nope. Bolt and washers are awol.Mark 88/M5 Houston wrote:With that oil spray bar bolt missing you will want to inspect the cam and rockers very carefully for wear. Did you find the bolt and its sealing washers during the disassembly?
Noob M30B35 Build
To try to minimize rusting, knowing the injectors had been removed, I sprayed quite a bit of Gibbs in through the top of the head, intake, exhaust, and injector ports before dis-assembly. Given the motor was turned over manually it's entirely likely that some of that got pulled in.Mike W. wrote:Those combustion chambers look awfully oily from here, they should be powder dry, especially the exhaust valves. That more than the scoring would make me concerned.
That said, I'd like to understand your concern more specifically. What do oily combustion chambers indicate?
Note that the plan all along was to have the head totally rebuilt by a pro. I want it tits perfect. So my quest for knowledge is just that.
Drag the edge of your fingernail across the vertical scoring on the cylinder walls. If it catches your fingernail, its a problem. It appears to be just cosmetic, and if you can't feel it with your fingernail its not a major problem. The rust on the cylinder wall is not good, but it may not actually be a serious issue. My last freebie M20 that I threw a turbo on had a similar issue in cylinder #1. The cylinder wall and rings had rusted somewhat but they cleaned themselves up just fine. Engine didn't even use oil.
There is a huge difference between optimal and serviceable. This bottom end appears to be somewhere on the serviceable end of the range, but thats good enough.
There is a huge difference between optimal and serviceable. This bottom end appears to be somewhere on the serviceable end of the range, but thats good enough.
Thanks Dan (I assume your name is actually Dan).turbodan wrote:Drag the edge of your fingernail across the vertical scoring on the cylinder walls. If it catches your fingernail, its a problem. It appears to be just cosmetic, and if you can't feel it with your fingernail its not a major problem. The rust on the cylinder wall is not good, but it may not actually be a serious issue. My last freebie M20 that I threw a turbo on had a similar issue in cylinder #1. The cylinder wall and rings had rusted somewhat but they cleaned themselves up just fine. Engine didn't even use oil.
There is a huge difference between optimal and serviceable. This bottom end appears to be somewhere on the serviceable end of the range, but thats good enough.
I did try the fingernail test last night and in 1-5, except at the very top 1cm, nothing can be felt. However, the top 1cm of all cylinders, especially on the North & South edges have what appears to be corrosion marks/roughness. And the rust spot in #6 can be felt by the fingernail, although it is not drastic.
While your note gives me hope, I'm definitely leaning towards just doing the whole damn thing. When we started this project I had anticipated we'd rebuilt the bottom-end regardless. It was only after we bought the engine and I learned more about things that I realized we might not have to rebuild it.
Question on getting the head rebuilt:
I have a range in my head for how much it should cost. I'd like to have a few of you more salty types chime in with what you think a reputable, experienced, shop would charge to take a M30B35 head and rebuild it to factory specs. No special cams or performance tweaks; goal is to make it reliable and smooth.
Thanks.
I have a range in my head for how much it should cost. I'd like to have a few of you more salty types chime in with what you think a reputable, experienced, shop would charge to take a M30B35 head and rebuild it to factory specs. No special cams or performance tweaks; goal is to make it reliable and smooth.
Thanks.
The deposits above the top ring in the cylinder bore are normal. You could probably just clean that stuff off if it bothers you. It accumulates there since the rings don't run up that high in the bore so theres nothing to scrape it off. Completely harmless and normal.
The important part of the bore is where the rings ride, and since the factory crosshatching is still visible other than the superficial scoring and rust spots, no significant wear has taken place.
The important part of the bore is where the rings ride, and since the factory crosshatching is still visible other than the superficial scoring and rust spots, no significant wear has taken place.
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mooseheadm5
- Beamter
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Oily combustion chambers indicate oil consumption, that amount probably rings, but since you put something in there that may be the reason. I agree with Dan's comments about the block, servicable and good for another hundred or two hundred thousand miles is not the same as new, it doesn't have to be perfect for near perfect results.cek wrote:To try to minimize rusting, knowing the injectors had been removed, I sprayed quite a bit of Gibbs in through the top of the head, intake, exhaust, and injector ports before dis-assembly. Given the motor was turned over manually it's entirely likely that some of that got pulled in.Mike W. wrote:Those combustion chambers look awfully oily from here, they should be powder dry, especially the exhaust valves. That more than the scoring would make me concerned.
That said, I'd like to understand your concern more specifically. What do oily combustion chambers indicate?
Note that the plan all along was to have the head totally rebuilt by a pro. I want it tits perfect. So my quest for knowledge is just that.
On the head, prices vary by location, and look for the best machine shop, not the cheapest, I've run across more that I didn't like than those I have liked. But if you want it perfect, put on your seat belt, figure $10 each, for valve guides, parts and labor, buck and a half for a good valve job, $50 for a surface, and it will need it, another buck and a half if they break it down and reassemble it, the valves themselves have wear on them, new valves will be $30 a hole or so, rockers are $15 each or so, rocker shafts $25X4 and a cam if needed will be another $300 for a new one. You could easily have a grand or more in the head alone if you're trying to make it perfect. OTTH, reuse the good parts and you might be in for under $500 or so, again, depending on location. And still have a head that's 99% as good as the $1200 one. Anyone can go thru an engine, throw in all new parts and have a good one. It's an acquired skill and an art to go thru, replacing only what's needed and end up with just as good for a quarter to a third the cost, but entierly doable.
Excellent info. Thanks.Mike W. wrote:Oily combustion chambers indicate oil consumption, that amount probably rings, but since you put something in there that may be the reason. I agree with Dan's comments about the block, servicable and good for another hundred or two hundred thousand miles is not the same as new, it doesn't have to be perfect for near perfect results.cek wrote:To try to minimize rusting, knowing the injectors had been removed, I sprayed quite a bit of Gibbs in through the top of the head, intake, exhaust, and injector ports before dis-assembly. Given the motor was turned over manually it's entirely likely that some of that got pulled in.Mike W. wrote:Those combustion chambers look awfully oily from here, they should be powder dry, especially the exhaust valves. That more than the scoring would make me concerned.
That said, I'd like to understand your concern more specifically. What do oily combustion chambers indicate?
Note that the plan all along was to have the head totally rebuilt by a pro. I want it tits perfect. So my quest for knowledge is just that.
On the head, prices vary by location, and look for the best machine shop, not the cheapest, I've run across more that I didn't like than those I have liked. But if you want it perfect, put on your seat belt, figure $10 each, for valve guides, parts and labor, buck and a half for a good valve job, $50 for a surface, and it will need it, another buck and a half if they break it down and reassemble it, the valves themselves have wear on them, new valves will be $30 a hole or so, rockers are $15 each or so, rocker shafts $25X4 and a cam if needed will be another $300 for a new one. You could easily have a grand or more in the head alone if you're trying to make it perfect. OTTH, reuse the good parts and you might be in for under $500 or so, again, depending on location. And still have a head that's 99% as good as the $1200 one. Anyone can go thru an engine, throw in all new parts and have a good one. It's an acquired skill and an art to go thru, replacing only what's needed and end up with just as good for a quarter to a third the cost, but entirely doable.
The guy I'm planning on using (Chuck at C&D Performance, Kirkland, WA) comes highly recommended by the E30/Pro-3 guys up here. I've spoken with him on the phone and he's given me a range that I'm very comfortable with and is inline with your numbers. Of course we won't know for sure until all parts are inspected.
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Kyle in NO
- Posts: 17638
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Nasty Orleans------> Batten-Rooehjch------>More Souther LA
Just do the bottom end. Why would you pull a nice engine from your car only to install a shittier one? My B34 bottom end that I installed in my turbo 533i years ago had corrosion in the cylinders just like yours. I just scuffed it up and let it roll. Works fine. Doesn't smoke. Doesn't use oil. 14psi of boost no problem. I still hate knowing its condition, and if I had the money at the time I would have done it right.
I have another B35 sitting here that will get done the RIGHT way pretty soon. Then I will be happy. Maybe.
I have another B35 sitting here that will get done the RIGHT way pretty soon. Then I will be happy. Maybe.
Score!
Was at Harbor Freight picking up Soda blasting media for the soda blaster I ordered via Amazon (that I thought would be here today). Noticed they had a blast cabinet sitting by the front door.
Asked the sales guy "That for sale?" He said "Yes, it's a display model. Missing some parts. Make me an offer. Normally $209, the tag currently says $105."
I checked on the price for a new set of gloves and the other missing parts. It'll cost me ~$50, but I won't need them for soda blasting.
I offered $55. He said he had to add a penny, so it was $55.01.
Already assembled too!
Every gearhead should have a blast cabinet!
Was at Harbor Freight picking up Soda blasting media for the soda blaster I ordered via Amazon (that I thought would be here today). Noticed they had a blast cabinet sitting by the front door.
Asked the sales guy "That for sale?" He said "Yes, it's a display model. Missing some parts. Make me an offer. Normally $209, the tag currently says $105."
I checked on the price for a new set of gloves and the other missing parts. It'll cost me ~$50, but I won't need them for soda blasting.
I offered $55. He said he had to add a penny, so it was $55.01.
Already assembled too!
Every gearhead should have a blast cabinet!
You are moving a little faster than me, but we are doing the same things. Send me an email: ldsbeaker@gmail.com
That and what appears to be a parts washer to it's right are but two of the things I'd have if I had more room.cek wrote:Score!
Was at Harbor Freight picking up Soda blasting media for the soda blaster I ordered via Amazon (that I thought would be here today). Noticed they had a blast cabinet sitting by the front door.
Asked the sales guy "That for sale?" He said "Yes, it's a display model. Missing some parts. Make me an offer. Normally $209, the tag currently says $105."
I checked on the price for a new set of gloves and the other missing parts. It'll cost me ~$50, but I won't need them for soda blasting.
I offered $55. He said he had to add a penny, so it was $55.01.
Already assembled too!
Every gearhead should have a blast cabinet!
A little parts cleaning action. Just enough so I can start to strategize how to make them like new. For the alternator it's pretty clear it will clean up nice. I'll get the fan and pully re-plated and probably powder coat the rest. I wonder if I need to get it tested to ensure it's functioning tip-top-shape... ???
I bought a cheap little steam cleaner at Fry's and figured I'd give it a try on the PS pump. Works really well for getting stuff out of little crevices and so forth.
It will be interesting to see how soda blasting compares.
My parts washer needs to be cleaned out. The Purple Power cleaner I have in it has been over used and there's so muck that it's lost its effectiveness.
I bought a cheap little steam cleaner at Fry's and figured I'd give it a try on the PS pump. Works really well for getting stuff out of little crevices and so forth.
It will be interesting to see how soda blasting compares.
My parts washer needs to be cleaned out. The Purple Power cleaner I have in it has been over used and there's so muck that it's lost its effectiveness.
Yes, I plan on using the B35 oil pan.kzolee wrote:Do You plan to use the E32/34 oil pan? (I have chosen this way, and i am satisfied so far)
If you plan to use that pan, you will gain a little more ground clearance, but don't part too close to curb.
Ooh, that's a useful pic! thanks.To the alternator: with some M20 parts you can make the alternator air cooling functional:
Soda Blasting
The soda blaster arrived yesterday and I took it for a spin on a few parts. No doubt this is a high-speed-low-drag way to clean parts; totally worth the investment.
I looked at the units Harbor Freight sells and also online. I noticed that this unit on Amazon is identical to the HF unit except it has wheels. With a 40lb capacity I guessed having wheels would be important (I was right).
Nothing too surprising in the parts and other than the regulator/moisture trap the quality is solid (for the price). The regulator is serviceable, just nowhere near as nice as the others I have in my air system.
I decided to just do it outside versus in my blast cabinet; I have not yet had a chance to seal the seams in the cabinet and don't have a hose long enough for the soda blaster to reach.
I bought a bag of HF's medium grit soda and XL grit soda. For this test run I just used the medium grit seen here.
My first test subject, the upper timing chain cover.
Wow. 5 minutes later:
The plastic on the donor car, such as this distributor cover and the air filter assembly are covered in cosmoline. I was curious how good a job the soda would do at getting that damn cosmoline off (every other method I've tried is just hugely labor intensive).
Before:
After:
Not bad. Not bad at all! I would not do this on plastic parts where I needed to retain a shiny luster though as you end up with matte surface.
My next test was on the AC compressor which I had not cleaned at all. The test was to see if you could get away with just using the soda blaster to get deep grime off.
As you can see, the answer is no. I used quite a bit of soda and time/effort to just make this much progress. So using a combination of degreaser, steam cleaning, scrub brushes, and elbow grease to get most grime off is needed first. Then I'll use the soda blaster to make it purdy.
Finally, I wanted to see how a fairly corroded piece of aluminum would come out. I purchased a AFM from a member here since I only have one for two engines and I'm concerned the one on the car may be having issues. I should have asked the seller to send me more pics before I bought because he failed to show me pics of the top. I was pretty disappointed when it came to discover how crappy the top was.
Before:
After:
I'm no longer disappointed with my purchase. The soda blaster made it look way more than good enough.
Next I'll try the XL grit soda on a few pieces. I'm really curious how good I can make the intake manifold look...and whether I can get away without having to powder coat it to meet my standards.
I looked at the units Harbor Freight sells and also online. I noticed that this unit on Amazon is identical to the HF unit except it has wheels. With a 40lb capacity I guessed having wheels would be important (I was right).
Nothing too surprising in the parts and other than the regulator/moisture trap the quality is solid (for the price). The regulator is serviceable, just nowhere near as nice as the others I have in my air system.
I decided to just do it outside versus in my blast cabinet; I have not yet had a chance to seal the seams in the cabinet and don't have a hose long enough for the soda blaster to reach.
I bought a bag of HF's medium grit soda and XL grit soda. For this test run I just used the medium grit seen here.
My first test subject, the upper timing chain cover.
Wow. 5 minutes later:
The plastic on the donor car, such as this distributor cover and the air filter assembly are covered in cosmoline. I was curious how good a job the soda would do at getting that damn cosmoline off (every other method I've tried is just hugely labor intensive).
Before:
After:
Not bad. Not bad at all! I would not do this on plastic parts where I needed to retain a shiny luster though as you end up with matte surface.
My next test was on the AC compressor which I had not cleaned at all. The test was to see if you could get away with just using the soda blaster to get deep grime off.
As you can see, the answer is no. I used quite a bit of soda and time/effort to just make this much progress. So using a combination of degreaser, steam cleaning, scrub brushes, and elbow grease to get most grime off is needed first. Then I'll use the soda blaster to make it purdy.
Finally, I wanted to see how a fairly corroded piece of aluminum would come out. I purchased a AFM from a member here since I only have one for two engines and I'm concerned the one on the car may be having issues. I should have asked the seller to send me more pics before I bought because he failed to show me pics of the top. I was pretty disappointed when it came to discover how crappy the top was.
Before:
After:
I'm no longer disappointed with my purchase
. The soda blaster made it look way more than good enough.Next I'll try the XL grit soda on a few pieces. I'm really curious how good I can make the intake manifold look...and whether I can get away without having to powder coat it to meet my standards.
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heinrich535i
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Jun 21, 2012 12:31 AM
- Location: Kalamazoo, MI
While waiting for my son to get out of bed this morning to help me finish putting the 'new' exhaust in Vlad I cleaned up the water housing for the B35.
Lots of corrosion around the connectors.
After:
The corrosion is pretty bad; in one case there's an actual hole through the housing.
I may seek out a 'new' housing instead of using this one. Opinions?
Lots of corrosion around the connectors.
After:
The corrosion is pretty bad; in one case there's an actual hole through the housing.
I may seek out a 'new' housing instead of using this one. Opinions?
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CharleyDog
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Aug 13, 2011 7:36 PM
- Location: Virginia
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RangerGress
- Posts: 678
- Joined: Jan 20, 2012 3:15 PM
- Location: Savannah, GA
- Contact:
Just to calibrate this thread, if the build Alpinass posted below is a 9.5 then I will be happy with mine being an 8. Just to calibrate.
More pics here: http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?p=1164494#1164494
More pics here: http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?p=1164494#1164494
I found a 533/M5 flywheel. It is on it's way to me now. Thus I have, starting from the rear of the car:cek wrote: It's not really part of the rebuild, but it is going to get done at the same time: A Pelican Parts Clutch Super Kit. A key component showed up today. I had a 10% off web coupon for PP and used it to order a whole bunch of stuff...
- 5-Speed transmission from an '87 535is (in car now)
- New Selector Rod Seal
- New input shaft bearing seal
- Clutch hose
- Clutch slave cylinder
- Spring for Throw-out Bearing Release Lever
- Pivot Pin for Throw-out Bearing Release Lever
- Pressure plate from an '87 535is (in car now)
- Sachs clutch for an E28 M30 car (as seen above)
- New throw out bearing for above (part of kit)
- 533/M5 flywheel (not yet in possession of, but paid for)
- Rear Main Seal/Flywheel Seal (90 x 110 x 12)
- M30B35 motor
I was thinking through things and realized I may have bought the wrong clutch kit. I bought the PP kit for an E28 535. I assumed the important part of the clutch was what happened on the transmission side, not the engine side. And the B35 swap FAQ says I can use the E28 pressure plate & throwout bearing.
Will this clutch & pressure plate work well with the 533/M5 flywheel?
I need to be educated on this. Searching and reading other threads on the topic has really just made me more confused.
Help?