Dinan M5 turbo on the bay!!

[skip535i]

It seems like this board really enjoys ganging up and lynching selected members. Does it make you guys feel like a part of the group to jump in and break this guys balls every single chance you get? Its a little out of line. Chill out.

Well, some truth to that . . . BUT . . . our beloved M635 does have a tendency to deliver his wit & wisdom in large, bitter doses with little regard for those who may not have a taste for his ascerbic (and to be honest, sometimes rather pompous) brand of communication.

I can only assume that he is bored and chooses his vocabulary expressly for the purpose of bringing his recipe for "contention stew" to a rolling boil - and taking a rather perverse pleasure when those silly enough to have a taste end up with burnt palates and nausea.

VERY well put, Frank. Somehow you seem to have the words to explain those sort of things all the time. Very crafty with your words, good job.

Option0002 (Landis)...I PMed you.

[vance]

So now that the war seems to be over.....I still love the idea of a turbo M5 If the sale falls thru I'm still definatly wanting those parts. And back to my original point of this post....what do you guys think about this turbo setup from a performance standpoint?

Search Lucifer's + Hammer for an idea. Here is the link to the first installment. http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=26 ... ers+hammer

Vance

[tsmall07]

A message to skip and everyone else thats against M635csi:

How would you feel if every time you tried to post something or sell something, multiple people lashed out at you. I'd probably get a bit defensive, and I know the rest of you would too. This thread was a reasonable one until everyone and their mother (who haven't had any personal experience) started the personal attacks on this one individual. Let any one of you who has not ever made a mistake be the first to cast a stone. Everyone is making this guy out to be someone terrible, when in reality, it all stems from one regrettable incident that neither party behaved as they should. I jumped on the "Hate M635csi" bandwagon for a while, but then I really thought about it. I've been misunderstood before and its no picnic. You shouldn't form an opinion about a person from someone else's experiences. Especially when those experiences are only relayed though a text based community. I challenge all of you to re-read this thread through the eyes of M635csi and see what your reactions would have been. He didn't even say anything in the thread before everyone jumped all over him.

[tsmall07]

I can only assume that he is bored and chooses his vocabulary expressly for the purpose of bringing his recipe for "contention stew" to a rolling boil - and taking a rather perverse pleasure when those silly enough to have a taste end up with burnt palates and nausea.

He didn't even say anything until AFTER everyone started taking stabs at him.

[Duke]

I challenge all of you to re-read this thread through the eyes of M635csi and see what your reactions would have been.

Yea................lets do that, if fact look at my initial comments. I did not know that M635csi was the seller, nor did I care. I made very constructive comments on finding out the condition of the used parts before going crazy with bidding and possibly getting junk. Now, look at M635csi comments in reference to mine. Nothing but childish personal attacks on me. So is he deserving of the "wrath" of the board, maybe. He has lost any respect that I may have had for him.

[M635CSi]

M635csi...you are an idiot.

I am many thing but an idiot is not one of them. For you to suggest otherwise only damages whatever credibility you may have had remaining.

You seemed to think that SOMEHOW, even though you've turned the majority of E28 owners against you that you would still be able to sell an E28 product for good money.

Ahahahaha your comments are worthy of ridicule, hence, ridiculous... The majority of E28 owners have never heard of this board and so put zero value on the words of a "proud 535i" owner. Beyond that, you kid yourself if you think you speak for the majority when all you are is a heckler. I have numerous people on this board I enjoy exchanging messages with and some who I've welcomed to my home. None have expressed the least concern with what you suggest are the beliefs of the majority.

Also I think it's funny that you only sold the kit for $1525...that's LAUGHABLE.

Who are you kidding? Thinking is simply not something you do... For reasons you will probably never know, I have already taken more than $1,525 of value out of those parts so if I gave those parts away I would still be ahead.

I wouldn't be at all suprised to see you take it back from the high bidder and sell it to someone else, you seem to be good at that.

There's an "r" in the word surprised and you've got the relationships of the transaction backwards. The high "bidder" doesn't have it to take back from. He is simply the high bidder; the future is unknown...

[skip535i]

I challenge all of you to re-read this thread through the eyes of M635csi and see what your reactions would have been.

Yea................lets do than, if fact look at my initial comments. I did not know that M635csi was the seller, nor did I care. I made very constructive comments on finding out the condition of the used parts before going crazy with bidding and possibly getting junk. Now, look at M635csi comment in reference to mine. Nothing but childish personal attacks on me. So is he deserving of the "wrath" of the board, maybe. He has lost any respect that I may have had for him.

Thanks for pointing that out for me Duke...as that's EXACTLY how I saw it happen.

We didn't lash, Tyler, M635CSI DID.

[tsmall07]

I'm not saying that he's never said anything wrong. I'm saying he's not the devil incarnate. I agree that his comments towards you were uncalled for, but if I were him, I would assume that you were attacking me (him) due to the fact that it was discussed in the for sale section that he was the seller of these parts.

I agree that he is overly defensive and can have stinging comebacks that aren't deserved, but does that make him the worst person in the world. He even had a response to me one time that was along the same lines.

Me- "Just because you use big words doesn't make you any less full of shit."
M635csi- "They're only big words because you're illiterate."

Honestly that is the best comeback I've ever heard. Such mastery of the language deserves some respect, no? Maybe if some of the things were taken as witty remarks instead of personal attacks this whole situation would be better.

[Duke]

I'm not saying that he's never said anything wrong. I'm saying he's not the devil incarnate. I agree that his comments towards you were uncalled for, but if I were him, I would assume that you were attacking me (him) due to the fact that it was discussed in the for sale section that he was the seller of these parts.

" I did not know that M635csi was the seller, nor did I care"

[tsmall07]

Thanks for pointing that out for me Duke...as that's EXACTLY how I saw it happen.

We didn't lash, Tyler, M635CSI DID.

6th post in the thread:
Johnnye23- Guys look who the seller is and do your homework. Once bitten twice shy here. Johnny

13th post in the thread:
Martin in BellevueWA- I cannot imagine anyone on this board would take a chance with dealing with m635csi.

15th post in the thread:
M635csi: Congratulations on being the highest bidder… What I think is that you shouldn’t have posted this on the mye28.com board…
because he knew this was going to happen.....

[tsmall07]

" I did not know that M635csi was the seller, nor did I care"

I never said you knew or cared. I said it may have looked like you did do to the fact that the seller had been discussed before.



How many of you that are following this thread have ever actually had a bad transaction with M635csi? If you haven't then you have no right to say anything about him or his character.

[M635CSi]

what do you guys think about this turbo setup from a performance standpoint?

If I were at step one of a turbo build. I would go with a tubular manifold, not log type. All of the stupid high HP cars in Europe run turbo on top tubular manifold systems.

I know this is a M30, not a S38, but you get the idea -

I get the idea that neither Dinan nor Alpina were interested in using a tubular turbo manifolds. And I have a pretty good idea why. FWIW, I've heard of Dinan turbo cars going over 100,000 miles without being opened up. I don't believe that's going to be the case with an aftermarket tubular turbo manifold.

A tubular manifold is OK for racing or intermittent street use but if you want a reliable aftermarket system, knowledgeable people go with cast manifolds; period.

Beyond that, hanging the turbo off the top of the engine is something I have no bid for and something you won't find many engineers would do. They are good for drag racing.

[Duke]

knowledgeable people go with cast manifolds; period.

.........................................................well at the very least, we are back on subject.

Check this link for a tube vs log manifold test - warning, its Honda but still relevant-

http://www.full-race.com/articles/Bseri ... riteup.pdf

[Ben]

This thread makes my head hurt.

[M635CSi]

I would not touch it with a 1000' pole.

Used pistons, used (nasty) turbo, used everything. Is the manifold cracked? Is the turbo serviceable.......how is the crank?

Without having a competent shop check all the parts, you may end up with a box of junk.

I have learned myself that used unchecked parts could easily cost you more than new parts.

If all of this was $500, then maybe………$1500+, no way.


The seller has been on ebay since Nov 06 and only has two feedbacks. CAUTION.

Duke, rather than rant about what you know not, ask some questions. Reading through the ad on ebay should have really been enough for you to id M635CSi as the seller. The fact that you didn't make the connection suggests you're not connecting dots. If you're not connecting dots, that goes to your ability to diagnose your car. This is NOT an attack on you but a simple observation. How many Dinan turbo M88 engines do you think there are in the world? How many people with an M635CSi in New York do you think have them?

It would have been easy enough for you to suggest BMWS38 (or anyone else) ask the seller (M635CSi) some questions to gain information and comfort rather than pontificate on a topic of your ignorance. I get frustrated with you because I expect more from you. I don't get frustrated with some of the others because I expect nothing from them...

[shifty]

I REALLY thought I remembered this thread being about an S38 turbo manifold. . .

[option00002]

I REALLY thought I remembered this thread being about an S38 turbo manifold. . .

It was...for about a second. Now it is about group solidarity and the pitfalls of 'society'.

[M635CSi]

knowledgeable people go with cast manifolds; period.

Check this link for a tube vs log manifold test - warning, its Honda but still relevant-

http://www.full-race.com/articles/Bseri ... riteup.pdf

In addition to being a biased "test" by the manufacturer, its not relevant.

If the only thing you care about is horsepower then using a tubular manifold is a no brainer. When you know why BMW, Alpina, Dinan and TCD ALL chose a cast iron manifold design for their turbocharged engines, then you will have begun to understand...

[Duke]

When you know why BMW, Alpina, Dinan and TCD ALL chose a cast iron manifold design for their turbocharged engines, then you will have begun to understand...

Stolen from Bimmer Forums - Why they use them - "cast manifolds cost significantly less, can be mass produced with tight tolerances, and can withstand more intense thermal abuse. These are the reasons that you'll typically see OEMs use a cast manifold."

In other words, the cheap, easy and durable way. Any other reason you come up with is BS. Oh yea, you did not give us any reasons why.................as usual.

[skip535i]

I REALLY thought I remembered this thread being about an S38 turbo manifold. . .

It was...for about a second. Now it is about group solidarity and the pitfalls of 'society'.

THAT'S not fair Landis...

To say what YOU said is to "group" us. SOME of us are just upset that M635csi has gone and done it yet again with his manipulation, his condescending nature, and his faulty reasoning.

Whatever...

[M635CSi]

When you know why BMW, Alpina, Dinan and TCD ALL chose a cast iron manifold design for their turbocharged engines, then you will have begun to understand...

Stolen from Bimmer Forums - Why they use them - "cast manifolds cost significantly less, can be mass produced with tight tolerances, and can withstand more intense thermal abuse. These are the reasons that you'll typically see OEMs use a cast manifold."

In other words, the cheap, easy and durable way. Any other reason you come up with is BS. Oh yea, you did not give us any reasons why.................as usual.

Duke, you're missing the dots and talking shit... I gave the reason of reliability. Cast iron manifolds are generally more reliable than tubular manifolds. The reason they're more reliable is they don't suffer from as much thermal fatigue. There are a number of other advantages but that's a good one.

In point of fact, cast manifolds are more expensive than tubular manifolds until the crossover point at which the economy of production outweighs tooling costs. If you're making one manifold, then tubular is the cheap dirty way to do it, not setting up to cast a manifold. A cast iron turbo manifold is the sign of professionals at work, which isn't to say a quality tubular manifold can't be made. It's just that most people making tubular manifolds have neither the experience or training to make one that will be reliable. I doubt Alpina and Dinan were real concerned with the difference in price for their low production runs so I wouldn't bet that was their reason for choosing the iron manifolds.

[Duke]

A cast iron turbo manifold is the sign of professionals at work, which isn't to say a quality tubular manifold can't be made. It's just that most people making tubular manifolds have neither the experience or training to make one that will be reliable.

I refer back to the original picture I posted and the URL of 666 Fabrication.



I guess you are right and this guy’s work is less than professional compared to a log manifold, my bad. I am sure that it is completely unreliable and will turn to dust in a short time. It’s better to go with a 20+ year old log manifold from Dinan.

You are right once again; I am going to go look for all of the "dots" I am missing.

Peace.......................out.

[option00002]

I REALLY thought I remembered this thread being about an S38 turbo manifold. . .

It was...for about a second. Now it is about group solidarity and the pitfalls of 'society'.

THAT'S not fair Landis...

To say what YOU said is to "group" us. SOME of us are just upset that M635csi has gone and done it yet again with his manipulation, his condescending nature, and his faulty reasoning.

Whatever...

Skip,

You choosing to vilify an individual under questionable pretense represented by a small constituency was not my reference in bringing up 'group' solidarity.

This is an e28 group/community that must function on a basic framework of decency and right action. This by no means equates to knoding heads and sugar coating truths and it certainly requires certain checks and balances. Fortunately, we have liberal moderators and free speech to do that. But at what point do we exercise free speech to such an extent the basic rights of another are violated.

Y'all just come across as a vicious circle jerk on the odd man out.

Lastly, if as an intelligent, sentient being you can recognize what you feel to be manipulative, condescending, and faulty reasoning be glad of that awareness and steer clear. Leave the policing to the cops and don't resort to redundant, personal attacks.

[vance]

Y'all just come across as a vicious circle jerk on the odd man out.

Technically, living that far above the Mason-Dixon line you shouldn't be using "ya'll".

Vance

[option00002]

Y'all just come across as a vicious circle jerk on the odd man out.

Technically, living that far above the Mason-Dixon line you shouldn't be using "ya'll".

Vance

I lived in VA for over two years and they were so delighted I left that they said I could use it with discretion only when Southerners are participating in the discussion.

[turbodan]

I REALLY thought I remembered this thread being about an S38 turbo manifold. . .

It was...for about a second. Now it is about group solidarity and the pitfalls of 'society'.

THAT'S not fair Landis...

To say what YOU said is to "group" us. SOME of us are just upset that M635csi has gone and done it yet again with his manipulation, his condescending nature, and his faulty reasoning.

Whatever...

Skip,

You choosing to vilify an individual under questionable pretense represented by a small constituency was not my reference in bringing up 'group' solidarity.

This is an e28 group/community that must function on a basic framework of decency and right action. This by no means equates to knoding heads and sugar coating truths and it certainly requires certain checks and balances. Fortunately, we have liberal moderators and free speech to do that. But at what point do we exercise free speech to such an extent the basic rights of another are violated.

Y'all just come across as a vicious circle jerk on the odd man out.

Lastly, if as an intelligent, sentient being you can recognize what you feel to be manipulative, condescending, and faulty reasoning be glad of that awareness and steer clear. Leave the policing to the cops and don't resort to redundant, personal attacks.

He didn't say all tubular manifolds are shit. That would be a silly side to take. He's just saying that theres nothing wrong with a cast manifold. I agree with that. You could probably make 800 RWHP or more with that Dinan manifold. A tubular manifold would probably spool up faster and make a little more power, but whats the point when youre talking about 400 or 500+ HP? It is a matter of fact that cast iron is more durable than tubular fabrications, and I think the slight trade of in performance for incredible reliability is worth it. Apparently it made sense to al lot of manufacturers like that.

[robeyff]

I can only assume that he is bored and chooses his vocabulary expressly for the purpose of bringing his recipe for "contention stew" to a rolling boil - and taking a rather perverse pleasure when those silly enough to have a taste end up with burnt palates and nausea.

He didn't even say anything until AFTER everyone started taking stabs at him.

That is true - we all, however, make judgements concerning situations & individuals based on experience and M635 has a history here.

Given that in earlier posts he indicated he had no desire to be part of an E28 "community," and the recent sour wheel transaction we all read about here - coupled with his penchant for posting opinion as fact (I can't remember an "I think" or "I could be wrong . . ." in his posts) and a natural curiosity arises as to what his motivations are.

I can only assume he takes a fair amount of pleasure observing the responses to his well calculated baiting and finds some measure of satisfaction in his ability to construct and nurture 6 mile, 4 lane threads of invective from an original dirt road post.

But I could be wrong . . . 8)

[option00002]

But I could be wrong . . . 8)

Clearly...

or remarkably paranoid and insecure

[M635CSi]

A cast iron turbo manifold is the sign of professionals at work, which isn't to say a quality tubular manifold can't be made. It's just that most people making tubular manifolds have neither the experience or training to make one that will be reliable.

I refer back to the original picture I posted and the URL of 666 Fabrication.



I guess you are right and this guy’s work is less than professional compared to a log manifold, my bad. I am sure that it is completely unreliable and will turn to dust in a short time. It’s better to go with a 20+ year old log manifold from Dinan.

You are right once again; I am going to go look for all of the "dots" I am missing.

Peace.......................out.

Duke,

Instead of looking for dots, why not learn where they are? Then when you have a situation in your life rather than looking around in confusion, you can go directly to the source of the problem. I don't mean to be harsh so let me take a moment to apologize if I have been. But if you've ever worked with a donkey, you'd know the first thing you have to do it hit it over the head with a 2x4... that gets its attention. Then, it will listen.

I'm not going to take pot shots at another man's work product while he isn't here to defend himself so that discussion is closed. I will say I would take a 20 year old cast iron Dinan exhaust manifold every day all day for my daily driver over anything pieced together from bits of tubing and welded; key point: for my daily driver. If I want to run the quarter mile I'd use a tubular manifold but then if I want to run the quarter mile I'm not that worried about reliability.

The fact that Steve Dinan is a renowned BMW expert that built his reputation turbocharging BMWs says a lot. The fact that after twenty years his engines are still running and the exhaust manifolds haven't cracked says more. The fact that we're even having a discussion about what is better a rusty 20 year old Dinan turbo cast iron manifold or a brand new tubular one made by someone yet to be discovered says it all.

I prefer the Dinan manifold thank you very much...

[robeyff]

I don't mean to be harsh so let me take a moment to apologize if I have been. But if you've ever worked with a donkey, you'd know the first thing you have to do it hit it over the head with a 2x4... that gets its attention. Then, it will listen.

I rest my case.