Early DC93 E28 M5 appearances

rcbmw · Post by **rcbmw** » Jan 16, 2006 3:35 PM

I regret that have been away from the E28 M5 forums for quite sometime. I have observed a considerable slowdown in posts by longtime members of the online M5 enthusiast group. As many of you know, I have been involved in the E28 M5 community since the model was released stateside but my primary interest has been in BMW M road car production history. Since I have been interested in the E28 M5, this month has been very interesting as the two earliest production examples I have ever seen have appeared on the web. Vins 2791005 and 2791007 are still respectable road going examples. I thought I would share this with the group to spark some much needed discussion.

Best,
RCBMW

M5 No. 2791005 is listed in the BMW M Registry while No. 2791007 is currently for sale on eBay.

[Edit by rcbmw on [TIME]1137986876[/TIME]]

bob knox · Post by **bob knox** » Jan 17, 2006 11:46 AM

On the other end of the spectrum I have chassis #2875369 (title still mixed up, but it's the real deal). Do you know if there really is a 2875370? If it does exists, there is no US registration record of it. I just like to think I have the last one. It's also on the other end of the spectrum for mods (metallic re-paint, suspension, wheels, brakes...), but man it's fun to drive

Bob K.

rcbmw · Post by **rcbmw** » Jan 17, 2006 12:51 PM

Hi Bob,

The final Vin for the DC93 E28 M5 is 2875370. When I first learned of your car, I was quite surprised that it is part of the enthusiast community and it is indeed a special car.

Best,
RCBMW

PS. I also strongly encourage you to add your car to the BMW M Registry (www.bmwmregistry.com) Your car is much too unique to not be included in the registry.

Steve Haygood · Post by **Steve Haygood** » Jan 18, 2006 12:35 AM

good to see ya here rc

RonP · Post by **RonP** » Jan 18, 2006 5:48 PM

good to see ya here rc

Yeeeaahhh, what he said! Glad to see you here and it is nice to know you are keeping track of these rare beasts. I try to let everyone with an M5 or other M cars to post their cars on the registry as well.

scottiesharpe · Post by **scottiesharpe** » Jan 18, 2006 6:07 PM

Winter is usually somewhat slow. All the M5's are sleeping.

eddie · Post by **eddie** » Jan 18, 2006 7:46 PM

How about 2791030?

I thought the M5 I just purchased might be an early production car since It does not even have the lighted rear view mirror.

I have to check the VIN on the M5 I just sold. I know it was much later.

Eddie

Rich Euro M5 · Post by **Rich Euro M5** » Jan 18, 2006 9:16 PM

Hey RC,

Are you tracking the Euro M5s floating around out there. I have mine listed in the M Registry (without pics) It's SN 01018034, build date 2/85, which is #34 of the 588 LHD Euro E28 M5s built from '85 till '87. I believe I've seen one other example listed that has an earlier build date, but the owner won't list the VIN so it makes it suspect in my book. If we discount this one, mine is the earliest documented example in the US.

As far as condition, I have some minor body repairs which need to be done. The car is presentable, but the flaws are there. Otherwise my M5 hasn't been molested too badly. A previous owner had cut a few holes in the bulkhead behind the rear set to install Woofers and the rear deck was cut for the installation of a set of Yamaha speakers.

The interior is Natural Buffalo and is in excellent condition, just a couple of scuffs in the leather, nothing serious or distracting. Because mine is a very early example it doesn't have the shift pattern on the shifter knob. Instead the insert on the shift knob is the ///M which is NLA. The shift pattern is illustrated via a small decal on the Cigar Tray lid.

Everything else is currently stock and unmolested. I will be upgrading the suspension with period correct parts and will keep the original suspension pieces. Obvioulsy I won't have the original 635csi style bottlecaps with TRX tires. I currently have ALPINA Open Lug wheels in the typical stagger with Bridgestone RE730 tires. The ALPINA wheels were sourced out of Germany and is a full set of 5.

Currently the engine is out of the car being rebuilt and is near completion. I should have it back by the end of the month. The engine is basically stock except for the pistons which are custom JE units. However the engine is fully balanced, blueprinted. The intake ports have received the full port and polish with a 5 angle cut of the valve seats. The exhaust ports received minor clean up wit the seats getting a 4 angle cut. All the ports have been flow matched and the combustion chambers CC'd. Rods have been fully reconditioned, lightened and weight matched to within .1 grams. The large and small rod ends have also been weight balanced to within .1 grams. The engine will be much better than what came out of the M-Technic shop when it was originally assembled. I'm hoping to see a decent improvement in the power output over stock. I would like to see in excess of 300 HP at the crank using the AFM once it's broken in.

I plan on being at 5er Fest in FT. Bend. Hope to see you there.

Rich in Houston aka "Euro M88"

P.S. I forgot to mention, the timing chain / sprokets have been upgraded to the later dual row S38 parts.

rcbmw · Post by **rcbmw** » Jan 18, 2006 9:19 PM

Hi Steve, Ron, Scottie and Rich,

It seems so long ago that M5 was released and groups like John Allen's MFormation and Stan Simm's M Register newsletter were the primary forums for M5/M6 discussion. Today those resources are almost entirely gone as are many of the owners who contributed to them. I am happy to see that there is still an active group of M5 owners and when possible I will try to contribute to these discussions as well help new owners as much as I can.

In regards to the example with Vin 2791030 it is an early production DC93 E28 M5. All DC93 E28 M5 models were delivered with lighted rear view mirrors and there is no correlation with its absence and production date. It is likely that the mirror was replaced. The Vin sequence began in 1986.11 with Vin 2791000 and continued sequentially to Vin 2792000 in 1987.10. The sequence is continued with Vin 2875000 in 1987.10 to Vin 2875370 at the close of DC93 M5 production in 1987.11. DC93 M5 production totals are: 1340 cars built. 1239 cars were delivered to the United States. 101 cars delivered to Canada.

Rich it sounds like your M5 is going to be a wonderful example when the remaining work is completed. Although I understand the inherent difficulty in continuing to use the metric 195mm x 390mm wheels, I believe they look splendid on early E28 M5 models. I hope to see photographs of your car soon.

Best,
RCBMW

[Edit by rcbmw on [TIME]1137638731[/TIME]]

eddie · Post by **eddie** » Jan 18, 2006 10:13 PM

Where is the power source for the mirror?

When we attempted to intall a lighted mirror, no power stock source was obvious.

Thanks

Eddie

ps: I've gone from one end of the production run to the beginning ... I just sold 2875190 (180 from the end of production) ... and bought 2791030 (30 from the start of production)

rcbmw · Post by **rcbmw** » Jan 18, 2006 11:33 PM

Hi Eddie,

The necessary wiring should be visible behind the Active Check Control panel. There is a great deal of information about the lighted rear view mirror available on the internet as it pertains to E30 3 series models that used the same part/ configuration. Also I encourage you to add your M5 to the BMW M Registry as cars 2791031 and 2791032 are currently registered. It is very interesting to see gaps like this being completed as more cars are added.

Best,
RCBMW

Rich Euro M5 · Post by **Rich Euro M5** » Jan 19, 2006 1:39 AM

Rich it sounds like your M5 is going to be a wonderful example when the remaining work is completed. Although I understand the inherent difficulty in continuing to use the metric 195mm x 390mm wheels, I believe they look splendid on early E28 M5 models. I hope to see photographs of your car soon.

RC,

Thanks for the compliment. My M5 will never be in the same league as Ron Perry's. Mine has damage history and lacks documentation. However the damage was repaired with BMW replacement panels, fender, engine hood and radiator support. Unfortuately the PO shut the trunklid with the trunk overloaded, you know the result, slightly bowed trunklid. It's hardly noticable, but it's bent. The right rear quarter also suffered some minor damage around the wheelwell area. Whomever did the repair didn't properly shape the flair. Again, it's not readily apparent but it's a flaw. Once these problem areas are properly repaired , my M5 will be a very nice example.

Currently the odometer shows 1078xx miles. When I acquired the car the speedo nor the odometer functioned. The Ni-Cds on the SI board had leaked, corroding traces on the instrument cluster carrier pcb (mother board). Once repaired, the speedo and odometer functioned normally. I have no idea if the speedo fault occurred while the car sat in disrepair before I acquired it, or if the PO had driven it with an inop speedo. So total mileage is unknown, however based on the overall condition of the balance of the car, the 1078xx number probably isn't far off.

There are a couple of interesting aspects about my M5. This particular M5 was not driven much,if at all, on German roads. It was built in 2.85, delivered to the dealership in 3.85 and subsequently arrived in the US port of entry in 5.85 . The car was released for use on US roads by the DOT/EPA in 11.85. I have a big hole in the history at this point. The PO has posted some history on another ///M interest website. Alledgedly this M5 had been in a collection somewhere in Lousiana for a period of about 10 years. During this 10 year period, the car was driven less than 200 miles. I believe this to be true. When I removed the head from the engine, I found significant pitting in the two rear cylinder walls. It was pitting caused by corrosion, or RUST !!! If the engne wasn't properly prepped for storage, it's conceivable this was the cause of the cylinder corrosion.

About the wheels. I do have the original spare. I'll probably acquire a nice set of the 635 Csi metrics and spring for new TRX tires for show purposes. However this will be one of the last things on my to do list. Coker Tires is real proud of the TRX , they're $$$$s.

Rich

Adam W in MN · Post by **Adam W in MN** » Jan 19, 2006 3:01 PM

This is a pretty fascinating thread, by the way. I love reading the detective work
of someone who is just as fanatical as I am.

Not that many people would have noticed, but the registry of E12 M535i's on
bmwmregistry.com has swelled by nearly 50% in the last two weeks. I've been
emailing and harassing people from e12.de (German E12 site) and some others
on my E12 M535i yahoo groups list to register their cars. I got a few that I
didn't think I would but there are several others that I know of that aren't on
there yet.

Regarding the early chassis numbers, I'm sure that everyone is sick of me
saying that my M535i is chassis #18 (4145018). I can say with a fair amount
of certainty that it is the oldest in the United States. But from seeing some
cars pop in and out of the public eye on ebay in Germany, e12.de, and other
sources I know that car #12, #13, and #7 are still out there. #7 is by far
the earliest I know of. I don't know the VIN of the one at BMW Mobile
Tradition though, even though I have pictures of the car (navy blue with //M
stripes).

Anyway, just wanted to say I'm enjoying this thread and I will certainly do my
best to pass on info about early or late production E28 M5's to this list (euro
or US-spec). If you come across any E12 M535i info, please send it my way
as I seem to have anointed myself as the cheerleader for our clique.
BTW, there is a euro E28 M5 here in Chicago ('85) that is a Dinan stroker
turbo. I hear it *might* come to 5er Fest, not sure yet. Probably the only
Dinan Turbo E28 M5 that I've ever heard of made from a euro car.

rcbmw · Post by **rcbmw** » Jan 19, 2006 5:39 PM

I also feel like I need to give credit where it is due; a thank you of sorts to owners like Ron, Adam, Rich and Ethan. You all have taken M cars that may have otherwise been completely forgotten and painstakingly restored them. In the process you have all continued to contribute to the community. I realize these cars have yet to be embraced by a wide audience of collectors but they are very special to those who know them well. As you all know there is a sense of occasion every time we are around an M5, and its that very special feeling that drives our passion. I am elated too see the results of all of your efforts and to know that at least four cars and the community are better because of it.

Best,
RCBMW

[Edit by rcbmw on [TIME]1137710394[/TIME]]

Rich Euro M5 · Post by **Rich Euro M5** » Jan 19, 2006 6:16 PM

To all that responded,

Thanks for the encouragement. Actually if it hadn't been for the great comraderie of the MyE28.com family, I might have lost interest in the M5 and sold the car.

Rich

eddie · Post by **eddie** » Jan 20, 2006 2:04 AM

Rich,

I can hardly wait for you to get your car back on the road.

Thanks for all the help over the years.

Eddie

e28blackbeauty · Post by **e28blackbeauty** » Jan 20, 2006 8:32 PM

When we acquired our e28 M5, i really didnt know to much about it. but from some research we "assume" the car was one of the last 100 built, I cant recall who i e-mailed asking about the date, but thats what we know.

VIN: WBSDC9305J2875016

The M needs work, but just to own a piece of BMW history like the e28 M5 , is enough to gimme a smile. We picked up the car just before the snow fell and the car really hasnt moved much since then, but once the warmer weather rolls around I think we will start the repair(s)...

rcbmw · Post by **rcbmw** » Jan 20, 2006 9:08 PM

Vin 2875016 is a 1987.10 build.

I hesitate to discern the production order of an M5 because I prefer to provide information in terms of absolutes. I should remind owners seeking such information that the vin/ chassis number corresponds to the finished painted body shell that was pressed at BMWs production center at Dingolfing. Assembly of the motorcar was completed at the finishing area in Garching by a small team of technicians. Because to the two part assembly process, it is difficult to determine an absolute production order.

Best,
RCBMW

sttully · Post by **sttully** » Jan 20, 2006 9:53 PM

My VIN is 2791440. Where does she fall in the production run? Thanks, george

Adam W in MN · Post by **Adam W in MN** » Jan 21, 2006 12:41 AM

Very interesting about the production order. I never thought of that
honestly. The E12 M535i's were also E12 shells pulled from the
assembly line and finished in Garching. I have always gone off of
the chart on e12.de listing chassis numbers and monthly productions
to figure out which cars were made during which months. I guess
it is theoretically possible that they came out in slightly random
orders.

What I would really kill to know about my car is why it was ordered
so stripped down. A customer special order or a car for the showroom
at the dealer? Perhaps the dealer ordered it stripped down since it was
so early in production, they wanted to play a wait and see game with the
"new" E12 M535i model? Mine was sent to the BMW dealer in Darmstadt
but I do not know anything because my contact with them was mostly
useless. They had no records going back that far.

mkarkos · Post by **mkarkos** » Jan 22, 2006 10:38 AM

Hello Everyone,

Fascinating thread especially since my car is one of those mentioned (vin2791005). I purchsed the car this summer after wrecking a beautiful Estoril BLue/Modena 1996 M3. I bought the car from the original owner who purchsed the car for cash ($46470) on March,11 1987 from Danvers BMW in Danvers, MA. I have the original window sticker but he did not provide me with much other documentation.

I can explain the radio question for you. The origianl radio was not working properly and the dealer could not get a replacement so they put in the newer unit and the owner added the changer.

The car is in very good shape overall. I had to replace the clutch and bushings along with L/F wheel hub and the Cat. The car presently has 182K miles and I can't wait for spring to replace the tires which are currently Dunlop SP5000s, which are fairly worn and seem to need balancing. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I love the car and do use it as a daily driver (I work from home, so that's not much). My future plans are to have some dings and scratches removed and the passenger seat neads some reapair (almost looks like it was burned). I'll post some pic's soon.

Mike Karkos

rcbmw · Post by **rcbmw** » Jan 22, 2006 2:24 PM

Hi Mike,

I am very interested in your car for several reasons. As you have indicated, the radio installed in your M5 is the BMW Model No. KE-83ZBM that is CD changer compatible. It is not period correct for the E28 5 seres but it is a very nice radio with its added feature set. It is similar to the non-CD changer compatible KE-81 ZBM-02 radio that was installed in some E28 M5s.

I also would like to ask if your car was sold as a used example to Danvers BMW and then sold to its first owner? Danvers BMW is no longer a BMW Center.

You will note that original window sticker lists the lower manufacturers suggested retail price for the model before the production numbers and msrp were increased. That controversy eventually sparked the $10 million dollar lawsuit filed by Lisa Stewart.

Best,
RCBMW

PS. If a scan of your original window sticker is available I would be interested to see it.

mkarkos · Post by **mkarkos** » Jan 22, 2006 6:05 PM

I have a copy of the original application for title and it states that it is a new vehicle with 90 miles. I have scanned in the window sticker and can E-Mail it to you if you pm me your address.

Wiseguy · Post by **Wiseguy** » Feb 06, 2006 12:09 AM

[QUOTE="rcbmw"]I regret that have been away from the E28 M5 forums for quite sometime. I have observed a considerable slowdown in posts by longtime members of the online M5 enthusiast group. As many of you know, I have been involved in the E28 M5 community since the model was released stateside but my primary interest has been in BMW M road car production history. Since I have been interested in the E28 M5, this month has been very interesting as the two earliest production examples I have ever seen have appeared on the web. Vins 2791005 and 2791007 are still respectable road going examples. I thought I would share this with the group to spark some much needed discussion.

Best,
RCBMW

M5 No. 2791005 is listed in the BMW M Registry while No. 2791007 is currently for sale on eBay.

[Edit by rcbmw on [TIME]1137986876[/TIME]][/QUOTE]

Ahh! I bought 2791007! In fact, I picked it up just this past Saturday night. It's a 4-owner car. Interestingly enough I am not sure if it's really US M5 #7.. it has a 1/87 build date.. aren't there 11/86 build date cars out there?

And I just looked on the registry.. #1005 belongs to someone that I know. It replaced his 1996 M3 that my company purchased for parts after it was totalled.

Small world indeed!

The history of my car, as best as I can tell, is as follows:

The car was sold new by a BMW dealer in Southampton, NY. I would imagine that it was leased because, per the carfax report, it hit the auction block not long after with relatively high miles (74k) in 1993 or so. I then have record that it sold in the DC area with just over 100k on it in 1995 for $13,700 to what as best as I can tell was the 3rd owner. The 4th owner bought it in 1998 with 134k per the ad and it has, as of today, just shy of 162k. It has a few dash cracks, needs some light eather repair and redye, but overall is very solid. There's no real rust to speak of and the car seems to have all of its' original paint. I have pretty complete service records from the time the 3rd owner obtained it.

It has no major needs and drove back from DC beautifully. It will get a light restoration but I plan on using it quite regularly.

I'll try to post some good pics of it this week!

rcbmw · Post by **rcbmw** » Feb 06, 2006 12:29 AM

Your E28 M5 with Vin 2791007 is correctly an 86.11 build. Can you please confirm if you are referring to the date indicated on the motorcars production label? It is not uncommon for early production BMWs to have discrepancies between the production label and the actual production date.

Best,
RCBMW

Wiseguy · Post by **Wiseguy** » Feb 06, 2006 1:13 AM

rc,

I got the date off of the sticker inside the door jamb. Unless you know of another place to look?

Mike,

Didn't even see your posts! Small world isnt it?

mkarkos · Post by **mkarkos** » Feb 06, 2006 12:49 PM

Is that you Bill?

I remeber you were saying that you were thinking of getting an M5. I am loving my M5 and have found a great mechanic for it. He is really into me keeping it all original. I do miss that M3, though.

Mike

Wiseguy · Post by **Wiseguy** » Feb 06, 2006 1:46 PM

[QUOTE="mkarkos"]Is that you Bill?

I remeber you were saying that you were thinking of getting an M5. I am loving my M5 and have found a great mechanic for it. He is really into me keeping it all original. I do miss that M3, though.

Mike[/QUOTE]

It is I indeed! The other Bill just bought a stunning 12k mile Lightweight M3. I am green with Envy!

I know you miss the M3, but don't feel bad, the car lives on. The engine is in a 328is that got moneyshifted, the trans kept a 95 M3 on the road, the diff went into an M3 with a blown diff, etc. So your car saved the lives of several M3s

There she is!

And with the LTW

ricky-b · Post by **ricky-b** » Mar 13, 2006 6:42 PM

I dont know if its of any use, but I just became the lucky owner of VIN 2791126 yesterday.
I'm just so damn happy I had to tell somebody!

Wiseguy · Post by **Wiseguy** » Mar 14, 2006 10:52 AM

ricky-b wrote:I dont know if its of any use, but I just became the lucky owner of VIN 2791126 yesterday.
I'm just so damn happy I had to tell somebody!

Congrats!

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/models.php?id=2

Please put it on the registry!

ricky-b · Post by **ricky-b** » Mar 23, 2006 11:44 PM

Please help, I may mighnt be an idiot.

I've tried twice to put my car on the ///M Registry and when I click submit query the next screen pops up " Data Base Error and "Syntax Error".

What gives?

Wiseguy · Post by **Wiseguy** » Mar 27, 2006 10:33 PM

Geez..

No idea, maybe a server issue on their end. I'd see if you can't e-mail the webmaster.

ricky-b · Post by **ricky-b** » Mar 27, 2006 11:26 PM

Got it!
I think the problem was with how I was entering my "Option/Modification" portion.

Linky.....

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/detail.php?id=3667

I'll add pictures after I replace the cracked headlights and beat up airdam.

Come'on UPS!!