Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is

[tig]

The only diagnostics I have not yet done are swap out the ECU...

I would highly recommend you giving that a shot before investing more time or money elsewhere.

Thanks to Bimmerguy2002 I have a spare 059 ECU (Great seller, BTW!)



I swapped it in and went for a little test drive. With the stock chip I noticed the car is lightly 'duller', but it had no impact on the surging Idle.

My Conforti-chipped ECU is back in place.

I think I'm going to start over with the idle diagnostics in Bentley and run all the tests again. Because I'm out of ideas.

[dsmith]

I just looked at your idle video. Why did your mpg gauge swing to the left when the RPM dipped? If you weren't touching any controls when that happened, that could be something to research.

[tig]

I just looked at your idle video. Why did your mpg gauge swing to the left when the RPM dipped? If you weren't touching any controls when that happened, that could be something to research.

I was not touching any controls. That's what happens when it 'stalls' at idle; it does this once every 5 or so minutes. There's been a few times when I swear it stalled while driving too, but it's so sudden that it's hard to notice.

For those just catching up, here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hTHlN1gaus

[dsmith]

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=11 ... =mpg+gauge

[tig]

www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=113681&hi ... =mpg+gauge

Ok, tomorrow I will check my brand new (replaced right after I bought the car in march) plug wires. Thanks.

[wkohler]

I'd put the old ones back on. If you went with anything other than Beru or Bremi, they're suspect.

[tig]

I'd put the old ones back on. If you went with anything other than Beru or Bremi, they're suspect.

I don't have the old ones. They were pretty beat up so I (stupidly?) tossed them.

The new ones are Bosch. I'm going to pull the disti cord off and measure it's resistance...

[EDIT: Duh - the B34 donor we bought for the B35 project had Beru wires on it. They look to be in pretty good shape! Maybe I'll put them on?]

While I have your attention, on the B34 intake manifold there are three nipples on the bottom side. What is this one for?

The hose that comes off of it on Vlad is a thin, brownish plastic deal.



In the meantime, yes this is 27 year old paint.



It's too bad there are no car shows around here today

[tig]

Here are some more videos of the surging/stalling issue I took this morning.

In this first video you can see the rough/surging idle and two examples (within less than 60 seconds) of 'stalls'. The engine does not completely stop, but the MPG gauge resets. Every once in a while the engine will completely stall.

http://youtu.be/09-8BcIekR0

In the second video I did another test to see if the surging occurred under throttle. And sure enough you can see when I hold steady at 2000 rpm there is a slight pulsating of RPM. I do not know whether this is a typical B34 thing or not. I also did it at 3500 RPM and it was pulsing/surging there too.

http://youtu.be/kjvReEjUWsc

[wkohler]

Bosch wires, caps and rotors have been problematic.

I'd look at swapping AFMs to see if that helps your issue.

[tig]

Bosch coil wire: 2015 ohms


BMW OEM coil wire: 1924 ohms


I also tested the Beru wires from my donor B34 motor. They were all about 5000 ohms.

Shouldn't they be 0 ohms? Bentley says "0 ohms (approx.)".

For grins I put the OEM coil wire on the car. It did not change anything.

Sincerely,

confused in Bellevue.

[tig]

Based on Chris' suggestion, I tried the AFM that I bought for the M30B35 project. As soon as I put it in the engine would barely run, either stalling immediately or going whacko with applied throttle.

I pulled it back out and followed the instructions hereon how to refubish an AFM.

I cleaned all the contacts (DeoxIT), ensured the wiper had virgin track area, and re-assembled.



Once installed it had the same surging idle and stall problem. I decided to bolt it into place and after doing so everything went haywire again. I think there's something wrong with this AFM so I'm going to actually test it... but for now I put my original back in (and the problem is still here).

I also tried the TPS from the B34 donor motor and it did not fix the issue (I had already tested the TPS, but I figured it couldn't hurt to try).

Sigh.

[tig]

Oh, the drama.

After dinking around some more the car would barely run. This was with all my original gear: TPS, AFM, plug wires...

My son & I started diagnosing again and I found that it was fine if the air cleaner was NOT attached to the AFM. If the AFM was in the car by itself (propped on a small piece of 2x4) it would run just fine. But as soon as I installed the air cleaner assembly it would start puking.

Hmmm.... So with the car running, I pulled up vertically on the AFM. Stall. Burp. Blarg.

Hmmm.... I got it so I could reproduce it completely.

So I got the other AFM out again and put it in.

Now, no matter what I do the car runs perfectly (Except it is still surging at idle...the original problem).

So I guess that old AFM *was* shot or was nearly shot.

It's been idling for 10 minutes and it has not stalled. So maybe the stall & rough idle were independent (the rough idle would cause the AFM to freak out).

At least now I know I can drive it to work tomorrow... I was in a bit of a panic for a bit.

[tig]

Drove into work this morning. Upon cold start there was tons of surging at idle, far more than I've ever seen before, but I was so freaked out by it I helped with the throttle and am not completely sure how much was in my head vs. reality.

That said, I had a 'check' light for coolant on, so I left it idling while I got some water to add to the coolant (I swapped out the temp sensor and I guess a little coolant got out). It seemed to be idling nicely the whole time.

I drove into Seattle and whenever i had to stop at a light I noticed the idle was definitely smoother than before. Not even an hit of a stall. I took a little video in my parking garage to share with you all (who am I kidding, nobody's reading this thread or watching my videos; this is just me playing with myself).

http://youtu.be/MsuE-IVpfDw

As you can see there is still some surging but the amplitude is less. The average RPM seems to be lower too.

Can someone with more experience comment on how the best B34's idle compared to this?

[kzolee]

When did You checked last time your valve clearances?

[tig]

When did You checked last time your valve clearances?

I have not, personally, but they were last checked at 167,721 miles (the car now has 174,187). I was thinking I could go to 182k before bothering (15k miles).

[cddallara]

I seem to have developed a serious condition. Anyone know if there is a scientific/medical term for it?



I have my eyes on a set of Alpinas as well. And I lust for Hartge too.

You seem to be developing a bad case of wheelfortitis, sometimes referred to as kholeritis.

There is no cure, just go with it. The stronger you try to fight it, the worse (better? ) it gets...

[tig]

Updated car details:

• 1987 BMW 535is - Built September 9, 1986
• WBADC7401H0964420
• Zinnoberrot (Cinnabar) on black
• Delivered to first owner in Orange, CA February 27, 1988
• Sold to 2nd owner in Santa Barbara, CA October 6, 2000 @ 87,525 miles
• Sold to 3rd owner (me) in Bellevue, WA April 5, 2013 @ 171,000 miles
• Now just shy of 175,000 miles.

Updates/Tweaks:

• Conforti chip
• 740iL calipers (painted red), ATE power rotors, 740iL master cylinder, Akebono ceramic pads, stainless hoses
• 3.23 limited slip differential (from a 2003 M Coupe)
• Style 8 wheels (16x7.5" ET15) from an 840ci - 225/50-R16 RE760 tires
• BBS RX223 (16x8" ET15) wheels - Continental Extreme Contact DW 225/50-R16 tires
• BBS RS Staggered 005s and 006s (16x7 ET11 /16x8 ET24). Not mounted yet.
• Rolled rear fenders
• Cibie headlights, H4 80/100w, H1 100w, with upgraded wiring, relays and fuses
• Motorsport Series strut brace
• H&R Springs
• Bilstein Sport shocks
• K-MAC Stage 1 street front adjustable camber kit
• K-MAC Rear camber & toe kit
• Powerflex rear subframe bushings
• Custom installed 2-port USB power plugs
• Custom hard-wired Valentine 1 radar detector install
• Pioneer CD/MP3/Bluetooth head unit, big ass amplifier, and subwoofer (PO)
• ///M shift knob
• Shadowline conversion (in progress)
• Bavarian Auto ceramic coated headers
• Ireland Engineering exhaust

In progress or planned upgrades:

• Shadowline kit (faux vinyl tape based kit installed, real kit acquired, just not installed)
• M30B35 motor from an '88 735i (acquired, currently rebuilding for funzies).
• Pelican Parts clutch kit (incl. Sachs clutch; acquired; will go in with M30B35)
• Lightweight flywheel (acquired)
• E34 Sport seats; will recover with black & red leather ([bold]WTB Badly[/bold])
• Upgrade of dash, center console, etc... with red & black leather.
• Euro bumper conversion (WTB)

Current gremlins & annoyances:

• Surging/rough idle/stall at idle. FIXED w/ new AFM.
• Hesitation/stall right after cold start. Minor but annoying.
• Voltage drop to accessories on brake light (and headlight) activation; causes radar detector to reboot
• Driver's seat rocks badly
• As predicted by certain know-it-alls on this forum the hot glue holding my über cool USB adapter didn't hold

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

Ya know, once I removed the evaporative emission system, my car ran so much better
also the air bypass screw in the AFM has an o-ring in it; I have come across a broken one before and causes all sorts of headaches.
Maybe a really loose dipstick?
Just some things that come to mind.

Also, ALL of the grounds are clean? Regulator in the alt. good?

Car is gawgess

[tig]

Ya know, once I removed the evaporative emission system, my car ran so much better
also the air bypass screw in the AFM has an o-ring in it; I have come across a broken one before and causes all sorts of headaches.

Will check that. Thanks.

Maybe a really loose dipstick?

I am not a dipstick, you jerk. (I checked that already).

Just some things that come to mind.

Also, ALL of the grounds are clean?

Triple checked.

Regulator in the alt. good?

Replaced. Happens even when the engine is not running.

Car is gawgess

I think so too! Thanks.

[LarryM]

I haven't the time to read through this entire thread, but have you checked to see what kind of plugs are in the engine? I just bought an '87 535is and discovered someone had installed Bosch platinum-tip plugs; I replaced them with Silvers (along with a new O2 sensor) and the idle smoothed out considerably.

Oh, BTW: Of the wheels you've accumulated the BBS RS are, IMO, the keepers. My car's PO wisely purchased brand-new E28 M5 wheels (also a good choice); RS's are the ONLY wheels I'd consider replacing them with.

[austinmdpedi]

I am not a mechanic but had a similar stalling issue with my '88 E24 M6. Ended up being a vacuum problem. Cured with resurfacing of valves / seats. Took forever to figure out after replacing MAF sensor, Idle Control Valve, and several hundred dollars of other stuff.

Not sure if this is your issue but might be worth checking out.

[tig]

I am obviously very, very sick.

The very nice FedEx man dropped these off today.

[Drew in NYC]

I am obviously very, very sick.

The very nice FedEx man dropped these off today.

Nice going. Now I think you can finally sell those Style 8s that had come on the car (unless you already have).

[tig]

I am obviously very, very sick.

The very nice FedEx man dropped these off today.

Nice going. Now I think you can finally sell those Style 8s that had come on the car (unless you already have).

Yes, I am.

Haven't had time to list them though. Not quite sure what people are willing to pay. They seem pretty rare. Feel free to make me an offer... What's the worst that can happen?

[tig]

Working on the ground-fault problem.

This is where I see a voltage-drop on (all/most?) ignition-switched circuits when certain other circuits (brake pedal, headlights) are on. The voltage drops from ~13V to about ~11V.

Showing voltage drop:



Normally this would just be annoying in that it just causes the LCD in the OBC to dim. The PO spent a huge amount of time trying to diagnose and fix. He thought it was the brake light circuit and ended up installing additional relays for the brake lights...which didn't fix the problem. I've since ripped all his crap out. He checked all the ground points, etc... too.

But for me it is more than annoying because it causes my Valentine 1 Radar Detector to reboot every time I hit the brakes.

Someone suggested it may be the power the stereo. I have disconnected the stereo; no joy.

While I'm diagnosing I'm cleaning up PO messes. One is the following. This is coming out of the left side of the center console, just to the right of the OBC. This connector is not hooked up to anything and does not look OEM.



From left to right in this picture:

- Purple/white is 12V ignition-switched (shows V drop)
- Brown - ground
- Brown/white - ground
- Red/white 12V always-on (never shows V drop).

Anyone know what this circuit was intended for. I tried finding it in the ETM, but haven't been able to.

Note, coming in on the RIGHT side of the center console, near the glove box is the following rat's nest. All of these correspond to what I see in the ETM:

[tig]

After cleaning up all the stereo power wiring and verifying that with nothing connected the voltage drop still occurs I put the center console back together.

I did change my Valentine 1 to be wired to the other set of wires (the ones in the pic above) instead of the same ones powering the head unit.

Still have the voltage drop. Blah.

I was really hoping this would be it.

[cddallara]

I'm viewing on a phone, but that connector looks like the same type for an analog dash clock (or e30 power mirror).

[tig]

While I'm diagnosing I'm cleaning up PO messes. One is the following. This is coming out of the left side of the center console, just to the right of the OBC. This connector is not hooked up to anything and does not look OEM.



From left to right in this picture:

- Purple/white is 12V ignition-switched (shows V drop)
- Brown - ground
- Brown/white - ground
- Red/white 12V always-on (never shows V drop).

From the ETM and the Digital Clock I just happened to have bought I have figured out that this is what this connector is for. Not sure that the brown/white is actually ground. I suspect it may go to the active check system as that is a typical brown/white wire...

Note the ETM barely mentions the digital clock. This connector is not in any of the diagrams.

Another thread (once I knew this was for the digital clock Search helped) points out:

purple/white - hot in accy, run, or start - fuse #12 - 8 amp
red/white - hot at all times from fuse #5 - 8 amp
brown - ground
brown/ white ?? - this one is the key.

Good to know.

[tig]

Something else I learned today:

There is actually an ETM for the '87/88 535i & M5. Previously I had only found an ETM for 87/88 528 and assumed that was as good as it got. Just goes to re-enforce what assume means.

Here: http://wedophones.com/BMWManualsLead.htm

Now let's see if it makes the job easier.

[tig]

Holy sh** I think these look great.

Definitely keepers.











Just a quick 2 min evening drive before wifey called for dinner so no commentary on whether I agree with wkohler on staggered vs. square yet.