MyE28.com

I might be in the market. I have a Motec M4, but I might be able to sell it and get a TEC3r for about the same $ but end up with a lot more features. The M4 has all the advanced features (data logging, wide-band, etc.) but they need to be enabled with a special password that you buy from Motec (total rip IMO) :@ .

Is Andrew the only guy running one right now?

i can give you the number of my tuner if you are interested. he runs a back woods shop but tunes some really high hp cars. i think you can expect to pay anywhere from $2500-$3000 for the unit, wideband, and all wires and sensors.

Thanks Andrew. Maybe Motec isn't so expensive after all?? I'll see what they want for the upgrade. I think is around $1k, but I'm not sure. I'm waiting to hear from them on that.

The Motec is a great unit for sure and I am pretty familiar with it and know some of the tuner community already, so it would be a big change for me but again it really comes down to the $. It does almost everything I want it to now except for direct fire ignition. I need another output channel to do it for a 6cyl. The firmware upgrade activates more channels to be able to do stuff like that. I'll let you know what they say.

Duke has TEC3 also. He can chime in, but the money stated is right.

RussC

The Tec 3r box, harness and DFU (coil packs unit) plus a wideband system like an Innovate LC-1 can be bought for under $2500 if you shop around. They don't charge extra for features, just hardware. And on an M30 if you use a B35 crank pulley/trigger wheel, that saves one big hassle.

I have put one system together on a ZZ502 Chevy, and I am putting one in an E28 now.

What's the ZZ502 in, Mr Daryl??

:~

I would love to see that thing upclose.. . and hear it too.....

It was on an airboat. It sounded very mean and kind of odd, it had an almost open exhaust, and a big-ass 4 blade carbon fiber prop driven through a gear reduction drive.

The boat and engine were determined to be too big and heavy for maximum fun, though.

The new one under construction has a much lighter all riveted hull, and a very mean GEN-III. It is being rigged now, I'll post some pics and an MPEG if I ever have time to go get a ride on it. It should be like going from a 760iL to a M3 CSL.

The Tec 3r box, harness and DFU (coil packs unit) plus a wideband system like an Innovate LC-1 can be bought for under $2500 if you shop around.

I was just poking around, you can get all that for $2349 right now. I didn't get my stuff from this guy, but his prices are very good.

http://www.siastuning.com/ProdforSaleTECSystems.htm

The Tec 3r box, harness and DFU (coil packs unit) plus a wideband system like an Innovate LC-1 can be bought for under $2500 if you shop around.

I was just poking around, you can get all that for $2349 right now. I didn't get my stuff from this guy, but his prices are very good.

http://www.siastuning.com/ProdforSaleTECSystems.htm

DMNaskale wrote:
I was just poking around, you can get all that for $2349 right now. I didn't get my stuff from this guy, but his prices are very good.

http://www.siastuning.com/ProdforSaleTECSystems.htm

Thanks!! His prices do look good! Hmmmmm. Decision time...... %)

I just had a tec 3 installed on my car(turbo e28 535is), what a pain in the ass, the instruction manual does not tell you much of what you really need to know. call brian macy 360 280 6112 he is now the resident expert in washington on installing tec3

Why would you pay $2500-$3000 for this when you can buy an assembled MS2 for $400? Surely you can buy a wire harness, buy a trigger wheel, buy coilpacks for less than $2000 additional dollars?

Does the TEC3 come already tuned or something? I mean, what makes it $2000 better than an MS2 ?

Does the TEC3 come already tuned or something? I mean, what makes it $2000 better than an MS2 ?

It may not be $2000 better than a Megasquirt II, but it isn't that much more expensive, either. The TEC-3r would probably come in around $1200 more, as a rough estimate, depending on how everything was put together. For that you get a fully developed system from a long established manufacturer with more features and flexibility. And it is probably an easier install on an E28. I own a TEC-3r, and I am very pro-megasquirt. I even have an early MS kit, but I never used it. I had bought it for my Bavaria but I found my E28 soon after and ended up selling the Bavaria. The MS was not a good upgrade to Motronic at the time.

I guess it comes down to what you need it to do, and how comfortable you are without manufacturer support. I plan to get a MSII and try to replace the TEC-3r with it in one of my cars, because I want to see how well it compares directly, and I will need the TEC-3r for the more complicated of my two 535s.

And the Electromotive Wintec3 software "tuning wizard" will get you up and running pretty well, and offers some good tools. But you could not call it already tuned.

What features does TEC3 have that MS2 doesn't ? What makes the TEC3r more flexible? I'd argue that it's hard to be more flexible than open-source software, but even if you're not willing to crank out code MS2 is pretty flexible.

I have a very limited imagination. I don't see anything that an MS2 doesn't/can't do that I'd want. Especially when you start talking about GPIO/Router boards (head over to msefi.com if you're not familiar with those developments..)

The TEC-3r has multiple injector and ignition drivers, higher resolution ignition timing and mapping capabilities, and more general purpose programmable inputs and outputs. It is everything the MSII might be if you maxed out the hardware with all the add on boards and the code to take advantage of it. But the MSII is not yet fully developed. Right now I am willing to pay extra to just have it all in one box ready to go.

I see the MSII as a very capable system as it is, and with great potential as it gets a wider user base and more development. I look forward to playing with one in the future, it is just that I have to draw a line somewhere in how much time and energy I can invest in a project, and sorting out the electronics behind the ECU is something I don't have time for.

[QUOTE="DMNaskale"]I was just poking around, you can get all that for $2349 right now. I didn't get my stuff from this guy, but his prices are very good.

http://www.siastuning.com/ProdforSaleTECSystems.htm [/QUOTE]

sias is a fuckin thief and an asshole! please dont do business with him. call my tuner if you are seriously interested in a tec3. he can hook you up and tune it for you if you want to make a trip to VA.



[Edit by gol10dr1 on [TIME]1138249714[/TIME]]

The TEC-3r has multiple injector and ignition drivers, higher resolution ignition timing and mapping capabilities, and more general purpose programmable inputs and outputs.

MS2 + Router board has 1us resolution. The goal is to read a 360tooth wheel at 10k rpm. 8 individual coils, 8 individual injectors (that's right - sequential injection will be possible).

But the MSII is not yet fully developed.

Well, it is and it isn't The MS2 board, proc, and code is done. It is running cars. But it is expandable (via the onboard CAN.. which will let you run router/gpio boards).. is an expandable hardware platform with open-source software every really "done" ?

Right now I am willing to pay extra to just have it all in one box ready to go

That, I can agree with

So do you plan on running the TEC3 with sequential injection and coil-on-plug ignition?

Matt, you are preaching to the choir. I have been loving on the whole megesquirt scene for years now.

I didn't disagree with anything you said, but right now the system does not match up to the TEC-3r. Not without more development of the router board add-on. When I bought my TEC the basic MSII wasn't even available. For some people the MSII might be all they want as it is, and I would be happy for them to give it a try. It is very impressive as it is. The router board add-on is still described as a work in progress, not everyone wants to be a pre-Beta tester for high end engine control functions. I greatly admire the guys who do, but I just don't have the time to do that on top of the project overload that daily life provides me. I am not the only guy in that boat.

A nice thing about the TEC-3r is that it will read the stock 60-2 B35 wheel as is, and it will directly control wasted spark or individual coil systems as is. The basic MSII can work with a wasted spark Ford ignition system and other common single coil systems. But there will be a complicated install of the Ford style trigger wheel and other ignition components to use the wasted spark feature.

The TEC-3r is more expensive, but it is a better system than the basic MSII. It may also be overkill for many people. The MSII is a viable system, and a bargain. But this thread is about the cost of a TEC-3r, and I think it is wrong to not present both systems fairly.

My plans are to use the TEC-3r to run a NA B35 in one of my cars with batch injection and wasted spark. That is the current project. My other car is a FI project and it will eventually get the TEC-3r, I have made no final decisions about the injection and ignition configuration. I will put a MSII in the NA car when I need the TEC-3r for the turbo car.

DMNaskale,
It would appear that the MSII willsupport 62-1 wheel, in the future. That seems to be the story of MS for awhile now, good, but not quite all there when you need it.

With that said, the Tec3 is great too. Im still on the fence with the whole thing.

RussC

Naskale,
MS already supports the 60-2 wheel. Peter Florence, an e12 guy who runs First Fives and is on the SSR list, is running MS with the 60-2 wheel to do ignition. My 3.0s has MS. When I put in my b34, I might go for the 60-2 wheel so I can do ignition too. If you go to 5er Fest you'll be able to see mine and Peter's cars.

[QUOTE="altus22"]If you go to 5er Fest you'll be able to see mine and Peter's cars.[/QUOTE]
Sorry to hijack the thread, but in case you were intending to register your 3.0s: only BMW E12 and E28 5-series cars will be permitted to participate in event functions.

[QUOTE="altus22"]Naskale,
MS already supports the 60-2 wheel. Peter Florence, an e12 guy who runs First Fives and is on the SSR list, is running MS with the 60-2 wheel to do ignition. My 3.0s has MS. When I put in my b34, I might go for the 60-2 wheel so I can do ignition too. If you go to 5er Fest you'll be able to see mine and Peter's cars.[/QUOTE]

Is that with MSII, or MSI. The MS site says not with MSII yet? Isn't the stock BMW flywheel a 60-2 already?

RussC

MS already supports the 60-2 wheel.

My point was that the TEC-3r is designed to work with a 60-2 ring specifically, and use it for high resolution multi coil triggering. A very nice feature for a BMW owner. It is not that simple or sophisticated with the basic MSII system. If you want to run multiple coils on MSII, then your best bet is to use a Ford EDIS system and figure out how to mount an oddball Ford 36-1 ring. Or you wait for the router board. I am not trying to bash the Megasquirt, and I don't want to get into a discussion breaking down all the technicalities of the system, I am familiar with it. And I really like it. But I want to present both systems in a realistic light. I am very aware of the fine work Peter Florence has done with his car, and I believe that guys like him are to be admired for being the pioneers of the DIY FI trend that has been developing over the past few years, and making it more accessable to the common Joe. Everyone must decide for themselves what they are comfortable with, technically and cost-wise.

My 3.0s has MS....If you go to 5er Fest you'll be able to see mine and Peter's cars.

I will be there and I look forward to that, I regret not getting a chance to run down Peter and check his car out in person last year, and a 3.0s running MS would be very interesting to me.

Well,
Ive looked at the MS site more indepth. Its clear that MS is gaining traction, but it is not as well a developed solution as a Tec3r, AEM or Motec. There are definatley some software issues and teething problems with MS, that seem to be better engineered with the more expensive systems. One of the issues I see is there isn't enough coordinated software/hardware development of MS from the community, whether thats the developers fault or not, its seems fragmented to me. I paid paticular attention to the forums at MS, and its clear that software is an issue(like any software dependant product). With all the revision extisting out there, its hard to keep track of whats what. Plus I feel that MS is trying to create far more compatability than they can handle. The system is trying to be too much to everyone, and theres not enough people to do that. Plus, with the way that MS is being deveopled and marketed, it will only appeal to "techies" ie a more hands on customer who is much more comfortable with more complicated technology aspect that the MS represents.

With that said, I like the MS solution for only one reason, price. Since Im one of those techies, I feel comfortable with that, and can handle anything it can throw at me technically. More on this later for my needs.

RussC

Shawn D: I know. It just means I can't autox or get my picture taken.

[QUOTE="russc"]Is that with MSII, or MSI. The MS site says not with MSII yet? Isn't the stock BMW flywheel a 60-2 already?

RussC[/QUOTE]

Peter is using MS1 on the version 3.0 board. I haven't done the research into it yet. I've got 2 months before I see my car again.

Shawn D: I know. It just means I can't autox or get my picture taken.

[QUOTE="russc"]Is that with MSII, or MSI. The MS site says not with MSII yet? Isn't the stock BMW flywheel a 60-2 already?

RussC[/QUOTE]

Peter is using MS1 on the version 3.0 board. I haven't done the research into it yet. I've got 2 months before I see my car again.

[QUOTE="altus22"]Shawn D: I know. It just means I can't autox or get my picture taken.

Peter is using MS1 on the version 3.0 board. I haven't done the research into it yet. I've got 2 months before I see my car again.[/QUOTE]

Ive had some emails with PeterF already. Im familiar with what he is doing. He is still trying to work out hardware issues with the ingnition portion of the MSnSnE. See, that part of the point Im making, after this much time, he still is fuddling with it. That what I see on the forums also.

RussC

[QUOTE="russc"]The system is trying to be too much to everyone, and theres not enough people to do that. Plus, with the way that MS is being deveopled and marketed, it will only appeal to "techies" ie a more hands on customer who is much more comfortable with more complicated technology aspect that the MS represents.

RussC[/QUOTE]

The MS is sold in kits, by a handfull of people, that one can put together, or buy completed kits. The biggest downside is, the software is not supported by the sellers, and created by a handfull of MS members. It would be a great system if those that sell the kits would also support, create, and develope the software. But it is depedent on the MS Forum and it's members. Getting answers is like asking a Model for her Phone Number.

The online manuals are outdated, the software is constantly changing, and finding questions to your MS would require a highly skilled "Car Techie" to understand how their software works. Can you properly fill in a Spark Map, a Fuel Map? And getting answers is like pulling teeth, and those that run the forum are a bit "Anal", protective of their own, and out of touch, or just are too overwhelmed by members asking questions.

Many have used and figured out how to use MS, but are you willing to spend many hours at their forum, asking questions? If so, be prepared to be blasted for not searching the forum. Most of the people that run that site, are short on patience's and have tuna for brains.

If you buy a MS, and ask the seller a question about the software, they send you to the Outdated Oline Manual, and they will tell you to search the fourm..LOL

Oh ya its cheap, and for a reason, the software to run it, is lacking support. If you like reading thousands of pages on the manual online, visit their site, the manual is many, many webpages long, you can read for months about it, and still have many questions. If you can remember that when you ask a question at their forum, you may never get an aswer. Then you would have to read all the post by its members about MS. The software support is just not there. Good luck.

Lonzo

Lonzo,

Are other standalone systems better w.r.t. support and getting questions answered? If I own a TEC 3 and I want help tuning it, who do i talk to? Is it free? For how long? Is it an email, a phone call, or something else?

IMO, the MS approach is nice because unless i am breaking new ground, any knowledge that has been developed for it has been recorded in the forums for posterity. I've had great luck with the questions i've asked -- probably beacuse I was trying something new (distributor control on an I5). Grippo configured a board he had laying around as an i5 engine and checked out the ignition driver output on his bench o-scope and told me the results ("should work") based simply on a questoin i had. I can't say i've been anything be pleased with the help, information, and experiences i've had so far.

We'll see if my tune changes once i get the thing installed on the car.

It's so funny how many of these posts get kinda off topic, but that one reason I love forums - you never really know where a thread might go next. Anyway, some interesting opinions here. I know a couple folks who run MS systems on their cars and in general what I see the consensus to be is that if your application is fairly straight forward(batch fire, single coil, etc.), then the MS is an easy, cost-effective solution. If it is a bit more difficult (sequential, semi-sequential, multi-coil, etc.) then you better have a solid techie on your team to sift through the sauce. Like Russc, I would not be afraid of any of the technical stuff on the MS system; hardware or software, but I guess most folks would not feel that way.

I've run the Motec M4 on another car I had and whenever a question came up, mainly about setup or a specific function of the control, Motec and/or my local Motec dealer was very helpful and supportive for free. Their documentation is VERY good too. I htink I'll stick with Motec until the next project comes along. I could adapt a jet engine control from work to manage the engine, but they are like $80k and about the size of a VCR.

What MS really needs is some of the user organization that has happened with other open-source projects like Apache and Linux. In the case of both of those developments, people volunteered to manage standards, versions and patch evaluation and distribution.

No, I'm not volunteering. I don't know my ass from HTML. :~