Another Oil question
-
bigmoose_86_535i
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
[QUOTE="kendogg"]OK, here's a quick question. Who knows that the differences in the New mileage Mobil 1 oil's? Are any of them the same as the old mobil 1? I'm curious, cause, it's oil change time, and I don't know what to get, or if it is time to switch brands.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if it is the same as the old mobil 1. I've been using Amsoil www.amsoil.com in all of my cars for the last 2 years. They have been recomending 25K miles oil changes since 1972. I feel safer with a company that has over 30 years (longer than mobil 1) with synthetic oils and extended drain intervals.
Fuel economy with the wifes 86 535i auto with 215/60/14 bottle caps was 23/26 city/highway mpg. I used their air filter, engine oil 20w50, ATF (took over 4 gallons to flush torque converter and trans, and gear oil 75w90 for the differentials.
I got 29 mpg once on a long cruise at 55mph (was a busy holiday lots of speeding traps).
~ryan
~ryan
I don't know if it is the same as the old mobil 1. I've been using Amsoil www.amsoil.com in all of my cars for the last 2 years. They have been recomending 25K miles oil changes since 1972. I feel safer with a company that has over 30 years (longer than mobil 1) with synthetic oils and extended drain intervals.
Fuel economy with the wifes 86 535i auto with 215/60/14 bottle caps was 23/26 city/highway mpg. I used their air filter, engine oil 20w50, ATF (took over 4 gallons to flush torque converter and trans, and gear oil 75w90 for the differentials.
I got 29 mpg once on a long cruise at 55mph (was a busy holiday lots of speeding traps).
~ryan
~ryan
Have heard two theories on BMW synthetic oil: 1. It is a Castrol RS formula, not fake Castrol Syntec; and 2. It is Mobil Delvac, a synthetic high-mileage diesel oil
Mobil 1: Not sure about the difference with the new stuff, but used it for 50k+ miles and had no complaints
Amsoil: Never used it, but is considered more of a good, high-mileage synthetic oil than a racing oil, though many use it in racing applications.
Royal Purple: Used RP 20w50 for 15k or so and preferred it over Mobil 1 15w50...smoother, better throttle response, and an overall "happier" motor
Redline: Have only used it for 10k so far, but IMHO it is the best. Similar results to Royal Purple, but it definitely freed up some power. For only $2 more per qt than Mobil 1, why not?
And if you feel like going back to a dino oil, Kendall GT1 is regarded by many as the best.
Mobil 1: Not sure about the difference with the new stuff, but used it for 50k+ miles and had no complaints
Amsoil: Never used it, but is considered more of a good, high-mileage synthetic oil than a racing oil, though many use it in racing applications.
Royal Purple: Used RP 20w50 for 15k or so and preferred it over Mobil 1 15w50...smoother, better throttle response, and an overall "happier" motor
Redline: Have only used it for 10k so far, but IMHO it is the best. Similar results to Royal Purple, but it definitely freed up some power. For only $2 more per qt than Mobil 1, why not?
And if you feel like going back to a dino oil, Kendall GT1 is regarded by many as the best.
-
Guest
if you are doing changes every 4K... don't pay for synthetic IMO... just drop the interval to 3K and use Castrol GTX in 5w-30...
I agree, it doesn't make sense to change synthetic oils every 4-5k miles.
I've read a couple of different independent tests about extended oil change intervals while using synthetic oils. The consensus seems to be that changing the filter and adding a quart of oil at 7500 miles and a full change of oil and filter every 15k miles is fine for the typical modern, street driven automobile/SUV/PU Truck.
Rich
-
MarkD in NJ
- Posts: 865
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Has anyone opened a motor after 100,000 miles of 15,000 oil changes performed per BMW? The inside of the motor is caked with black shit that has built up because, after 5000 or so miles, the oil is no longer able to neutralize the bi-products of combustion. I don't care what tests show. This is the only real world test that matters.
I've also seen the inside of 400,000 mile motors that had regular 3000 mile oil/filter changes with cheapest-brand-possible (did you know ShopRite has its own brand?!) dino oil and they look and run as if they were new.
I don't advocate using the cheapest oil possible and I do realize there are many advantages to synthetic oil. I use synthetic oil in the Turbo Volvo. I'm just saying that the single most important factor effecting engine life is the oil. Run synthetic oil? Absolutely. Leaving it in longer than 7500 miles constitutes abuse in my book.
I've also seen the inside of 400,000 mile motors that had regular 3000 mile oil/filter changes with cheapest-brand-possible (did you know ShopRite has its own brand?!) dino oil and they look and run as if they were new.
I don't advocate using the cheapest oil possible and I do realize there are many advantages to synthetic oil. I use synthetic oil in the Turbo Volvo. I'm just saying that the single most important factor effecting engine life is the oil. Run synthetic oil? Absolutely. Leaving it in longer than 7500 miles constitutes abuse in my book.
-
Rich in WI
- Posts: 1115
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
A big part of oil change intervals is the type of driving you are doing. If you are on the hiway for most of the time, longer intervals are OK (maybe not 15,000). But if you are doing a lot of in town driving for short distances, a shorter interval may be needed. Condensation and combustion by-products are worse for short trips.
My oil change interval with Amsoil is 5,000 miles if it's a lot of short distance driving or 7,500 miles if I've been on the hiway for most of the time.
Rich in WI
My oil change interval with Amsoil is 5,000 miles if it's a lot of short distance driving or 7,500 miles if I've been on the hiway for most of the time.
Rich in WI
Here's what I don't understand...with all the money that some of us throw at these cars (myself included), why wouldn't anyone protect their "investment" by using a good synthetic oil?
I think 15k intervals with synthetic would be OK as long as the filter was changed at 7500. I like to change mine every 6-7k.
I think 15k intervals with synthetic would be OK as long as the filter was changed at 7500. I like to change mine every 6-7k.
-
MarkD in NJ
- Posts: 865
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Mount Holly, NJ
But Raj, it is not the filter that wears out - it is the additive package in the oil itself that stops working. The oil continues to lubricate to 15000 miles, however, the anti-corosion factor is greatly reduced as is the oil's ability to absorb blow-by gasses and the like.
And like you said, with all the money some folks throw at their cars, why not use a good synthetic...AND change it every 3-5000 miles. Or 7500 if you must. If you drive 15000 miles per year, the cost is maybe $100 instead of $50 per year.
And like you said, with all the money some folks throw at their cars, why not use a good synthetic...AND change it every 3-5000 miles. Or 7500 if you must. If you drive 15000 miles per year, the cost is maybe $100 instead of $50 per year.
-
Guest
I still say you can use a longer oil change interval with a good synthetic especially with our older engines. Here's what I'm basing it on.
1)I doubt many go a full 7500 miles without adding at least one quart of oil. For arguments sake let's say you add a quart every 3700 miles. You've just renewed the additive package to near new.
2)You change the filter and dump in another quart with the filter change at 7500 miles. You have just renewed the additive package again.
3) At about 10k-11k, you add a quart to top off, and guess what ,you've renewed the oil's additive package.
4) At 15K you change the oil and the flter. Sure it's going to be black, but it probably is probably still lubricating just fine and the additive package is still doing it's job.
Now bear in mind, this type of longer service interval is probably only good for a car that gets driven mixed use, highway/city. If you're doing alot of stop/go in bumper-bumper rush hour,I would consider this to be severe usage and it would be wise to change the oil at 7500 mile intervals.
If you want to stick with the 3k oil change, use Dino oil.
Rich
[Edit by Rich Euro M5 on [TIME]1111530453[/TIME]]
1)I doubt many go a full 7500 miles without adding at least one quart of oil. For arguments sake let's say you add a quart every 3700 miles. You've just renewed the additive package to near new.
2)You change the filter and dump in another quart with the filter change at 7500 miles. You have just renewed the additive package again.
3) At about 10k-11k, you add a quart to top off, and guess what ,you've renewed the oil's additive package.
4) At 15K you change the oil and the flter. Sure it's going to be black, but it probably is probably still lubricating just fine and the additive package is still doing it's job.
Now bear in mind, this type of longer service interval is probably only good for a car that gets driven mixed use, highway/city. If you're doing alot of stop/go in bumper-bumper rush hour,I would consider this to be severe usage and it would be wise to change the oil at 7500 mile intervals.
If you want to stick with the 3k oil change, use Dino oil.
Rich
[Edit by Rich Euro M5 on [TIME]1111530453[/TIME]]
We have been running synthetic oil in my family's cars since they were new/near new (except my old 5er, switched at 210k). My mom's '97 E320 (4 valve inline-6) has been running on green-cap Mobil 1 (10w30) with 7500 mile oil change intervals. Sometime early last year, my parents managed to miss an oil change and the car had gone almost 14k since the last one. I was horrified, and changed the oil as soon as I found out. The oil was pretty dark when it came out, but hasn't caused any problems and the valvetrain was still spotless. That was around 100k, now the car has 160k with no leaks, no oil added between changes, and it runs perfectly.
Can you run 15k on synthetic oil? Yes. Should you? I wouldn't, but many have with great results. IMHO changing dino oil every 3k will offer similar protection to synthetic changed every 7500, assuming normal driving conditions. But if the car gets driven hard at all (ie sees redline at least once a day), I'd pick the synthetic every time.
Can you run 15k on synthetic oil? Yes. Should you? I wouldn't, but many have with great results. IMHO changing dino oil every 3k will offer similar protection to synthetic changed every 7500, assuming normal driving conditions. But if the car gets driven hard at all (ie sees redline at least once a day), I'd pick the synthetic every time.
-
Steve Haygood
- Posts: 1943
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Thomaston Ga
- Contact:
You might want to read the owner's manual....or maybe all 80's BMW engines are exotic, because almost all of us fall into the temp range of 20w50. I have never put 5w30 in a BMW engine even when I lived in No Va in the dead of winter, but if it has worked for you.....good luck 
[QUOTE="dasMafia"]if you are doing changes every 4K... don't pay for synthetic IMO... just drop the interval to 3K and use Castrol GTX in 5w-30...
unless you have some exotic motor, or have HUGE heat issues, I can't comprehend the benefits of 15-50 or 20-50....[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="dasMafia"]if you are doing changes every 4K... don't pay for synthetic IMO... just drop the interval to 3K and use Castrol GTX in 5w-30...
unless you have some exotic motor, or have HUGE heat issues, I can't comprehend the benefits of 15-50 or 20-50....[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="dasMafia"]if you are doing changes every 4K... don't pay for synthetic IMO... just drop the interval to 3K and use Castrol GTX in 5w-30...
unless you have some exotic motor, or have HUGE heat issues, I can't comprehend the benefits of 15-50 or 20-50....[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="Steve Haygood"]You might want to read the owner's manual....or maybe all 80's BMW engines are exotic, because almost all of us fall into the temp range of 20w50. I have never put 5w30 in a BMW engine even when I lived in No Va in the dead of winter, but if it has worked for you.....good luck[/QUOTE]
to quote any number of engineers i know "the realistic temperature ranges these cars face do not in any way exceed the capabilities of todays 'standard weight' fossil engine oils" oil was not nearly as sophisticated 20+ years ago... I cannot count the number of BMW mechanics and techs that have told me that as well... if the car is in good condition, and the radiator is less than 3 years old, a 5-30 or 10-30 diet should be just fine. and there's no chance I'm running 15 or 20-weight on that starter when its -10 or -20.... it pitched a fit at -0- with 10-30.... (maybe I need a new battery???) if I tracked the crap out of it, had a commute more than 3 miles long, or actually used the AC, i can see using 15-50 in the summer... but i don't do any of those. I'm a big believer in "what works" and 5-30 is tickling my fancy right now with ZERO blow-by, no consumption, great engine temps, easy starts, quiet operation, and I'm not seeing a rapid deterioration in the condition via discoloration... and it usually gets swapped at about 2000 miles, so i've got no qualms about long changes...
and as for protecting my "investment" dudes, I've got less than $600 in this motor.... a new one is $425, including shipping, its the only part I can actually afford to replace!!!! its the rest of the car i worry about....
if this motor blows up, well, i'll have to sleep on the couch for a while, but our couch is bloody comfy....
unless you have some exotic motor, or have HUGE heat issues, I can't comprehend the benefits of 15-50 or 20-50....[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="Steve Haygood"]You might want to read the owner's manual....or maybe all 80's BMW engines are exotic, because almost all of us fall into the temp range of 20w50. I have never put 5w30 in a BMW engine even when I lived in No Va in the dead of winter, but if it has worked for you.....good luck
[/QUOTE]to quote any number of engineers i know "the realistic temperature ranges these cars face do not in any way exceed the capabilities of todays 'standard weight' fossil engine oils" oil was not nearly as sophisticated 20+ years ago... I cannot count the number of BMW mechanics and techs that have told me that as well... if the car is in good condition, and the radiator is less than 3 years old, a 5-30 or 10-30 diet should be just fine. and there's no chance I'm running 15 or 20-weight on that starter when its -10 or -20.... it pitched a fit at -0- with 10-30.... (maybe I need a new battery???) if I tracked the crap out of it, had a commute more than 3 miles long, or actually used the AC, i can see using 15-50 in the summer... but i don't do any of those. I'm a big believer in "what works" and 5-30 is tickling my fancy right now with ZERO blow-by, no consumption, great engine temps, easy starts, quiet operation, and I'm not seeing a rapid deterioration in the condition via discoloration... and it usually gets swapped at about 2000 miles, so i've got no qualms about long changes...
and as for protecting my "investment" dudes, I've got less than $600 in this motor.... a new one is $425, including shipping, its the only part I can actually afford to replace!!!! its the rest of the car i worry about....
if this motor blows up, well, i'll have to sleep on the couch for a while, but our couch is bloody comfy....
Well, When I bought my car, the guy said Mobil 1 had always been used in it, and I could tell, there are alot of simple leaks under the hood, valve cover gasket, etc. I put in Castrol when I changed the oil, my valve tick got quite a bit louder. I think I'm gonna switch to some kinda synthetic 15-50, to see if that quiets it at all.. Thats my biggest concern, am I hurting my engine by switching back to dyno oil, when it supposidly ran sooo good with synthetic?
-
Velocewest
- Posts: 1558
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: UK
-
RetiredDoc
- Posts: 1316
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Aiken SC
Does anyone here ever use www.google.com?
If you search for "bmw oil e28'" you'll get everything and more posted above.
Google will also search the roadfly.com and the mye28.com archives, and much more quickly than either of their own search functions.
There are years of posts about this oil topic.
If you search for "bmw oil e28'" you'll get everything and more posted above.
Google will also search the roadfly.com and the mye28.com archives, and much more quickly than either of their own search functions.
There are years of posts about this oil topic.
Here's what I've done... Mobil 1, 10000 mie change intervals with filters at 5000.
1988 Chevy K2500 from new; at 195K valve seals replaced, heads looked like new, engine still at factory comp. specs. Currently at 235K miles.
1987 Saab SPG; tweaked to 18 psi boost, auo crossed, generally thrashed, 245K on i's original turbo, good comp, head gasket changed at 170K miles.
1998 Jeep Wrangler; lots of off road play, lifted, 33" tires, currently at 115K miles, oil consumption at about 1 qt between 10000 changes.
1986 BMW 635 Twin Turbo; Turboed with 120K on it with no engine work, currently has 40K miles under 18-20 psi boost, idles at 18-20 in Hg.
I'll stik to Mobil 1 and the 10000 change intervals.
1988 Chevy K2500 from new; at 195K valve seals replaced, heads looked like new, engine still at factory comp. specs. Currently at 235K miles.
1987 Saab SPG; tweaked to 18 psi boost, auo crossed, generally thrashed, 245K on i's original turbo, good comp, head gasket changed at 170K miles.
1998 Jeep Wrangler; lots of off road play, lifted, 33" tires, currently at 115K miles, oil consumption at about 1 qt between 10000 changes.
1986 BMW 635 Twin Turbo; Turboed with 120K on it with no engine work, currently has 40K miles under 18-20 psi boost, idles at 18-20 in Hg.
I'll stik to Mobil 1 and the 10000 change intervals.
-
Threeshifter
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Viscosity grade:
The engineers who designed these engines probably knew what they were doing. The viscosity grades recommended are a product of bearing design, operating temperature, and loading conditions. I stick with the viscosity grades specified by BMW. 10w-40 for winter and 20w-50 for summer, heavier for extreme driving. I live in moderate Maryland.
Oils that you buy are 30-60% additives (I need to re-research this). These additives provide and/or contribute to detergent, anti-corrosion, and some flow properties. The additive package is really a large portion of what you are buying. Synthetic oils, I believe, were primarily developed for extreme applications for jet engines/aviation where the oil operating temperatures and bearing temperatures are very high. Essentially the hydrocarbon molecules are broken down and rebound (synthesized) to produce a more consistent frequency of molecule (but the same as in a mineral oil) with specific properties. These oils made it into the general-purpose automotive word thru some good marketing.
Side note:
I believe the synthetic oils were first developed by the Germans during WWII because the oil embargoes reduced the crude oil supply, but they had lots of coal.
Oils have become more sophisticated (mineral and syn) especially in their additive packages, which may be the same for both in some cases. Both are more stable and longer-lived that ever.
Change interval:
If you took a survey of the cars that have 300k+ on them I am sure that you would find that frequency of maintenance in the largest contributing factor yielding long life probably larger factor then driving style). I change my oil 3.5-4.1K. I use Castrol GTX mineral based oil, which I think is recommended by BMW and Bentley. While I am changing oil I also tend to observe other systems on the car, which leads to other preventative maintenance (this is probably the most important part of more frequent oil changes). The other thing that you are doing is flushing particulates out of the system and changing the oil filter.
Oil filters:
These hair-splitting discussions about synthetic vs. mineral oils generally leave out the filtration or mention it briefly. Whatever oil is used, it needs to be properly filtered to keep crap away from moving parts. I do not ever remember seeing a micron spec on a filter or an expected life. I also do not see much discussion on the subject of oil filtration. It is often recommended that people that drive on dirt roads change oil more frequently do address this issue as no oil will address this directly. I do know that when I change the oil I usually get most of whatever particles are in it, out of the engine.
The engineers who designed these engines probably knew what they were doing. The viscosity grades recommended are a product of bearing design, operating temperature, and loading conditions. I stick with the viscosity grades specified by BMW. 10w-40 for winter and 20w-50 for summer, heavier for extreme driving. I live in moderate Maryland.
Oils that you buy are 30-60% additives (I need to re-research this). These additives provide and/or contribute to detergent, anti-corrosion, and some flow properties. The additive package is really a large portion of what you are buying. Synthetic oils, I believe, were primarily developed for extreme applications for jet engines/aviation where the oil operating temperatures and bearing temperatures are very high. Essentially the hydrocarbon molecules are broken down and rebound (synthesized) to produce a more consistent frequency of molecule (but the same as in a mineral oil) with specific properties. These oils made it into the general-purpose automotive word thru some good marketing.
Side note:
I believe the synthetic oils were first developed by the Germans during WWII because the oil embargoes reduced the crude oil supply, but they had lots of coal.
Oils have become more sophisticated (mineral and syn) especially in their additive packages, which may be the same for both in some cases. Both are more stable and longer-lived that ever.
Change interval:
If you took a survey of the cars that have 300k+ on them I am sure that you would find that frequency of maintenance in the largest contributing factor yielding long life probably larger factor then driving style). I change my oil 3.5-4.1K. I use Castrol GTX mineral based oil, which I think is recommended by BMW and Bentley. While I am changing oil I also tend to observe other systems on the car, which leads to other preventative maintenance (this is probably the most important part of more frequent oil changes). The other thing that you are doing is flushing particulates out of the system and changing the oil filter.
Oil filters:
These hair-splitting discussions about synthetic vs. mineral oils generally leave out the filtration or mention it briefly. Whatever oil is used, it needs to be properly filtered to keep crap away from moving parts. I do not ever remember seeing a micron spec on a filter or an expected life. I also do not see much discussion on the subject of oil filtration. It is often recommended that people that drive on dirt roads change oil more frequently do address this issue as no oil will address this directly. I do know that when I change the oil I usually get most of whatever particles are in it, out of the engine.
-
spinedocab
- Posts: 2600
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Upper Bucks County, PA
Sweeney,
another SAAB guy on the board??? I had no idea. Most of the board somehow considers saabs to be "beneath" them. I too have a couple of high mileage, high boosted original turbos. One still in service, the other not.
The current iteration is my daily driver 1985 16 valver, boosted to 20 psi (Group 6 tuned box). She goes like stink. I just wish they could make a stronger gearbox .
Andrew.
another SAAB guy on the board??? I had no idea. Most of the board somehow considers saabs to be "beneath" them. I too have a couple of high mileage, high boosted original turbos. One still in service, the other not.
The current iteration is my daily driver 1985 16 valver, boosted to 20 psi (Group 6 tuned box). She goes like stink. I just wish they could make a stronger gearbox .
Andrew.
Ah yes oil filters. ~0
The OEM part is always a good choice. Of course Fram does make a microfilter, like a lot of others, but does it interrupt flow? Could it filter better and clean the impurities out of oil better? I am not an engineer, but I am sure that we have several on the board who could answer these thought provocating questions. Shawn?
The OEM part is always a good choice. Of course Fram does make a microfilter, like a lot of others, but does it interrupt flow? Could it filter better and clean the impurities out of oil better? I am not an engineer, but I am sure that we have several on the board who could answer these thought provocating questions. Shawn?