Head bolt question (pg. 3)

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

Ohk, so my head gasket took a crap on me, not two weeks after I finished putting the motor back in the car I figured this out after I could not get the cooling system to bleed properly at all. I bought a new head gasket and 14 new head bolts, but they did not come with washers (wtf?). My question is, would it be safe to use the old ones with the new bolts?

[turbodan]

How do you know the head gasket isn't sealing? Overpressurizing the cooling system? Coolant in the oil?

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

I have a fluid testing kit that draws in the vapors from the hot coolant in the expansion tank. It tests for carbon monoxide and Nox in the coolant by changing this certain type of fluid from blue to yellow, needless to say it failed petty much instantly. It does not overheat though, which is what puzzles me, also the oil is clean and free of coolant as well. Yes it over pressurized the system multiple times and destroyed the old expansion tank cap. Bought a new one and still the same problem, can not bleed the cooling system properly, have to let out air every 5-10 miles. It does not burn coolant though, I checked the plugs, they had normal deposits and they were not overly white in color. Also did a compression test, got 150 across the board. Any other thoughts before I tear apart my car again? I just hope the head is not cracked It has never been overheated either.

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

I also bled the system in accordance with the sticky on here, to no avail.

[turbodan]

If its overpressurizing the cooling system without overheating, thats a good indication. The head may be cracked, and if not it will certainly crack shortly if you drive the car with combustion gases displacing coolant in the water jacket.

You may have done an insufficiently thorough job cleaning the block and head. The sealing surfaces on the head or block may be damaged. You may have missed a head bolt during the torque sequence. Hard to say.

You can reuse the washers. Just replace the bolts. It would be a good time to take a close look at the head while its apart. You could replace it with a known good unit to cover your bases. Cracks can be hard to spot.

[pleasefixitup]

did you torque them down in stages?

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

I was not the one who rebuilt the head. It had been done by the PO in Caliphonia apparently, and I had purchased it from him, car had green coolant in the system as well. he is a member on this board if I remember correctly. I am going to take it off this weekend and have it sent to a machine shop in Waukegan that is known for good work, they rebuilt my stepfathers 454 Very well, so I will see what they say. Will keep you guys posted, thank you for the help guys!
Jon.

[Mike W.]

FWIW, it's perfectably acceptable to reuse headbolts on M30s. New ones don't hurt but are unnecessary.

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

FWIW, it's perfectably acceptable to reuse headbolts on M30s. New ones don't hurt but are unnecessary.

I already have 14 new bolts, so it will not be a problem. Another question though, I have the engine set at TDC (verified by the O/T marks on the damper and flywheel view port) once I unbolt the camshaft sprocket from the face of the cam, would it be beneficial to zip-tie the chain in the top three holes to the sprocket to prevent moving the cam timing for or aft a tooth? What about using some cut up coat hanger wire to hold the chain in it's upmost position? Also should I remove the tensioner spring for the chain before unbolting the sprocket? I really appreciate any input, and this forum has been an absolute info goldmine. Thank you!
Jon.

[Mike W.]

Another question though, I have the engine set at TDC (verified by the O/T marks on the damper and flywheel view port) once I unbolt the camshaft sprocket from the face of the cam, would it be beneficial to zip-tie the chain in the top three holes to the sprocket to prevent moving the cam timing for or aft a tooth? What about using some cut up coat hanger wire to hold the chain in it's upmost position?

You can but you don't really need to. You'll be working the cam back and forth some trying to get it to exactly line up when you are putting it back together.

Also should I remove the tensioner spring for the chain before unbolting the sprocket? I really appreciate any input, and this forum has been an absolute info goldmine. Thank you!
Jon.

Yes you should. And you would definitely need it out to reinstall.

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

Just pulled the head. Holy s&!@, Cylinder number 6 has 2 cracks in it, one over an 1" long, and another about ¼" long, both extending from the exhaust valve area. Cylinder #5 has the same ¼" crack extending from the exhaust valve area, I have not fully cleaned the head to see if any other cylinders are cracked, I am way to puzzled as to why it would run kind of ohk. Also when I pulled the upper timing cover, the water pump side timing chain guide was BROKEN IN TWO PIECES! Good thing I pulled it apart before it started punching holes in pistons.....oh well, I will see what the machine shop can do, if not, I am in the market for a good M30B34 head.

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

I have another question for y'all, I have ordered all of the timing components and seals, including main crankshaft seal, how do you go about getting this monster 36MM nut off the damper? I am going to douse it in plenty of PB blaster for a few days, and hopefully it will budge, How the hell do you keep the engine still? It is torqued down to like 330 ft-lbs, that is more than the entire engine makes!

[Xenocide]

Big
Impact

My 2135ti hardly had to think about it before the bolt came off.

Or you can use a huge cheater bar and lock the engine from rotating somehow. I wedged a deep well socket between a connecting rod and the side of the block to torque it back on. You can also buy/make a plate that bolts in place of the starter and engages the flywheel teeth.

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

Big
Impact

My 2135ti hardly had to think about it before the bolt came off.

Or you can use a huge cheater bar and lock the engine from rotating somehow. I wedged a deep well socket between a connecting rod and the side of the block to torque it back on. You can also buy/make a plate that bolts in place of the starter and engages the flywheel teeth.

Could that potentially smash or deform the bearing shell? I think I am just going to bite the bullet on this one and buy the special tool from BavAuto. Oh and no compressor, It was tolen last year because I was an idiot and left the garage door open, was not even gone for an hour . Looks like a massive breaker bar and good old fashioned muscle for this one. Oh, before I forget, once I get everything back togeher, should I set the timing after the first torque down stage? The compression of the gasket will make the camshaft move closer to the crankshaft, causing the timing to change correct?

[Xenocide]

I would imagine that torquing the head down only moves it a few thousandths (maybe a little more), but I doubt it'd move enough to throw the timing a tooth off. That said, I'd wait anyway. There's no good reason not to wait, and it'll definitely throw off the belt tension.

I did have my concerns about harming the bearing, and would not recommend you do it that way. I was up shit creek and made myself a paddle (this was before I got my impact). Just for fun, lets see how much force was put on that bearing. The torque spec is 330 ft-lbs, the crank has an 84 mm stroke, so 0.266 ft lever arm. That works out to be just shy of 100 lb of force acting on the bearing. I'd be surprised if it was harmed it at all, but I wouldn't do it that way again

[Mike W.]

The cracked head is odd, usually it's 2-5 that cracks, 1+6 being on the outside run just a little cooler and don't generally crack. Well, by the E28 era none of them generally crack, they're just not immune to it. But between the exhaust valve seat and the water jacket is the standard way they do crack.

Broken timing chain guide isn't all that unusual, they get crispy with age and usually aren't a problem if they break.

I would be more nervous about damaging the block by wedging something between the crank and the block than worrying about the bearings, but have never done it that way and wouldn't. Yes it's tight, but leverage is your friend. I'm not familiar with the Bavauto tool specifically, but I made one for the M52 in my wifes car and it's probably similar. Again, leverage is your friend, a long cheater. The chain will be fairly tight even without the tensioner in there, but I don't think the HG compresses enough to worry about or make it easier

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

The cracked head is odd, usually it's 2-5 that cracks, 1+6 being on the outside run just a little cooler and don't generally crack. Well, by the E28 era none of them generally crack, they're just not immune to it. But between the exhaust valve seat and the water jacket is the standard way they do crack.

I should take another look at it. There definitely seems to be a crack on #6 and #5 is definitely cracked.The top of piston #5 is blue with a mingling of carbon which is very white, unlike the others, which have an even coating of usual carbon. Usually blue-ness means high heat and the lack of carbon (which is white near the top of all the chunks) signifies a lean burn, if I am correct. Maybe I should replace the injectors while I have everything apart? Inputs? Thoughts?

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

Dropped of the head and upper timing cover to get milled flat and checked for cracks today. Guy said might be between $300-$500 dollars, is that a fair price? Never had the head on an M30 worked on before.

[demetk]

Not sure on the milling but last time I had it checked for cracks it cost me $40.

[Xenocide]

Sounds a little steep, I think I paid $70/head for the subaru to get em tanked, checked, and milled. They're smaller heads, but there were two of em.

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

Arrrrgggghhhh, hmmm, I will see the work they have done when I go to pick it up tomorrow. They said the cam and all valves had to be removed along with the seats to check for any cracks, which I approved to be repaired if there were any. So It is quite a bit of work. I was curious as to what other people have paid for this type of work.

[Xenocide]

Are they going to cut/lap your valves? That's probably reasonable for all that work, no disassembly was needed in my case and these heads are a bear compared to most modern engines with clamshell cams. I hear that volvo's six cylinder now has the cams' upper bearings on the bottom of the valve cover

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

Since I had 150psi across the board on my compression test prior to the head removal, I told them to leave the valves as is...I feel like dolt for not doing a leakdown though. While I had the head on the bench all the seats looked great as I rotated the cam around.

[demetk]

Does the head need to be disassembled to be decked? How do you get the valves closed otherwise?

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

I think it needs to be fully disassembled to check for cracks, which it must have because the head gasket I removed was fully intact, no breaks, cracks or signs of leakage or burn through on the fire rings.

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

So I received the tool for holding the crankshaft still whilst removing the damper central nut, Noticed right away it will not work because the handle needs two bends in it to reach down the surface of the damper over the drive belt V . Quick fix, just get longer bolts and a stack of washers on each bolt to keep it flatagainst the surface. Just an FYI for anyone thinking about ordering the tool, you will need to use spacers and washers (or nuts).
Another question, I received my new timing chain today as well, the master link has the one side with the two shafts coming out of it, and the other is a copper link with both holes tapered for a press fit. I have never seen this before, especially with such a soft metal such as copper. I was looking at the old chain that came out of the engine, there is no copper master link on the old chain, and no removable master link in the chain, all are press fit at the end of each shaft. I do not have a camera so I can not take any pictures, I need to know this so I can put my engine back together reliably.

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

Broke a ½"ratchet with a long ass handle trying to remove the central nut on the vibration damper had another fiend holding the brakes with the trans in 5th gear and the holding tool in place as well, even heated the shit out of the nut to.

[Cooperman]

So I received the tool for holding the crankshaft still whilst removing the damper central nut, Noticed right away it will not work because the handle needs two bends in it to reach down the surface of the damper over the drive belt V . Quick fix, just get longer bolts and a stack of washers on each bolt to keep it flatagainst the surface. Just an FYI for anyone thinking about ordering the tool, you will need to use spacers and washers (or nuts).
.

Take the pulley off the crank hub. I've done 5 of these now and the tool works great as is.

Last week I used a 650+ lb impact wrench to spin one off. That is the easiest way to get the hub nut off.

Or get a torque multiplier.

[VW+bimmer=bliss]

So I received the tool for holding the crankshaft still whilst removing the damper central nut, Noticed right away it will not work because the handle needs two bends in it to reach down the surface of the damper over the drive belt V . Quick fix, just get longer bolts and a stack of washers on each bolt to keep it flatagainst the surface. Just an FYI for anyone thinking about ordering the tool, you will need to use spacers and washers (or nuts).
.

Take the pulley off the crank hub. I've done 5 of these now and the tool works great as is.

Last week I used a 650+ lb impact wrench to spin one off. That is the easiest way to get the hub nut off

Or get a torque multiplier.

I did take the pulley off the hub, but there still is another belt v on the hub itself. I just used long bolts and 3 nuts on each bolt. Yeah i realized i should have just used an impact after succesfuly destroying 2 breaker bars and giving myself a conccussion after the second one broke and the pipe I was using to make it longer bashed me in the head and when I fell the back of my head hit my work bench. Ouch. I am taking it easy the next few days, my head has some sizable lumps on it n ow. My friend came over with his ½" impact and compressor and took it off for me, as it was difficult to even type this haha.

[demetk]

Sorry to hear. That really sucks.

The hub with the v-belt on it? Are you talking about the vibration dampener? Once you have the front pulley off then you can just pry the dampener off the hub. Here the dampener has been removed and I'm pulling the hub off the crank.