MyE28.com

So I have been building a 1987 635csi over the last 3 or so years and I finally had some POC success the other day so I thought it was time to share the whole story – or build thread. I have posted numerous quandary threads over the internets and while I am not going to try to link to them, I am sure I will litter this thread with those reference points in the hopes that someone won’t have to re-live a mistake I have already made.

Here is the build summed up… I took a great running car and disabled it for about 3 years and made it very complex and somewhat useless  I tend to have that effect on machinery at times.

So here is the “Build Sheet” I made to provide my tuner so he wasn’t totally guessing on items:
Phil Fortune – 1987 BMW 635CSI with euro M106 Turbo motor.
M106 (M30 Based motor with 8.0:1 CR) with Crank-up rebuild with maybe 3 miles on it. (bearings, crank polished and checked, block dipped and checked, Head rebuilt- All stock parts used and all commonly replaced parts were replaced)

Compression #’s are all between 140-150 with all cylinders below 5% leak down (as one 4.21.2014 on new motor)
745i Manifold
K27 modified with 35r wheel and total rebuild including hot side wheel 2.10.2014
FMIC
LC1 wideband
38mm Tial WG with 10lb big yellow spring and currently dumps to atmosphere
30lb injectors - BOSCH 0-280-150-934 (appear to be high impedance)
3in turbo back with magnaflow muffler- no-cat
Hks BOV
KnockSense (standalone)
External temp and boost gauge
BPR7ES – gapped at .030 (additional in car as fuel load is fouling-Will have new set in)
MS2 with GoatHumper adapter board, 174 motronic harness swap, 6 pin TPS,E34 coilpack
Idle Control valve on car- not used, cracked throttle plate

No accessories hooked up currently to MS as additional power needs to be supplied to daughterboard and accessories re-configured. (Symtech setup ICV PWM was setup for MS1 chip and Boost Control – both currently not functional)

MS Sensors- 2.5 bar MAP (MPX4250AP – K0833AH) GM IAT, , LC1 is being used for 02 input on MS, 6 pin BMW TPS, Bosch ICV- not used currently.
Random sensors in car- Dash Temp not working(external temp gauge to drivers left) tach not working. Oil level not hooked up (oil pressure is) coolant level works.

So here are a few pics of the process and a few mistakes along the way!

Before I took it apart


Cleaned


Where it started to go bad!!!!














Plugs after about 2 minutes of run time


Lots of problems with this Turbo- the oil was the least of it….


35r upgrade


On way to dyno


On Dyno

So on 5/20/2014 out of shear frustration, I carted the car up to Balanced Performance just outside of Atlanta (referred by DIYAutoTune) and had Chris review all the base settings and spend a few minutes on the dyno making it somewhat drivable. The point here was to flesh out some of the issues that are tough to chase down by yourself while you’re behind the wheel. I wanted to verify some aspects of the motor as it was brand new, cooling system, oiling, turbo systems, exhaust, intake tracks, all the sensors – before sending the car for paint and putting the new suspension on…. I couldn’t spend another dollar on this thing until I knew the heart was going to be useable.


So the good news is we were able to get the settings in the ballpark and do a little tuning- again, not looking for power, but just making it somewhat drivable- I didn’t want to blow it up quite yet! It spent about 1.5 hours getting the settings and working through a little tutorial for future use and about an hour on the dyno. I was really worried about overheating and she got hot, but always cooled right down – as I hadn’t even really burped the system, just opened the breather port and blew in the reservoir to make sure the radiator was full.

The Temp gauge has really been a hindrance to getting this thing going (yes, I have the gauge via MS- but I done want to have my comp. open all the time and that isn’t a fix really) I had it rebuilt, tested all kinds of senders and finally was so weary of any information I was getting from the on-board gauge, I picked up cheapo digital gauge that came with a M14 sender on the Ebays and that took care of that! I will still need to figure out the dash gauge- along with the Tachometer- but that will take a little more research.

So that leaves me at what is left and the issues I found at the dyno… Issues I know about:
1) Exhaust leaks- I need cutting rings for the exhaust manifold (I think someone mentioned using stock m30 manifold gaskets with the M106 manifold as the cutting rings are uber expensive???) there is also a leak at my wastegate adapter I think- that will take some engineering again.

2) Intake leaks- I think there were a few little bypass leaks that I need to work on- like the ICV that is not being used. That hose was collapsing under vacuum at idle I noticed.

3) Boost control – This is one of the biggest issues and I have already ordered the solenoid and my MS was set up for boost control, so a quick jumper from JS9 to S12c and I should have it on the IAC2… I did just replace my WG spring and diaphragm so I really hope that is holding correctly. I will remove and inspect.

4) Upgraded Radiator –This was a suggestion by the tuner, but I am wondering if going to a waterless cooling system might do the trick instead???? Any insight here?

5) Upgraded intercooler- I have a 28”x7”x2.5” and it was hot, real hot…. So I need to do some calculations and see what I can fit in there. It was pretty hot in the dyno room as well.

6) Bigger injectors- looking or some 42lbs to replace my 30lbs… I knew this was coming and im not really sure how I ended up with the 30lbs in the first place!

7) Confirm Timing – we couldn’t get a clear shot at the timing mark but it appeared to be about 17deg out….. my timing tables are very conservative and this will be addressed after I get some of these items fixed.

8) Oil Cooler- the motor I bought didn’t come with one and truthfully, I plugged the holes on the oil filter and totally forgot about it until we were sitting on the dyno. This might help in overall cooling as well. Not sure if I will go stock of a universal kit- but I have to do something.

9) Oil filler cap- under acceleration it allows oil to seep pass, dripping down onto the manifold- convenient I know! I am hoping this is a cap issue and not an oil passage/ oil pooling issue.

10) Breather catch can – currently dumps into a Natural Light can- as you can’t hide money! And I need to get it back into the intake tract I think.

11) Intake to turbo- its cobbled together and needs some love thrown at it- and a welder.

12) Random Smoking…. So there is obviously some black smoke when you go full throttle- but there is some random blue smoke here and there… sometimes under start up, sometimes at idle- it was REALLY bad before I had Chris go through the settings. It would foul out the plugs in about 3 minutes of idle (MS thought it was at 7PSI at idle- so dumping fuel) …. Im not sure if this is a new motor thing, startup enrichment fuel burning off, valve guides or rings. Rings are new and the head APPEARED to be rebuilt when I got it, so the guide seals can’t be verified- so the head may be coming off anyway. I am just going to have to play with it I guess and rule things out.

13) Solder up some loose ends on my harness- the TPS was acting kind of wacky- dropping to -2% and moving around a little off throttle- I have an extra I can see if it is the TPS.

14) Verify cam and TDC is correct

So the plan is to fix the above and try again- this time on the dyno with purpose. I will be posting the graphs and the datalogging and welcome some critiquing. Remember though, we were very conservative on everything in an effort to make it run correctly- so I know the timing map will get a little more aggressive and we will be shooting for about 10lbs of boost.

Very Nice. I like the custom work you've done. I hope it works out for you.

Why do you have pressurization of crankcase? I don't know if that is a problem with all turbo setups but I don't seem to be experiencing that particular problem.

Well, I think "custom" might be the wrong term! Cobbled up might be better....
Parts started arriving so I am going to start looking at everything and that pressurization is interesting. I even played with the dipstick and listen to vent when I did the compression and leakdown and there wasn't really anything odd.

I had a realization in bed last night.... I bet AE is turned off - hence my throttle and tip in issues... Seemed to run better warmed up so I am betting AE and SE are disabled from the dyno.
I wish I had more time to throw at it.... Correct js9 to s12c jumper got soldered in and the boost solenoid showed up , so I'm going to go bang my head against that wall for a bit today!

9

9mil wrote:Well, I think "custom" might be the wrong term! Cobbled up might be better....
Parts started arriving so I am going to start looking at everything and that pressurization is interesting. I even played with the dipstick and listen to vent when I did the compression and leakdown and there wasn't really anything odd.

LOL, I use Frankenstein as a description for mine.

So where's you're crankcase venting, is it after or before the turbo?

It's not currently - just into a nati light can!

The Temp gauge has really been a hindrance to getting this thing going (yes, I have the gauge via MS- but I done want to have my comp. open all the time and that isn’t a fix really) I had it rebuilt, tested all kinds of senders and finally was so weary of any information I was getting from the on-board gauge, I picked up cheapo digital gauge that came with a M14 sender on the Ebays and that took care of that! I will still need to figure out the dash gauge- along with the Tachometer- but that will take a little more research.

Had a similar problem with my 85 535i, replaced the shot NiCd batteries on the SI board and everything is peachy now!

Oh I replaced those and had the entire thing rebuilt... I'm using the wrong sender or it's not wired correctly... I'm not worried about it- yet!

I have 99 problems and I fixed that one

You have more than 99 problems, you just are not aware of them yet.Turboing my E24 has proven to be a game of whack-a-mole as far as problems are concerned. I fix one thing and 3 even worse things come up. Fun though.

GI jonas wrote:You have more than 99 problems, you just are not aware of them yet.Turboing my E24 has proven to be a game of whack-a-mole as far as problems are concerned. I fix one thing and 3 even worse things come up. Fun though.

Ha! I'm over it for sure but close... I really just wanted the proof of concept done before I keep going. It'll get there, I just want to drive it occasionally- too many days without a win makes 9mil a sad boy :-)

Prolly a little too much info, but I thought I would post it to get some feedback (constructive and otherwise!)

I tried to play with it a little today and hooked up my boost solenoid… of course it didn’t work correctly and kept the MS online even when the key is off…. One leg of boost controller to 12v switched and the other to IAC2a per the MS1 Boost control instructions when I had it installed years ago… ill have to dig into that one.

The car gets kind of hot and actually pushed a little water today after a few 2nd gear pulls in the hood- nothing special… I am going to start investigating the tables and settings now that I have been able to take a look at everything – My VE table and Spark table look to be a pretty good ways off (on the conservative side) so I need to start playing with that.

I also took pics (yes- my tuning laptop is an XP machine with nothing else running on it so I couldn’t do screen shots and gave up and went oldschool with the pictures of a screen















Also have a datalog section in 2nd gear to the floor run at about 5psi-

I don't know how this sneaked passed me.. I'm usually good at reading all the new build threads, and the fact this is an m106 MS build is great news. I'm near completing my own m106 MS build so maybe we can bounce ideas off each other (see my signature for the link). Right now I'm trying to verify timing, the timing mark is a bitch to see on the m106. MS starts and idles the car geat, the auto tune is a great feature as well. I just sort of browsed through your thread, I'll come back and read it when I have time!

Good luck!

-Sean

Okay, read though it and looking at your settings the only things that jump out are the required fuel and the tooth #1 angle degrees BTDC.

Keep in mind that I haven't tuned my timing yet, but I'm running 88. That may jump up once I get it squared away, but I remember you saying you set it as conservative so I'm not concerned. Now, the the required fuel, I'm interested in how you got that number. Mine is 12.7 and I have 29lb injectors. What did you set your engine size and air fuel ratio to?

EDIT
Just set my timing, set at 91 and that equals about 17 degrees of advanced timing at idle.

On the Required fuel- we just used the tool- 3500cc, 6cyl with 30LB (315cc I think) injectors and set to 14.7

My timing was 17 deg of advance - as best we could tell and I remember he accounted for it - I really need to go back and look to tell the truth.... it was so far out of whack before that I have vowed to not touch it again!

I really would like to check timing again but everyone seems to be getting in that area, so if it looks like a duck.....

Not really sure about the angle- that doesn't make sense and im not so sure there wasn't a reason he did that, but it might have been a left over setting- im interested what the change would be

Be real sure about actual timing. I made a pointer and marked the balancer at tdc where I can see it. I see your using a predictor algorithm setting of 1st derivative. I found using that cause the timing light to scatter and I think it caused some of my 6 head gaskets in 6 months. I'm now using "last interval" and my timing is rock solid.
good luck
marc

That is good info- I am thinking my timing might have something to do with the heat and the uninspiring performance thus far.
I need to read about last interval about 4 times before I try it.... I made the mark on OT and think I got somewhat of a good reading. Going to have to check again now.

I set base timing to make sure and it was a few deg off- not that bad.

I have something going on that I am chasing and I hope it isn't a blown HG.... for what its worth, here is my first attempt with a log file too....

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?fi ... 7972626433

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?fi ... 4951070433

it starts and warms up like shit- and smokes. Throttle response sucks, it gets hot anytime you start to get into the boost.... it actually idles ok after its warm... I swapped out the TPS and no change- still moves around a bit at idle, so tps cabling might be getting some interference from the injector harness.

Symtech wont call me back and let me know what output they put my boost control on when they added it a while back and IAC2a runs 12v back up into the MS so it wont shut off- didn't hurt it as it had a flyback setup on it I was told...

Im going to be checking and verifying FPR next- making sure I am getting the FP I need when I need it.

:-(

I would recommend disconnecting the charge tubing somewhere and focus on your VE below boost. If your idle is hunting around then flatten the 3d map around idle so it holds. Then drive around and datalog, then use megalog viewer to analyze your msq and datalog, save and burn new ve to megatune,renaming the new msq. repeat until you've got it right, then start boosting with a super rich VE, datalog,analyze, save rename , burn.
good luck
marc

Good call- I'm not sure why I assume I have to run through the turbine just to get the off boost basics.
There are some other settings that I need to work through as well. And I can run wue wizard if I can at least get it to idle without surge.
I also noticed that on the newer version of TS and the most up to date MS version, I have lost accel enrichment wizard.... Or maybe it's only PNP- as I know Zeinetranmus has it on his version...sure would he handy.

Did you give up on this or did you ever get it running reliably?

tschultz wrote:Did you give up on this or did you ever get it running reliably?

Odd timing! After almost a year, it is coming back from the paint booth Saturday! So this will get bumped up very soon.... but you should see my other project! It will be the neath of me

He is about to trade me his E55 for a Stage 2 turbo kit, ZX6R and $6000 cash.

T_C_D wrote:He is about to trade me his E55 for a Stage 2 turbo kit, ZX6R and $6000 cash.

.... said no one ever!

LOL!

9mil wrote:

T_C_D wrote:He is about to trade me his E55 for a Stage 2 turbo kit, ZX6R and $6000 cash.

.... said no one ever!

LOL!

You need to pay for that paint job.

I was just thinking about that... luckily it wasn't too bad.. good try though!

Will need another pic heavy post soon!

Are you back to MS or still using RRFPR?

tschultz wrote:Will need another pic heavy post soon!

Are you back to MS or still using RRFPR?

Nothing right now! But it's set up for the rrfpr just to keep it going... I have an LS I'm trying to get into an Esprit too- so easy is better right now!