s remained in the corect range.
But, it did go full lean for a few and I pulled over and it slowy went back to the correct range. I guess that will take a little fine tuning.
The wideband behavior is very different now that I have added an addition ground.


I've posted a video of the wideband with its new attitude....
I'd like some input please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJxHtJ9xhG4