Noob M30B35 Build

[tig]

We all have to do this at least once.

Haha. I pulled it apart just before you posted that...I see what you mean. Why do I continue to be surprised with how simple this stuff can be.

Still don't know where the blockage is....

[Kyle in NO]

Is the clutch pedal all the way up while you are doing this? If not...

[wkohler]

Is the clutch pedal all the way up while you are doing this? If not...

There's my follow-up question.

[tig]

I think the first time I tried it, I must have had the pedal depressed. The slave was in the transmission.

Then, after I had to pull the tranny off to fix the water leak, I decided to use the time to bleed the clutch. I had the pedal out, but.... the slave wasn't in the transmission. Nothing was holding the piston back. So the piston pushed out into the boot and from there it was all down hill.

After pulling both slaves apart I've decided the one that was in the car is perfectly fine. It's a higher quality housing, the weather seal is in great shape, and the piston is tight.

I installed it in the transmission (oh, yea, I've got the transmission & headers back on after getting a new gasket today for the gooseneck... and, yes, I used #3 permatex and anti-seize). WIth it in the transmission and the pedal out I made progress! My son has abandoned me for the night so I don't have him to watch the overflow, so I just did it part way. But now the clutch actually works!

Now I know.

New gasket with #3.


I also got torq bolts to replace the allen head bolts the PO had installed.


I re-filled coolant/water and bled the cooling system. Then we removed the spark plugs and used the starter to turn the motor a bunch.

No leaks. Yay.

I have an issue with my UUC shifter kit. It has a defective part. I was going to just live with it, but this delay caused me to call them. A replacement part will be here tomorrow. This means I can't put the drive shaft in tonight.

I won't be able to wrench tomorrow, until late at night, if at all, so first start wont' happen until thursday night at the earliest now.

I'm going to button a few more things up tonight...

[wkohler]

I'm SHOCKED! SHOCKED! A UUC kit with a defective part. Unheard of.

[tig]

Updated To-Do List:

1. Mount the B35 coil (DONE).
2. Put new coolant overflow tank in and connect (DONE).
3. Tighten belts (DONE).
4. Attach fuel hose from tank to rail (DONE).
5. Connect new grounds for wiring harness on RHS (DONE).
6. Put new wiper tank in and connect (DONE).
7. B35 bellhousing has hole w/ plastic cap. Plastic cap wants to fall out. Buy cap at Ace hardware that fits! (DONE)
8. Install short-shift kit. (DONE)
9. Install lightened & balanced flywheel and new clutch. (DONE)
10. Have beer. Watch Sounders game. (DONE)
11. Put radiator back in. (DONE)
12. Final attach AFR (waiting for the UPS man for some brass fittings). (DONE)
13. Splice in new O2 sensor using connector bimmerguy got me (DONE)
14. Re-do (+) battery connections. Charge battery. (DONE)
15. Shift knob, etc... (DONE)
16. Fill coolant. (DONE)
17. Fill break-in oil; manually turn crank? (DONE)
18. Install plugs. (DONE)
19. Put air filter housing in. (DONE)
20. Put in 179 ECU and plug it in. (DONE)
21. Fill brake fluid; bleed. (DONE, sort-of)
22. Fill PS fluid. (DONE)
23. Finish removing transmission. (DONE)
24. Figure out why gooseneck is leaking. (DONE)
25. Install new gasket (Ordered, will be her tomorrow) (DONE)
26. Attach transmission. AGAIN. (DONE)
27. Attach headers. AGAIN. (DONE)
28. Reattach steering support bar, etc... AGAIN. (DONE)
29. Install powder coated strut brace (DONE).
30. Tighten steering column nut (DONE)
31. Straighten steering wheel (DONE)
32. UUC is sending me a replacement part for the short-shift kit; what they sent me would work, but it was clearly defective. Should be here tomorrow.
33. Install rebuilt driveshaft, new guibo.
34. Reinstall exhaust. (once the car is drivable I'm taking it into a shop and having the exhaust rebuilt)
35. Final bleed clutch
36. Put fuel in tank.
37. Test fuel pump.
38. Cross fingers and start it up. 20 minutes, then re-torque head bolts.
39. Have beer.

[wkohler]

It *looks* good. Hope things progress without further issues. Hope you're learning a lot, too!

[tig]

It *looks* good. Hope things progress without further issues. Hope you're learning a lot, too!

I think it looks good too. Will look better when I have time to invest in putting in the E34 air filter housing.

Fingers are crossed that there are no more issues. But there are so many things I could have done wrong with the wiring... I tested the heck out of everything; double and triple checked. But so many things...

I am learning a lot. Tons. Sometimes only once, too.

It's amazing how much easier it was putting that transmission in the 2nd time

[wkohler]

I guess put me in the minority on the B35 airboxes. I think they really look out of place in the E28.

[tig]

I guess put me in the minority on the B35 airboxes. I think they really look out of place in the E28.

So do E34 Sport Seats, right?

[wkohler]

Yes. May as well go all the way then.

[tig]

I'm going to be selling the B34 I pulled out of Vlad. It's a great engine, but I have no idea what I should ask for it. Here's what I know.

• Came out of a 1987 535is 5-speed with 177K miles, for no good reason.
• Recent dyno results at 176K miles on 4/11/14: 172.72 rwhp / 188.01 rwtrq @ 5500 rpm.
• PPI at 170K miles showed compression of 175, 150, 175, 175, 175, 175
• Burns 1qt of oil every 1500-2000 miles.
• Plugs, cap, rotor, plug wires all replaced (Bosch) at 172k.
• Blackstone Oil Analysis done at 177k. "Lead was a little high in this sample, but everything else looks great. Universal averages show
  typical wear for the 3.4L BMW M30 engine after ~4,300 miles on the oil. Your run was a bit longer, and most
  metals fell in line accordingly. We expect iron to track directly with time on the oil, and the other metals
  should stay pretty close to average even if you run longer on the oil next time. No contamination was found
  in the sample, and the oil was physically in good shape, so we don't see any reason why you can't go longer
  on the next oil. Try 7,000 miles and check back."
• PO (87k miles - 172k miles) was more anal retentive than even I. Fed nothing but top grade oil. I use Brad Penn.
• Pulled from car with care. Nothing cut.
• Includes PS pump, 90A alternator (new regulator), B34 wiring harness, injectors, plugs, and 059 ECU.
• Does NOT include fan, AC compressor, AFM, intake boot, or air cleaner assembly.
• PO had oil pump, tension rail, timing chain, oil pump chain, tension piston, chain tensioner, sprocket cams all replaced at 112k due to "Oil pressure problem"
• PO had oil pump tensioner replaced again at 167K miles.
• Needs: Starter (solenoid fails to engage 25% of time).
• Wants: Rear main seal might be leaking (oil pressure sender definitely was, but that was fixed...no leaks after, but that was for only about 200 miles).
• Wants: Head gasket WAS leaking at intersection of head & timing covers. This was fixed with some externally applied FPIG gasket maker and a tightening of the timing cover bolts. No leaks in 2000+ miles.

I'd appreciate any pointers to comparable sales. Or real offers.

[tig]

While putting the transmission in my son & I noticed that the lower hole for the starter bulge had no bolt. I scratched my head on this. I am 100% certain that I did not lose any of these bolts. When I put it on the first time, I just didn't notice that hole (it's hard to see looking down the transmission tunnel) and since I had no extra bolts it never occurred to me to look harder. But the 2nd time around, with my son present, I noticed.

I think that when the PO's mechanic had the transmission off (at 91k miles) "Clutch kit - surface flywheel, helicoil" at "Hei-mac Motors, Goleta, CA" they not only put on the stupid allen bolts for the top two bolts, but DIDN'T put this one bolt in.

Might have been good enough for this car for the last 85k miles, but not good enough for me. Glad BMW of Bellevue had one (literally, they had only one) in stock.

[tn535i]

I guess put me in the minority on the B35 airboxes. I think they really look out of place in the E28.

Add me. I'm thinking the stock airbox looks in keeping with the engine. Less new car plastic molded refrigerator parts looking and more of that lightweight aluminum (almost air craft style) hardware appeals to me. I hate the look of some new cars with a big plastic cover over almost everything like Acura does for example.

Build looks almost like it came from the factory.

You know you will also need to swap to green coolant instead of blue to keep that factory look going. I would use the orange Rain-X washer fluid though so it's adds some more colors.

[tig]

Gonna start her up in maybe an hour. Putting exhaust on now!

I have a startup/break-in proceedure from my machinist. I'd like to get a few more perspectives from others who've done it. Can those of you with experience building new BMW engines chime in with how you break them in?

[tig]

F**k yea!!!

It started the first time!

Running at 2k RPM for 30 minutes now.

Sounds SMOOTH!

F**k yea!!!!

[Mark 88/M5 Houston]

Very satisfying when a new motor fires off properly, Congrats!

[tig]

Mostly all good news.

After the first start we noticed it was surging at idle. At first I thought it was the intake boot not being on all the way. After it was warm it was better, but I'm wondering if the coolant temp switch is wired backwards (see above :0)).

We ran it for 30 minutes at 2k RPM as my machinist said we should. Then pulled the valve cover gasket to adjust the valves and final tighten the head bolts.



Looking over all the cam lobes and rockers and everything looks nice and lined up. It's clear that oil is circulating nicely.

We drained the break-in oil and re-filled it with Brad Penn.

Then I noticed that I had pulled the #6 plug wire apart when I pulled the plugs out to take the valve cover gasket off (the headers were still hot and I didn't want the plastic cover falling down there so I pulled the plugs). Ooops. Bad move.

Fortunately the ends of theses plugs just press into the ends (which seems really odd, but ok), so the fix was easy. But it was a nervous bit because #6 has the induction coil that feeds the timing reference sensor.

After it was all back together it started fine but now seems to be running richer and really wants to stall anytime it's below about 1000 rpm.

We went for a 30 minute drive, keeping RPM below 3500, I had to keep my foot on the throttle to keep it from stalling at stop signs and stuff. Not sure what's going on as I've never had this symptom before.

It pulls very strong; the butt dyno is very, very happy. Smooth power all the way to 3500 rpm. Sounds great.

I'm off to search for rough idle and stalling threads (again). Any tips would be appreciated as I really want to drive it to work tomorrow!!!!

[tig]

Just went for another 10 mile drive. Lovely. Just lovely. I love my new shifter too! And the lightweight clutch. Wow. Zippy.

Won't (always) start without throttle; idle stall.

What I've tried.

• Changed AFMs to the one that used to be on Vlad's B34. No change.
• Swapped in another ICV. No change.
• Swapped in another ECU. No change.
• Swapped wires on coolant temp sensor. No change. (brand new CTS).
• Checked TPS.
• Vacuum lines are connected.

After it stalls the fuel pump relay buzzes and I can hear the fuel pump loudly. I don't recall this before. Could a stalling issue at idle be caused by fuel pump issues?

Here's the "first start video": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oImgDeopk78

[tn535i]

Little unclear but I think you are saying it won't run under about 1000 even with some slight throttle input? This makes it sound like a mixture problem and not the idle control system. Best guesses are unmetered air either vacuum leaks or the AFM bypass screw way to far off, possible the AFM spring adjustment also but you've tried switching that already.

Try monitoring the O2 sensor voltage as you let the revs fall and see if it pegs one way, either high or low voltage without dithering could indicate an extreme mixture problem. Generally I think it will sputter and cough if too rich and just falls flat like ignition switched off if too lean. A big old vacuum leak will drive it too lean and it will not run.

Have you got a vacuum gauge you can stick on the manifold and see what you've got there also. That would give a clue since it should run maybe 14-20 range as you approach closed throttle and idle. If it's low it points to vac leak.

Your description of the fuel relay buzzing is also very odd. It should be either on or off. On if the rpm over 20 and off below. I suppose if the relay realy is buzzing on/off/on it could lead to fuel starvation. You might just jump the pumps and see if that makes it run then figure out what up with the fuel relay. Oh and if you are jumping the relay use your DMM and measure the current to the pumps to make sure thay are pulling proper power. Something like 6 amps IIRC.

[tig]

Little unclear but I think you are saying it won't run under about 1000 even with some slight throttle input?

Yes, and (often) won't start without throttle.

This morning it started right up though but the idle was just on the edge of stalling. "Lopey". I drove to get coffee and as soon as I pulled into the drive through it tried to stall when I went to idle.

Try monitoring the O2 sensor voltage as you let the revs fall and see if it pegs one way, either high or low voltage without dithering could indicate an extreme mixture problem.

I have a wideband. It does not appear to be overly rich or lean (13-15 range). Unlike on the b34, where i was using a single O2 sensor (the ECU was slaved off the wideband gauge) I now have 2 O2 sensors. One dedicated to the wideband and one for the ECU. FWIW.

When the revs fall there is a spike of lean.

This makes it sound like a mixture problem and not the idle control system. Best guesses are unmetered air either vacuum leaks or the AFM bypass screw way to far off, possible the AFM spring adjustment also but you've tried switching that already.

Good call. I will dig into this. The two AFMs behave slightly differently; I can't recall precisely how since it was 1am when I was doing it last night. But my spidey sense is tingling on this. I did baseline one of the two AFMs, I think the 1st one I tried. The one in there now was on the B34.

Generally I think it will sputter and cough if too rich and just falls flat like ignition switched off if too lean. A big old vacuum leak will drive it too lean and it will not run.

It's not lean, except sometimes when I come off throttle. Almost always rich and when it dies it sputters/coughs/feels-lopey.

Have you got a vacuum gauge you can stick on the manifold and see what you've got there also. That would give a clue since it should run maybe 14-20 range as you approach closed throttle and idle. If it's low it points to vac leak.

No; probably should invest in one. Any suggestions?

Your description of the fuel relay buzzing is also very odd. It should be either on or off. On if the rpm over 20 and off below. I suppose if the relay realy is buzzing on/off/on it could lead to fuel starvation. You might just jump the pumps and see if that makes it run then figure out what up with the fuel relay. Oh and if you are jumping the relay use your DMM and measure the current to the pumps to make sure thay are pulling proper power. Something like 6 amps IIRC.

See video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUfrV05aPXg

Bentley's says in-tank is 1.4 and main is 5.0, so 6 is about right. I get 4.

I swapped the o2 sensor heater relay and fuel relay. Buzzing stopped. Will toss that relay.

Of course when I go to video it, it fails to stall. But here's a video that shows the "lopey" idle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW0HlA5KyDE

In the video you can see unplugging ICV has no impact on idle.

Unplugging CTS caused quick idle jump, so it's functioning.

Video shows wideband with some throttle blips.

FWIW, now that I've mucked with it, I haven't gotten it to stall, but it sitll is idling 'lopey'. I wonder if that's the paul burke cam in action?

[tig]

Just went for another drive.

It is running much better. Not sure why (other than swapping out the fuel pump relay).

However it still has a dip in RPM *almost* to the point of stall SOMETIMES when I let off the throttle.

Of course as soon as I tried to video it doing this it stopped doing it. Here's a video showing mixture at various throttle inputs. Note how when I let off the throttle the RPM stop abruptly at ~800 RPM as expected. When it goofs up they continue down to 200-300rpm and then the ECU compensates and they spike back up to 1500 or so. But, as I said, once the camera is running it refuses to reproduce.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiFVz68twiA

Note the B34 was doing this same thing when I had the Miller MAF installed.

[athayer187]

What fuel pressure are you running? I've noticed if I run too high (M30 B34, M1.3, 179 ECU with EAT chip, headers, otherwise stock) that the ECU can compensate and doesn't affect mixture as measured at the O2 sensor, but freaks out a bit during transitions to idle causing a dip. ~48-50 psi is the sweet spot for my motor.

[mitch5]

Have you tried unplugging the battery for a couple minutes yet to reset the ecu. I was have weird idling issues and stalls just like you were. I started to get balls deep into diagnostic when I remembered I might as well try the simplest thing first.

[Ron535i]

I have no idea if this will help or not, but I'll offer it up...

I have an 88 535i 5spd with the original B34 that I converted to M1.3 from an e32. I really like how this conversion helped with smoothing the idle and the drivability of the car. However, the one thing that it does that it did not do before is that when driving and coming to a stop, the Idle will very briefly dip to a point that you think it’s going to die, but then it quickly blips back up and then steadies at a solid 750 RPM. I have switched out several 179 ECU’s and they all do the same. I have talked to a couple of people who have done this conversion and theirs do the same. I figured it’s just a characteristic of running the M1.3.

Also, the M1.3/179 ECU is supposed to be adaptive, so your ECU may still be learning your motor.

[Ron535i]

What fuel pressure are you running? I've noticed if I run too high (M30 B34, M1.3, 179 ECU with EAT chip, headers, otherwise stock) that the ECU can compensate and doesn't affect mixture as measured at the O2 sensor, but freaks out a bit during transitions to idle causing a dip. ~48-50 psi is the sweet spot for my motor.

I just saw this... Having your fuel pressure set at that PSI eliminate the dip in idle during transition..?

*I'm not trying to thread hijack; I'm just trying to gain info and figured the OP could use the info also*

[demetk]

the Idle will very briefly dip to a point that you think it’s going to die, but then it quickly blips back up and then steadies at a solid 750 RPM.

I figured it’s just a characteristic of running the M1.3.

I don't have that idle dipping problem with any of my three b35's. Two of mine were converted to the manual TPS and the third is running the auto TPS with a 5-speed.

[pldlnr]

Drive the car for some more. The ECU needs to learn. I have experienced this with M1.3 in the past. When everything gets re-set, it doesn't run very well at first. It should keep getting better. But, I would at least give it time to learn before jumping into diagnosis/part swapping mode.

[wkohler]

That's racist.

[Ron535i]

I don't have that idle dipping problem with any of my three b35's. Two of mine were converted to the manual TPS and the third is running the auto TPS with a 5-speed.

Interesting... For clarification sake, are you running M1.3 on B35's or B34's..? Also, are your TPS' from a B34/M1.0 or B35/M1.3..? (I am using the TPS that was in the e32 that the rest of my conversion parts came from)

And as far as the "idle dipping problem"... I really don't consider it a problem because it is very slight when it happens. Maybe I'm more used to it now than when I first did the conversion, but I'm all ears if there's something I can do to prevent it...