Why people think BMWs are unreliable and expensive

[Mike W.]

Neighbor bought a BMW not too long ago, an E39 525i. Not long after she was asking me if I worked on them. Duh, it ought to be obvious with 4 in the driveway or street. Said it had a blown head gasket, was I interested to which I replied absolutely not, it could get very involved. The car disappeared for a couple of months then she was back driving it again. For less than a month when it was towed in because it was overheating. After what I'm told was a $5K bill for the head (?) it had what turned out to be a very bad water pump. I mean the bearing was so bad the belt wouldn't say on. This one got fixed cheap, another neighbor does a ton of side work after his shift at the local tire store is over and took care of it for a relative pittance.

But still, are there any cars anymore that you can drive 'til they drop and not be expensive to fix? I've put so many miles on BMWs, and they've been pretty reliable and cheap to run. You can ride them hard and put them away wet, but don't overheat them or run them out of oil or water. And she's probably convinced they're fragile and expensive to maintain. Oh well, more for me when they break.

[Cactus]

You can get a salvaged m52 cheaper than 5k.

All cars are unreliable and expensive. That's the real reason priuses are so popular. The electrics do most of the braking and motivation, so the bits that do wear do so extremely slowly. Nobody except car guys replace any suspension parts in any car. I was just talking to a friend who sells lexuses about that last week. He said people come in all the time with worn out BMWs looking for a new car. I told him you can rebuild the suspension and make them drive like new again. We pretty much agreed nobody does that.

[Brian in TN]

Now that I'm working in the aftermarket world, I can clearly see the shit that cars are today. Not many calls for BMW parts but the big three mfgs are fucking junk. I gots the notes to back that ass up too.

LONG LIVE E28S!

[dsmith]

I think Fords are unreliable and expensive. I got that impression from 10000 of them coming through my shop and the fleet vehicles I've dealt with. Toyotas are a close second.

[Mike W.]

You can get a salvaged m52 cheaper than 5k.

M54 in the 525i which is more expensive than a M52, but still, I know that. Even installed, but apparently she did not, which is the crux of my post, people spending tons more money than they need to and or because of stupid neglect. She and her stepdad are so car unknowledgeable that overheating and the alternator light being on didn't trigger any suspicion about a belt being off.

[Nanajoth]

I could not afford to drive my E34 if I needed to have someone else do all the work. A couple people here at work own E60s and are constantly talking about how much they cost to fix.

[SlickDizzy]

I could not afford to drive my E34 if I needed to have someone else do all the work. A couple people here at work own E60s and are constantly talking about how much they cost to fix.

Pretty much this. BMWs have multi-link suspension with lots of ball joints and bushings, complex/relatively fragile cooling systems (E36 up anyway), lots of power/electronic doodads and plenty of other stuff many cars just don't have (I.e. brake pad wear sensors). Hell, E60s have electric water pumps! BMWs are reliable, but require frequent service in many areas, and even a cheap mechanic is billing for close to $100 an hour these days.

Compare that to a Corolla with McPherson front/beam axle rear suspension, an understressed low-compression engine, very few power options and so on. There is just plain less to break! The Corolla is designed to require minimal service and suffer little if that service is missed. It's basically an appliance, that's why there are so many out there with 150k that've never had anything but oil changes.

If someone goes from a Corolla to a BMW and expects a similar ownership experience, of course it is going to seem expensive and unreliable...

[byf_42]

Concur. I rather like not working on my wife's '08 Corolla. I rather dislike driving it, and despise having to ride in it. That car is indeed the epitome of "it is what it is". Perfect car for her, though.

[duggi]

Americans want cars that they can buy and put absolute minimal maintenance into: coolant, oil, wipers, brakes and tires. They balk at anything above and beyond that...

shocks? Hello no.
Brake fluid? What's that..?
Bushings? I don't understand the question and refuse to respond.

BMWs are designed with a planned-maintenence cycle in mind for the entire life of the car (I know I'm preaching to the choir) that, if followed, will keep the car reliable and engaging to drive for hundreds of thousands of miles. The problem is that maintaining a car costs money - and we as Americans don't like spending money on OLD things, so buy new, even if it ultimately costs us more.

Toyotas, on the other hand, are designed to be reliable with minimal maintenance up to about 300,000 miles, after which they simply give up. No American really keeps a car that long, so it's never a problem. It's really all perception and culture. When you have a culture that values "new" over "quality" you get these kinds of scenarios.

[86GT635]

It is so tempting as a consumer to buy replacement parts for newer cars on the cheap side. And I can't blame them. After working wholesale side and seeing the markup on some of the parts, it's outrageous. I'll have $700 control units with a unit cost of $224.84.

The problem is when cars are owned for a little while, those cheap parts that were installed are all leaking/ barely working when it's inspected. It's part of the "turn and burn" philosophy a lot of shops operate under.

My shop is different. We are independent so we offer the same 2 year warranty as the dealer. I scrounge prices with my sources to get the prices as low as possible, on quality parts. But, that's not 100% always the case- what I mean is sometimes I will go with a highly regarded name brand manufacturer to save money.

The parts BMW genuine are using/selling don't last 25 years like they used to, that's the truth.

I supply the best quality parts available, but with new cars- the parts are so complex; they weren't engineered to perform for as long as a consumer expects, leading to a bad reputation.

Good cars, excellent feel and value, require more, and higher expense maintenance than other brands.

[garageboy]

All manufacturers, to some degree, some more than others, are trying to make cars maintenance-proof appliances that you just use and then throw out and buy new. Looking under the hoods of new cars at auto shows is boring because you can't see anything anymore.

And I agree that the variance on the quality of parts, including the lacking quality of factory BMW parts nowadays, has made maintaining cars all the more difficult. Dealer parts are terribly expensive, especially for low-volume parts, and you don't necessarily find out they're crap until they fail. *sigh*

[BRRV]

I for one would not own a BMW unless I was able to maintain and repair one myself. The thought of a $5K repair bill gives me heart failure. I do have an appliance, a Honda: these things don't need anything up to 200K. Boring as sin, basic transportation (BMW Support Vehicle). I completely agree about parts quality, and the aftermarket, even the name brands, is bad and getting worse. I'm actually buying more parts from BMW than ever before and hope (pray!) that what I'm buying is as good a quality as I can get. I'm not optimistic.

[duggi]

I love the way BMW's drive, the way they look and the fact that they're the only manufacturer that seems to stick to their engineering principles (for the most part), so am willing to accept the cost of maintenance that comes with them. The goal is to just be successful enough (haha) to be able to continue to afford them as long as I'm driving. It's really a reflection on the "reward for hard work" mentality that most people don't have these days.

[Nesset]

I couldn't afford to drive my car if I had someone else do the work. Just so happens I enjoy doing so from time to time so that works out.

New cars are bloody murder for maintenance costs Anyway. I was looking at buying a Subaru Forester XT as a daily driver. The price for a shop to do a timing belt, water pump and tensioner according to Subaru forums and my local Subaru stealership in Seattle is well north of 1,000 dollars. I just did mine on my 86 eta for 70.

Not to mention, if you attempt to do work on newer cars it's much more percise and difficult. Everything has a torque specification. With an M10 or M20? Is the bolt tight? You're probably good. Other than the head studs and rod bearing caps that is.

BMW's have bad raps in my eyes, due to the fact they're european cars. Lots of people think Japanese and Domestic cars are the only vehicles on the road that are reliable and dependable vehicles. It's funny when I tell people my car has nearly 200,000 miles on it and they give me the look of "you're crazy for driving a German car with that many miles on it".

That being said, they think they're expensive because to have dealerships work on them. It is. And a lot of people will only take their new $45,000 luxury sport sedan to one. I can't say I blame them however.

[wkohler]

Every bolt on an E28 has a torque specification.

Best,
wkohler

[Cactus]

Every bolt on an E28 has a torque specification.

Best,
wkohler

Yeah, but PFT works on all but a handful of them.

[wkohler]

Every bolt on an E28 has a torque specification.

Best,
wkohler

Yeah, but PFT works on all but a handful of them.

Sure but that doesn't mean they don't have a spec.

[adrian in florida]

My last e60 was a whore to the warranty. I took that car to service dept about 10 times in a year. It was so service dependent I upped the warranty to 100,000 miles. I was t-boned by a lady at 78,000 miles and the insurer totaled the car. It was a nice 530 with a manny tranny and sport package. I replaced that car with a mb350 which I still have it is out of warranty but has proven to be more reliable in terms of less maintenance. In fact I must say that the MB six cylinder is a very good engine.
I bought my daughter Honda civic when she was in college. The block cracked but Honda replaced it with a brand new engine even though it was past the 5year warranty. Honda was aware of the block issue so they extended warranty to seven years.
I must say that some of the new bmws sure do look pretty but my experience with BMWNA regarding a paint issue has sullied my desire to give them money. I drive my hartge e28 about half the time. I figure I might as well because it's not getting any younger nor am I... I would not hesitate buying another late model MB. At the same time
all of the new cars have taken on this homogenius look. I suppose at the end of the day the corolla makes the most sense.

[Mike W.]

... I suppose at the end of the day the corolla makes the most sense.

Surely you jest. The last Corolla I drove reminded me of a 320i with better A/C but a worse A/T. A 35 year old car that was at the bottom of the line at the time isn't a very high target. It didn't matter if it broke or not because I wanted to break it. Tractors may be reliable but don't make very good cars. It was tractor like.

[adrian in florida]

... I suppose at the end of the day the corolla makes the most sense.

Surely you jest. The last Corolla I drove reminded me of a 320i with better A/C but a worse A/T. A 35 year old car that was at the bottom of the line at the time isn't a very high target. It didn't matter if it broke or not because I wanted to break it. Tractors may be reliable but don't make very good cars. It was tractor like.

I suppose it is with a wee bit of jest. Perhaps an upgrade to a Camry( he says with jest ) which is no longer cheap and reminds me of an e90 328. There must be a reasonable priced, low maintenance car with a fun factor. I guess it all depends on the definition reasonably priced. I bet a Mazda 3 isn't so bad .

[John project car]

Right now I have 4 fords , 3 GMC's, 3 Nissans , 2 BMW's ,1 Hyundai ... the Fords are crap . They are 7 year vehicles at best , everything wears out faster . Crap , can not over stress that . The Chevs are OK, 9 year car , the Nissan's are pretty good .Hyundai is better than you think, better than a GMC- good bang for the buck . Had a Toyota , they are great as are Honda's if you don't mind mind numbing boring to drive . Had two Chrysler's , they were decent for the buck, drove like hay-wagons , rattle from new ,abs was a joke , crude would be the best description but they were hard to kill

The BMW's are great but thoroughbreds . The suspension for example lasts as good as any but there is more to replace when it is time . I am long past driving crap , the old BMW is a good trade off, the new ones not sure . Leaning towards a Q ship for a daily driver as the Maxima is reaching the end .