MyE28.com

Hi everyone!

It's my first post here and I want to quickly introduce myself. I am in my early 30s and I live in Germany. In my experience, English speaking car forums are nicer and more open than German ones, so I decided to register here. I am currently driving an e36 316i compact as a daily driver and own a Porsche 944 Turbo as a weekend car with my dad. I have previously owned a BMW E31 840i, BMW 2002 and I sometimes work on my girlfriend's Mercedes 190E. I love vintage cars and recently started doing a lot more things myself in my tiny garage.

I have just bought an 1986 525e (As the 528e is called over here) with 155.000 miles on the clock. The car is white with blue cloth interior. I will post some pictures of the car here soon. I am planning on making this car into my new daily driver (hopefully as reliant as my E36). Car is in decent shape over all, but needs a bit of love and attention.

Frist job will most likely be a head gasket replacement. Getting a car with HG issues is always bit of a gamble I know, but the price of the car was pretty good and I can do the job myself so I am ready to take the gamble. The car has a slight touch of oil in the coolant. No milkiness in the oil yet. I haven't done any further testing yet, but I am thinking of just replacing the head gasket to be sure and before any overheating happens.

My first question would be: Would you do the same, or better confirm somehow first?
My second question would be: What else would you do, "once you are already in there". Of course the head would get resurfaced and I am thinking about getting valve stem seals done and valves/valve guides if necessary. The car hasn't driven many miles since the last timing belt job but it has been a few years so I will do timing belt + water pump. Any other preventative maintenance you guys would do at the same time?

Looking forward to your opinions!

I think the basics are what you are going to do. In addition, make sure to change all seals and gaskets, injector rubber, vacuum hoses and all things that look worn or about to break. These engines are very "delicate" with air leaks. I recommend (from my own experience) checking the height of the cylinder head to verify that it still has the tolerance to do a resurface and that it does not have cracks (possible cause of seeing some oil in the water), and the same verification of cracks in the engine block (my case unfortunately). It doesn't have much mileage (155K miles or kilometers???) but I would do a compression check before disassembling to see if you need to change rings or something else.

Aldo525 wrote: Apr 16, 2024 3:21 PM I think the basics are what you are going to do. In addition, make sure to change all seals and gaskets, injector rubber, vacuum hoses and all things that look worn or about to break. These engines are very "delicate" with air leaks. I recommend (from my own experience) checking the height of the cylinder head to verify that it still has the tolerance to do a resurface and that it does not have cracks (possible cause of seeing some oil in the water), and the same verification of cracks in the engine block (my case unfortunately). It doesn't have much mileage (155K miles or kilometers???) but I would do a compression check before disassembling to see if you need to change rings or something else.

its around 250k kilometres which is about 155k miles if my conversion is correct. Good idea, I will replace all vacuum hoses that look worn out. I had my fair share of experience with vacuum leaks and bad running 80s engines. I will ask my machine shop to measure the head and check for cracks. What's the best way to look for cracks in the block, any particular spots to check or products / techniques to use to find them?

Is there a good list somewhere with all the parts and seals that one should order when doing head gaskets on an M20? I checked the German "equivalent" of the Haynes manual but sadly there isn't any good information in it.

Here is what I have on the list so far:

Head gasket
Valve cover gasket
Valve stem seal set
Injector o-ring and filter set
Camshaft seal (Is there an o-ring and a seal?)
Waterpump
Timing belt

Anything else?

the wrote: Apr 17, 2024 4:15 AM its around 250k kilometres which is about 155k miles if my conversion is correct. Good idea, I will replace all vacuum hoses that look worn out. I had my fair share of experience with vacuum leaks and bad running 80s engines. I will ask my machine shop to measure the head and check for cracks. What's the best way to look for cracks in the block, any particular spots to check or products / techniques to use to find them?

Is there a good list somewhere with all the parts and seals that one should order when doing head gaskets on an M20? I checked the German "equivalent" of the Haynes manual but sadly there isn't any good information in it.

Here is what I have on the list so far:

Head gasket
Valve cover gasket
Valve stem seal set
Injector o-ring and filter set
Camshaft seal (Is there an o-ring and a seal?)
Waterpump
Timing belt

Anything else?

Are you familiar with RealOem???....with the car VIN you can find anything you need for your car and engine. Your engine is M20B27 so there is a full gaskets, seals, etc looking for this OE kit number: 11129059249. (Schmiedmann, Wallothnesch, FCP Euro (US)...). Maybe the injectors rubbers are not included but they are very easy to find: OE 13641730767
In the gasket kit mentioned before is not included some other gasket an shaft seals. Look this number at FCP Euro: 11141269557. They have another important kit of gasket, seals and also the timing belt, tensioner, etc....maybe it is more convenient to buy those kits instead of all separated.

To your list, add:
Timing belt adjusting pulley
Thermostat
Distributor cap and rotor (also the HT leads and spark plugs but they can be replaced anytime)
Check the rocker arms...they can have cracks too (my experience) the best moment to replace them is when the head is off.

Machine shop can check if the cylinder head is ok with no cracks....Engine block is not so easy but a good clean in the top can show small cracks where the cylinder head bolts goes. (picture is not mine but the cracks were the same pattern)...

Thanks again! I did not know RealOem yet! And the gasket set was exactly what I was looking for. My usual parts site only had individual things but this makes stuff much easier. Although the set seems to be sold out or quite a lot more expensive here in Germany compared to FCPEuro, strange world

the wrote: Apr 17, 2024 1:01 PM Thanks again! I did not know RealOem yet! And the gasket set was exactly what I was looking for. My usual parts site only had individual things but this makes stuff much easier. Although the set seems to be sold out or quite a lot more expensive here in Germany compared to FCPEuro, strange world

FCP Euro is a good place to shop and buy from US, also Pelican Parts, prices are similar and not expensive in my opinion. There are others but to my country they use DHL, Fedex, etc without any problem. To Germany should be easy too but no idea about taxes over there.

I will try to get stuff locally first, I think with import taxes and duties its another extra 20-30% usually

the wrote: Apr 17, 2024 1:01 PM Thanks again! I did not know RealOem yet! And the gasket set was exactly what I was looking for. My usual parts site only had individual things but this makes stuff much easier. Although the set seems to be sold out or quite a lot more expensive here in Germany compared to FCPEuro, strange world

I wonder if there's not more 70s-80s BMW left in the US than Germany? A good chunk of the country has mild enough winters not to use salt in the winter including California where a ton of them were sold back then. Plus I understand TUV inspection is quite strict and in many states the only inspection is for smog and some not even that.

Beware Reinz head gaskets. Just had to replace after install because they are so poorly made they don't seal oil journals. Go OEM if you can.

Mike W. wrote: Apr 17, 2024 8:16 PM

the wrote: Apr 17, 2024 1:01 PM Thanks again! I did not know RealOem yet! And the gasket set was exactly what I was looking for. My usual parts site only had individual things but this makes stuff much easier. Although the set seems to be sold out or quite a lot more expensive here in Germany compared to FCPEuro, strange world

I wonder if there's not more 70s-80s BMW left in the US than Germany? A good chunk of the country has mild enough winters not to use salt in the winter including California where a ton of them were sold back then. Plus I understand TUV inspection is quite strict and in many states the only inspection is for smog and some not even that.

You might be right. We sadly use a lot of salt over here and it's really hard to find non rusted out cars of that area. TÜV is another issue, especially with rust (and a lot of other thigns ) they are really strict and since labour is expensive as well, a lot of cars will have been written off once they became rusty...

I never looked at production numbers of the E28 and I wonder how many there have been, and how many went to the states. Comparing it to the W124 would be interesting as well, I know that their production time does not match exactly and some W124 are newer, but where I live I see an W124 on the street almost daily (different ones that is) and at least 2 or 3 parked around my house. A lot of them are still in daily use for people. Similar thing with the 190E.

vandiesel wrote: Apr 17, 2024 10:02 PM Beware Reinz head gaskets. Just had to replace after install because they are so poorly made they don't seal oil journals. Go OEM if you can.

thanks for letting me know. I never had problem with Reinz products so far but I will keep it in mind.

Picked up the car yesterday and I am quite happy. Far from perfect and a lot of work but nothing that seems like a huge problem (so far ). At least everything is original and not messed with. Rust wise it seems quite decent, I hope the thing that have been done, where done properly...

Head gasket is definitely gone, there is also coolant in the oil so that will be changed for sure. Let's hope the head and block are fine.

Small interesting detail, I picked up the car on the other end of the country and it was actually just a few minutes away from the Dingolfingen BMW plant, which is the biggest BMW plant in Europe and still the production site for 3,5 and 7 series today. I tried looking it up and it seems like the E28 was build there as well. Later on there was another production site for it it seems. Is it possible to find the production plant using the VIN of the car?

One more question concerning head gaskets. The one at FCP Euro has the BMW Part number 11129059249. I can find a lot of sets with the number 11129059240. Is there a difference? The latter one is listed as compatible with my car.

the wrote: Apr 20, 2024 4:40 PM One more question concerning head gaskets. The one at FCP Euro has the BMW Part number 11129059249. I can find a lot of sets with the number 11129059240. Is there a difference? The latter one is listed as compatible with my car.

Nice Alpinweiss e28!!...don't mention if the car is automatic or manual???....I understand all e28 was built in Dingolfing except e28 M5 and over 722.000 cars was built in that factory.

11129059249 is the right kit for eta engines (M20B27 525e or 528e) built until 12/86
11129059240 is the right kit for "i" engines (M20B25 325i), engine not mounted in e28 (just in e30 325i and e34 525i) and "eta" from 12/86.

If your car is Baujahr 86 so the kit is xxx249. You can confirm this with the last 7 digits of your VIN

But in both kits and engines type, the cylinder head gasket is the same: 11121722737. The difference are in the others rubbers and gaskets included in those kits.

Interesting. Thanks for the info. It’s strange because multiple parts sites list it as compatible with my car. The problem is that the 49 version is sold out everywhere right now. I can only get one made by Ajusa and I am not sure about their quality…

Car is a manual! A lot of 525e seem to be automatic even
Here in Germany. My car has almost no options so manual everything, which is the only downside.

I use Autodoc, a German supplier

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/cyl ... /229-525-e

I tend to use the Elring sets.

the wrote: Apr 21, 2024 4:27 AM Interesting. Thanks for the info. It’s strange because multiple parts sites list it as compatible with my car. The problem is that the 49 version is sold out everywhere right now. I can only get one made by Ajusa and I am not sure about their quality…

Car is a manual! A lot of 525e seem to be automatic even
Here in Germany. My car has almost no options so manual everything, which is the only downside.

I have a 518i without any "luxury" not even Power Steering.... ...is a very funny car to drive, feels so good to me drive this so "old", today's cars feels all the same no matter car brand.

Re the kits, I believe you can use a kit 240 instead of 249 without big issues but is not exactly the parts originally used in eta engines: I know the cylinder heads have different intake "holes"....eta is smaller than "i" engines, so the intake gasket from "i" engines can be used in "eta" but no sealing the intake hole "as original" (at least no air leaks). Another difference is the exhaust gasket: eta kit have individual gaskets (6) and "i" kit have two gasket (3 cylinder each) but this is not a problem.... like these are the "big" differences between the kits, not sure about all the rest but I presume there are another small things with no importance if you don't mind about 100% originality.

But there is one important thing I would do before buying the gasket kit: I suggest first dismantling and check the cylinder head about how much resurfacing needs....if "deep resurfacing" is needed, you will need a thicker head gasket: standard is 1,75 mm (11121722737), and thicker is 2,05 mm (+0,3) OE 11121722738.

Re the parts brand, to me Ajusa is metal spare parts like camshafts but no idea about gaskets (made in ???), Elring is very good as JohnH say (made in Germany)

Here is a picture about intake gaskets difference

JohnH wrote: Apr 21, 2024 5:56 AM I use Autodoc, a German supplier

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/cyl ... /229-525-e

I tend to use the Elring sets.

I use them too, but there everything seems sold out except ajusa branded one.

Aldo525 wrote: Apr 21, 2024 8:28 AM

the wrote: Apr 21, 2024 4:27 AM Interesting. Thanks for the info. It’s strange because multiple parts sites list it as compatible with my car. The problem is that the 49 version is sold out everywhere right now. I can only get one made by Ajusa and I am not sure about their quality…

Car is a manual! A lot of 525e seem to be automatic even
Here in Germany. My car has almost no options so manual everything, which is the only downside.

I have a 518i without any "luxury" not even Power Steering.... ...is a very funny car to drive, feels so good to me drive this so "old", today's cars feels all the same no matter car brand.

Re the kits, I believe you can use a kit 240 instead of 249 without big issues but is not exactly the parts originally used in eta engines: I know the cylinder heads have different intake "holes"....eta is smaller than "i" engines, so the intake gasket from "i" engines can be used in "eta" but no sealing the intake hole "as original" (at least no air leaks). Another difference is the exhaust gasket: eta kit have individual gaskets (6) and "i" kit have two gasket (3 cylinder each) but this is not a problem.... like these are the "big" differences between the kits, not sure about all the rest but I presume there are another small things with no importance if you don't mind about 100% originality.

But there is one important thing I would do before buying the gasket kit: I suggest first dismantling and check the cylinder head about how much resurfacing needs....if "deep resurfacing" is needed, you will need a thicker head gasket: standard is 1,75 mm (11121722737), and thicker is 2,05 mm (+0,3) OE 11121722738.

Re the parts brand, to me Ajusa is metal spare parts like camshafts but no idea about gaskets (made in ???), Elring is very good as JohnH say (made in Germany)

Here is a picture about intake gaskets difference

thanks for the further information.
I found one shop that says they can order the elring one. Let's see what happens. Worst case, I might have to order the thicker gasket individually.

Hi again everyone,

The head is off the car and I made some slightly concerning findings and I need some input on how to proceed. I think my block is cracked just as Ado525 said. Not as bad but there is a crack… I tried to capture it:



What do you think, did the oil enter the coolant thorough the crack or somewhere else? When I let the oil out it was full milkshake.
Crack = dead block? You think it’s worth it to try again to run it like that? Anything that can be done?

I am a bit bummed out. Not so much because of the money (blocks seem reasonably priced) but because of the time it will take to replace everything.

Further Images can be found in this gallery: https://imgur.com/a/u97MF1w

I spend a bit more time to investigate and look really close. I remove the guide pin (?) and cleaned the head bolt hole. The crack does not seem to be visible from inside the hole:



And I looks like the head gasket failed in the back next to the last cylinder. At least there is some corrosion and the remaining coolant in the hole shows the strongest emulsification. The coolant next to the small crack only a little oil in it.

These images show the last cylinder, the corresponding head and head gasket.



More images can be found here: https://imgur.com/a/12UvHkM

Hello,

In my opinion the block looks good....that "cracks" seems to be just shallow stripes so you have a healthy block, but check the cylinder head in a specialized shop to assure no internal cracks. Maybe the milkshake was only a bad head gasket.

In my case, I have the M30B25 block cracked (NLA not even a good used one I can find) but the engine is working well, no oil in water or water in oil. The secret that was a miracle for me is the new nanotechnology that create this product: K&W Fiberlock. After almost 10.000 km I've had no issues, all the block cracks was sealed and "welded"...