E28 Megasquirt FAQ

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Dec 04, 2009 7:28 AM

alijonny wrote:speaking of, look at this site I found, pretty neat. I think I may have a #27? or #5? It can make sense since I have issues with the exhaust manifolds getting red hot art idle.

http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/spark ... talog.html

Have you verified the timing at idle?

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Dec 04, 2009 12:03 PM

alijonny wrote:speaking of, look at this site I found, pretty neat. I think I may have a #27? or #5? It can make sense since I have issues with the exhaust manifolds getting red hot art idle.

http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/spark ... talog.html

The one explanation for glowing manifolds is too little ignition advance.

Post by **Brad D.** » Dec 04, 2009 1:18 PM

turbodan wrote:
alijonny wrote:speaking of, look at this site I found, pretty neat. I think I may have a #27? or #5? It can make sense since I have issues with the exhaust manifolds getting red hot art idle.

http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/spark ... talog.html
The one explanation for glowing manifolds is too little ignition advance.

Yup, the late combustion continues as the mixture leaves the exhaust valve and continues to burn in the manifold causing it to glow.

bornagain · Post by **bornagain** » Dec 06, 2009 3:27 PM

johnny what is your setting for trigger offset angle? Between the codes, as updated earlier in this manual the newer codes do away with offset angle and if you run brads settings this will happen. Not that brads are wrong they are just for the earlier code. Needless to say i had the excact same thing where i was turning my turbo and mani's red hot even at idle cause i had brads setting of 60 degrees offset trigger angle and the newer code says 0 degrees. After this was changed all was good and i found where all my power was.

bornagain · Post by **bornagain** » Dec 06, 2009 3:32 PM

So on the topic of spark plugs i am probably going to be putting in some bkre5e's for winter. The only way to make my car reliable right now and usable is to make it run rich, and with the cold temps the 6e's are starting to foul. Still have yet to do compression tests and a few other tests but i am going to try to look for a nice fresh 35 block and head to throw in for the spring. Maybe some dual springs in the head too. New clutch and possible new tranny.... does anyone know of a stronger gearset rebuild kit for the 260/6?

alijonny · Post by **alijonny** » Dec 07, 2009 1:50 AM

bornagain wrote:johnny what is your setting for trigger offset angle? Between the codes, as updated earlier in this manual the newer codes do away with offset angle and if you run brads settings this will happen. Not that brads are wrong they are just for the earlier code. Needless to say i had the excact same thing where i was turning my turbo and mani's red hot even at idle cause i had brads setting of 60 degrees offset trigger angle and the newer code says 0 degrees. After this was changed all was good and i found where all my power was.

hmm very interesting. I know what i'm going to do tomorrow!

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Dec 07, 2009 7:23 AM

If you have a non-zero value for trigger-angle in an MS2Extra release, you should set it to zero and reset tooth # 1 with a timing light. Note, although older codes will allowno-zero trigger-angles with toothed wheels, it's not recommended and is not supported in current beta and alpha releases.

alijonny · Post by **alijonny** » Dec 07, 2009 12:44 PM

HUGE difference. the car actually seems to drive like the 745. I still need to fine tune the actual offset at the crank wheel. is every tooth 2*? I remember reading that somewhere, but can't seem to find it now. oh and temps seem to be much lower. I got about 530*F at the turbine housing after a short drive and about 10 minutes idling. It might still be high, but I know I am on the right track.

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Dec 07, 2009 12:47 PM

alijonny wrote:HUGE difference. the car actually seems to drive like the 745. I still need to fine tune the actual offset at the crank wheel. is every tooth 2*? I remember reading that somewhere, but can't seem to find it now. oh and temps seem to be much lower. I got about 530*F at the turbine housing after a short drive and about 10 minutes idling. It might still be high, but I know I am on the right track.

Make sure you use a non-adjustable timing light. And set latency to 100usec. That seems to work for most systems.

alijonny · Post by **alijonny** » Dec 07, 2009 12:53 PM

I need to set the numbers to 0 on the timing board too right? there is a button to hit to set them all to 0 temporarily right? I am going to look for that now.

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Dec 07, 2009 1:26 PM

alijonny wrote:I need to set the numbers to 0 on the timing board too right? there is a button to hit to set them all to 0 temporarily right? I am going to look for that now.

No use fixed timing on More Ignition Settings

alijonny · Post by **alijonny** » Dec 07, 2009 2:40 PM

cool got it.

Post by **Brad D.** » Dec 07, 2009 3:21 PM

For clarification, I did make a not of the changes in the trigger offset setting on the first page of the FAQ as to not cause problems in the future.

alijonny · Post by **alijonny** » Dec 07, 2009 9:41 PM

my car is absolutely amazing. the first few times everything will work very well. i ran the car the first time with everything set right and it seemed very well behaved. it was all to shit from that point. Things seemed to get worse and temps started rising again. the car now seems to be running too rich and a 2k rpm idle and I haven't even changed anything!!! WTF?? I thought I had enough time away from this garbage.

bornagain · Post by **bornagain** » Dec 08, 2009 12:41 AM

each tooth is 6 degrees.... 60 tooth wheel divided in to 360* comes out to 6 degrees per tooth. so really if you break it down its 3 degrees for the gap and 3 degrees for the tooth and 15 degrees for the missing tooth section and to figure out your trigger settings for the degrees off the tooth one, you count how many teeth from the vr sensor the missing tooth is then minus one cause its actually asking for tooth one and then times by 6. All done at TDC.

For example when mine is at tdc i count 15 teeth including the one that is in line with the VR sensor and so i subtract one tooth cause i want tooth #1 which puts me at 14 teeth x 6* = 84* and i minused one degree for the fact that i was about 1/3 off center on my tooth and that seemed to work out for me.

now mine might be a bit different cause i used a b35 crank wheel on a b32 motor, but it shouldnt really be off from that, or my tdc mark is off on the flywheel. But what that comes down to, is, more of my trouble shooting i have to do with my own car.

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Dec 08, 2009 6:38 AM

alijonny wrote:my car is absolutely amazing. the first few times everything will work very well. i ran the car the first time with everything set right and it seemed very well behaved. it was all to shit from that point. Things seemed to get worse and temps started rising again. the car now seems to be running too rich and a 2k rpm idle and I haven't even changed anything!!! WTF?? I thought I had enough time away from this garbage.

You probably did some tuning at some point before it was warmed up.

Now you can tune it warm and the default warmup curves should be close for you.

It's idling higher because your timing is correct now.

alijonny · Post by **alijonny** » Dec 08, 2009 9:57 AM

thanks.

Post by **Brad D.** » Dec 08, 2009 2:13 PM

It sounds like you are getting close though!

bornagain · Post by **bornagain** » Dec 09, 2009 1:24 AM

you are starting to get it and it is quite the feeling as it is coming along, its almost like having a child really.... it can seem great and over whelming and you do all the preparation you can but when it finally comes to fruitition turns out you have a screaming shitting little basterd til you stand up to it and put it in its place.... " damn you baby you can sit there in your shit til you figure out how to change yourself..." And then through some parenting (tuning(son you better listen or ill tune you in)) it starts to behave and act better and learn, until eventually it becomes independent and you can leave the diaper bag at home( laptop).... yeah

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Dec 09, 2009 6:52 AM

BTW, if anyone is using my tune (via Scott), most likely your dwell is too high.

I normally use dwell times of 2 to 2.5 msec for E28/E30 but my e12 coil is different and requires longer dwell time. Just a heads up.

Post by **Brad D.** » Dec 09, 2009 10:43 AM

bornagain wrote:you are starting to get it and it is quite the feeling as it is coming along, its almost like having a child really.... it can seem great and over whelming and you do all the preparation you can but when it finally comes to fruitition turns out you have a screaming shitting little basterd til you stand up to it and put it in its place.... " damn you baby you can sit there in your shit til you figure out how to change yourself..." And then through some parenting (tuning(son you better listen or ill tune you in)) it starts to behave and act better and learn, until eventually it becomes independent and you can leave the diaper bag at home( laptop).... yeah

alijonny · Post by **alijonny** » Dec 09, 2009 12:13 PM

very good example.

that helps me a lot to think of it in that context. lol. my sister just had a baby so I'm seeing what she is going thru. I suppose you guys are like my mom to my sister, showing the way to do it right.

bornagain · Post by **bornagain** » Dec 09, 2009 9:41 PM

im not saying that i know all but i will share what i have to share. That is what i came to love about this community and that is why i still browse and contribute. The numerous times brad, even without a helping answer has just managed to keep me confident for the end goal. Many times with the right answers too. And peter like the wise noble man or better yoda, says little but gets the brain rolling.... "with brain you must think, only then, truly understand, you will. Signal clear must vr sensor be." And of course every now and then i have looked to dan and mike ass swell. Either way this is a big shout out to all that have helped me on my way.

And believe it or not all the people asking questions about their problems has helped me either take focus off my current issue or get my brain working analytically again.

Post by **Brad D.** » Dec 09, 2009 10:31 PM

Man, I love this place!

bornagain · Post by **bornagain** » Dec 10, 2009 12:51 AM

either way im pretty sure i have a dead cylinder or two but im not giving up?

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Dec 10, 2009 12:56 AM

bornagain wrote:either way im pretty sure i have a dead cylinder or two but im not giving up?

Compression and cylinder leakdown tests?

bornagain · Post by **bornagain** » Dec 10, 2009 1:08 AM

its been so busy at work it has been hard to find the time but im trying to get it done but if the car idles too long it developes a miss. Im pretty sure that when my injector banks screwed up i washed the walls pretty bad and probably wore out the brand new rings i had just finished seating, and that would explain the low vacuum and the "better" running while rich and constant fuel smell out the exhaust with shitty fuel milage and hard to start when cold. Also the poping out the exhaust and random pops on start. No matter how nuch tuning i do trying everything it never seems to run if its stoich and it only runs nice when super rich. But filling the tank every three days when only driving 30 miles a day is not cool in my books. Oh and for that fact i would like to know if the yankees here know the general conversion of km to miles cause if you do i will stop making my approximate conversions for you guys. haha

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Dec 10, 2009 1:18 AM

Have you verified your timing with megasquirt? All that sounds just like timing to me. I don't see how idling longer would affect your compression either.

bornagain · Post by **bornagain** » Dec 10, 2009 1:24 AM

well i believe its still building some compression but its probably low and after a while is starts to foul due to pooling evap. I HAD verified timing but i havent been able to re-verify as the light has magically gone out in my brand spanking new 200$ timing light. so i have to find the time to take that back too. Even if for some reason i find that it is the timing i am curious to see how the rings have seated and what my compression is. The other reason why i think its a low cylinder or 2 is i seem to continually foul 3 and 4.

Post by **Brad D.** » Jan 06, 2010 10:21 AM

Well, I updated the original post with screenshots from current Release Code 2.1.0, so there should be less confusion over changed settings. I also have a few more things that I will be adding to the original document over the next few days.

alijonny · Post by **alijonny** » Jan 06, 2010 11:30 AM

beautiful. now you are speaking my language!

Post by **Brad D.** » Jan 06, 2010 5:57 PM

I finally decided to get out of the dark ages of ancient beta code and try out Tuner Studio. Now I wish I hadn't waited so long. Oh well.

bornagain · Post by **bornagain** » Jan 07, 2010 1:07 AM

brad you did change your trigger offset when you upgraded, right? hahah

Brad why is your dwell set so low?
I know you said you phoned about your coil packs but 3 for cranking and 2.1 for maximum seems low when mwextra says 6 cranking and 3.5 max running.

Also did you do a read over of the body? i noticed one point it refers to the "newer 2.0 code" did you mean 3.0.x code?

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Jan 09, 2010 12:57 AM

2.1.0 is the code Brad is running, because its the newest I guess you could say "backed" release. I gave him some pointers on what changed, and he got up to speed, and his car is running great on 2.1.0.

bornagain · Post by **bornagain** » Jan 09, 2010 1:01 AM

ahh yes i was just refering to the fact that they had the 2.0.1 code then the 2.1.0 code and the 2.1.1 beta that im running and really like. It felt smoother just changing over and starting it with no tune changes. On the other hand i have no idea about the 3.0.x codes and i really stray from anything that has the word alpha associated with it.

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Jan 09, 2010 1:06 AM

After having talked to Peter, I plan to make the jump from 2.1.1B to 3.0.3Q once I get a wideband back (mind failed and had to be returned. It has new map sampling, and has a map lag factor which helps throttle and such.

bornagain · Post by **bornagain** » Jan 09, 2010 1:20 AM

im pretty sure that the 2.1.1b code had that all "upgraded" in it ass swell. I noticed a way smoother idle and correction rate in mine when i switched to the 2.1.1b

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Jan 09, 2010 1:31 AM

bornagain wrote:im pretty sure that the 2.1.1b code had that all "upgraded" in it ass swell. I noticed a way smoother idle and correction rate in mine when i switched to the 2.1.1b

Ya 2.1.1B did improve idle and other things, however the 3.0.3 actually does improve on 2.1.1b quite a bit itself. It once again improves idle, but the biggest thing is that map lag factor, and calulation thing. I know going from 2.1.1b to 3.0.3q you have to retune the fuel ve, it's like the first version change i've seen where you actually have to retune, but the 3.0.0 series is the future, 2.0.0 series is done. So i'm making the leap, since I have to retune with my wideband anyway.

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Jan 09, 2010 10:42 AM

Scott, I thought you were running 211a not b.

I noticed no difference from 211b to 303n

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Jan 09, 2010 10:44 AM

bornagain wrote:im pretty sure that the 2.1.1b code had that all "upgraded" in it ass swell. I noticed a way smoother idle and correction rate in mine when i switched to the 2.1.1b

Did you set map lag factor to 100?

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E28 Megasquirt FAQ