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So I am giving this one last go before I rip all this MS stuff out and use a stock harness, begi and Chip…. I have been messing with this for about 2 years and have barley had the car running. I was waiting to post this until the absolute dire end…. It’s the dire end.

So I think there is an issue in tooth angle and overall timing… and I think its me (or my mechanic that tried to reset it) the process for setting base timing never seems to work for me…. I am most likely doing something wrong. I have stared and read this stuff so much that it all runs together.

Trying to take breath and start again. All connections and grounds…. Etc.
Here is the tune I am betting on… and I am more concerned about the settings than the actual tune- I am not afraid to take it to the dyno to build a tune- I just want it to drive around the block!

I will load this tomorrow and see what happens and datalog as well… just thought I would run it by the M30 specific folks before hitting it again.


Breakdown:
MS2 v3 board with "GoatHumper" interface board for motronic 1.3 wiring harness (I do not have Tach yet with this setup- using MS dashboard)
60/2 wheel
IAT
3.5Liter Low Compression on a fresh rebuild
TB is roughly 3in in diameter
No idle control (cracked throttle plate)
BPR6 plugs at 7mm gap
255LPH Fuel Pump
42mm Tial Wastegate (currently has 10lb spring)
55LB Deka Low Impedance injectors
GT35r wheel in a stock BMW K24 housing
direct intake routing with small A/W intercooler inline (I have shortened this to make It the most direct route)
HKS SS BOV (Fake- using for POC)
Innovate LC-1 for gauge and EGO input
DIYAutotune boost solenoid kit
3in turbo back exhaust with muffler only


Messed_with2015-01-27_08.29.11.msq

Thank you all for any initial input and I apologize for being yet another statistic that got into MS AFTER they turboed the car- and never had it running right in the first place!

9

No need to apologize. My current 5 was my first turbo build. I installed the turbo, built MS & a harness then installed. There were a few small snags but I worked thru them.

A few questions & then some thoughts.
What does your wbo read when the car does run? Does MS match this? Have you attempted any data logging? If so, are you able to view the 'lost syncs'? Is there any other abnormal behavior when this occurs? Why no iacv? Have you calibrated your tps? What procedure did you use?

While I'm no expert I'll chime in on the party. Looking at your .msq it appears your tooth #1 timing is retarded 8 degrees. Cranking advance is 10 vs. 6. Also you have 'use prediction' turned on. Not sure what that does but you might turn that off unless there's a need for it.

For 55lbs injectors you should be at 577.5cc/min. Your current setting is a tad high.

Here is what I referenced but i'm sure you've seen it.

Some comments:

- Most M30 engines with the factory crank position sensor and hardware have a Tooth #1 Angle of something between 85*-89*. 97* seems unlikely unless you have a different setup.
- For the factory ignition coil: cranking dwell of 3ms at 10* advanced works well - assuming you have your base timing correct.
- I would leave "Use Prediction" ON. This is relevant for driving (accel/decel), but will not have an negative influence starting and idling the car.
- Turn off your Priming Pulse completely. At your current values you'll surely flood the engine while trying to figure out your base setting. Use the Cranking Pulse to start the engine and the AfterStart Enrichment and Taper to keep the engine running.
-Aim for a AFR of 13-13.5 to get you idling.

- Put in the correct Injector Deadtime if you have the data sheet. Or do a quick test. This isn't crucial for initial setup but quickly becomes relevant and often overlooked.
- Use the Idle Advance Settings. I fixed a few bugs with the Adaptive feature and suggest you try that. Without idle air control you'll be all over your Spark Advance Table1. For example, your throttle plate gap can put you at 24-30* and idle speeds over 1200-1800rpm. Or 20* at lower speeds. This isn't helping you. Such high Spark Advance at idle will be sensitive and quickly send you into an endless oscillation. Use Adaptive Idle Advance.

Is there a specific issue you are having or just general questions?

-Why no idle control? This is probably the biggest problem with getting any .msq file to run. Plumbing and wiring might be an issue. Won't you need the ICV for the stock harness anyway? If you can get a ICV on there, I highly suggest that. Then close the throttle plate to set your warm base idle. Then set up the PWM duty for the ICV. This is Part 1, which helps in setting up Cranking Duty and your enrichments.

Without datalogs or knowing other aspects of your setup this is what I can offer. The settings in that .msq look fine. Although, every setup is different. I'm sure you've heard that before. Also, "Garbage in, garbage out." A little more difficult than the factory harness, yet still true for MS. Things that might seem unnecessary initially may be something that you're overlooking.

This is great stuff guys- I am going to make some changes and datalog today as I completely understand, its hard to make changes to something you cant see run!

so I took off the ICV as it was just another issue with a glens garage board and all that... I know it wont be as rock solid, but as I mentioned, I just want it to drive around the block so I can check the drivability off the Proof of Concept list and move to the next issue. I guess I felt I had introduced WAY too many variables to the system and needed to dumb it down a bit.

Its the little settings that kill me and I will go through those... of course I am looking at a completely different interface with slight wording differences as that is a much older version- but I need to get some anchor points - agreed and I will do that.

Calibrating TPS has been a PIA, and I think I found that I need to do it with the engine on as the vacuum is trying to close the throttle plate, making it wonky and go negative.

My Innovate LC1 Is providing the EGO signal to the MS, I have the additional lead hooked up to the 02 lead.... so they read the same pretty much, there is some lag. I still have my factory 02 sensor in the exhaust if anyone thinks that will make any of this easier...

I have datalogged on this, but I am start fresh today, so I will post that in a bit and I was getting lost sync without the filters turned on.... again, using the stock harness and shielded VR sensor so I haven't really had that issue (that I know of- but I will take not today)

really appreciate the help and I will report back today with some findings!

9

So that was interesting… Funny thing- it starts and runs well for about 20-30 seconds after start up then becomes a little intolerant.

Biggest issue- throttle tip in. Touch the throttle and it wants to die- you will see this on both data logs. I was able to get it rolling and cooers the throttle to pic up and start to rev some. These are in 1st and 2nd gear and I went about ¾ mile down my street (hilly) and back.
1st data log is with EGO off and all the recommended changes.
2nd with EGO on – Wideband … wasn’t much a difference.
But – when it did rev finally, it ran okay. Boost control was off and I didn’t rev it past 3Kish.
I turned off primer pulse and it is def harder to cold start and it is ideling around 12.5-13.2 on the WB… I think that can be tuned with WUE and a little time.

Data Log 1
2015-01-27_23.37.58.msl

Data Log 2 (turned around and came back home- turned EGO on)
2015-01-27_23.41.20.msl

Current tune:
messed_with_rev2_on_2015-01-27_23.14.08.msq

What was the issue with GG board? This is quite a simple setup.

Nebraska_e28 wrote:What was the issue with GG board? This is quite a simple setup.

couldn't get one

- EGO doesn't show as active in either log.
- Are you using Baro Correction (intentionally)?
Look at Fuel: Baro Correction, TPS, and AFR on your datalog.
Baro correction is 109.4 at idle. Every time you press the throttle Baro Correction dips to 97.7. Shortly after your AFR goes extremely lean.
On datalog1 at 363.983s you can see a relatively good tip-in AFR because Baro Correction didn't take 12% fuel away. At 369.522s you can see a bad tip-in AFR because Baro Correction did take 12% fuel away. Turn that off for now.

Priming Pulse covers up incorrect Cranking Duty settings when you are doing initial setup. You'll be doing lots of key cycling playing with the MS so you don't want to be squirts 5-6ms of fuel each time you turn the key. It's perfectly fine to add it back in for quicker starts, once you've got your base settings down.

A negative TPS value won't harm anything. It may be some play in the TB or vacuum suction. Most likely it's the electronic interference from the fuel injector harness right below the TB. The signal itself looks good. I do see a problem with AE triggering at 406.244s on the first datalog.

Can you remind us what firmware you are using?

Hold up...Doesn't the goathumper board have the 3-wire idle control circuit built in? If not you could snag a 2-wire idle valve from a 533i/633csi.

It probably isn't related to your problem but I'm mostly curious. What harness are you using?

TPS calibration is done with the ignition key in the on position, engine not running.
Click the [get current] "closed throttle ADC count"
then click [get current] "full throttle ADC count" while the throttle is open %100.

So I turned of baro correction and could barely get the thing to start… and when I did, I couldn’t really get it to idle as everytime I touched the throttle, it wanted to die- like in the last datalogs. So I hit WUE Wizard and it snapped directly into shape and start idling a little high, but quite good AND the throttle worked… not sure what sorted all that out or is it is something that is warm-up dependent (like it runs like crap until 140* then it cleans up due to EGO picking up or something)
I am running 3.3.1
Priming pulse is killing the start up, but there is a deeper problem and I can take some time to play with that- now that its running!
I drove it around the hood, using the Analyze Live wizard, occasionally hitting burn/ save – so there may be some blips in the datalog. This felt really good- I didn’t do anything crazy, but I did let it run into the boost just to get some feedback on if it is doing what its supposed to. The WB spiked up to around 17 the first time and the second time it held at 13ish. I will play with that in time, I am sure.
But it looks like yall talked me off the ledge…. The car really did drive well and semi- normal and I have you to thank! THANK YOU… I will do some more datalogging and playing over the next day – I also think I am going to get a call telling me my rings are junk in my E55…. So this little win meant a lot!

2015-01-29_05.01.11.msl

messed_with_rev3_on_2015-01-29_05.12.33.msq


ICV on Goathumper: I dont think so on this version on the board-I have a 2 wire ICV- there are just so many variables and leaks that I took it out of the mix... I will add it back when I am a little more comfortable with where I am at with this thing!

I have calibrated the TPS numerous times- I hear the vacuum pushes it closed when it is cracked for idle, so it registers negative, I don't think it really screws anything up though.

Congrats!
Megasquirt has a steep starting/learning curve, but now it will be more fun. I couldn't get my car to start for 3 weeks when I first switched to ms.

Agreed- it was the win I needed for sure!

Thanks!

Datalog looks better. The Baro Correction was definitely your problem for this particular issue.

Cranking Duty, WUE, and ASE will take a few repetitions since your fueling in that area will change as you tune.

If your fuel pressure leaks down quickly you can give 0.5ms Prime Pulse to prime the line. You should be looking to increase the Cranking Duty for this situation.

I see some more things in the datalog. I'll let you work/learn with what you have so far.

*Remember IAT placement and its correction curve will quickly become an issue once you start driving/tuning. Don't let that fool you.

My FP does leak down somewhat quickly after shutdown- maybe a minute or 2 but I think I know what that is and it shouldn't affect after start.

I have the IAT sensor right infront of the throttle plate.... do you mean I need to pay close attention to the curve and make corrections? or watch what corrections MS or TS is making on my behalf and don't let them lead astray?

Thanks again- and now that it is running, I am a little more confident to have it tuned... I used Balanced performance just north of Atlanta and I cant decide if the car wasn't ready enough to be doing dyno pulls or the guy was being super conservative.... but I def feel better about doing some tuning on the street.

Thank you again!

Nicely done!

Save the dyno money and street tune it yourself. Once you get the jetting sorted then use the dyno to tune your spark advance for best torque.

Agreed- I just need some time and put some miles on it... Among other things..

I have to admit- I don't have a lot of confidence in my lc1 ... I don't have much to base that statement on but I guess I fear a 2 degree discrepancy at Boom....

I have calibrated it numerous times and swapped sensors just incase..just seems like a lot riding on its accuracy.
I have knocksense hooked up (LED, not to MS) but I need to adjust it so it actually works, there has been a lot of wondering for the past 2 years....

Anyone adjust knocksense successfully?

I use knocksense and love it. Mine is not connected to ms either. I mounted the red led in the A pillar gauge pods cover so that it blinds me when it knocks and I lift.
I tuned mine to knock that I could hear, then adjusted it a little more sensitive so that it lights on knock I don't hear a lot of the time. I like to datalog and analyze the datalog in megalog veiwer. I then make the changes I want to make, keeping my tune locked, instead of autotuning.
have fun,
marc

So I have been toying with MS2 again (now that I replaced the motor in my E55- good times, let me tell you!) and I worked on warm up and a little off boost tuning and the car drives pretty well. I can see on-boost coolant temps being a problem in the future and I haven’t been able to hook up my air/water intercooled yet.

Around 1129sec on the datalog below it appears to go lean on boost and I am not sure my solenoid DC tables are set up correctly and I believe I had them off at this pull. As I get into back to back runs and someone driving so I can make on the fly changes, I will be able to drill down a good bit, but as always- I look to those in the know for the basic once over as I keep moving forward and make this thing drivable!


DataLog: 2nd and 3rd gear pulls at 1129secs.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1agZu ... sp=sharing

Current Tune
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1agZu ... sp=sharing

this could help http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=57571