MyE28.com

megasquirt and megasquirt II?

I just did a random search on ebay and came up with This and it made me wonder what was the latest with those who have it set up. Also - has anyone yet to try MSII? Seems like a damn good price on eBay!!!

Yeah, now that you point that out, it does seem like a great price. Megasquirt looks like a great option to those who have turbocharged cars.

[QUOTE="FastFiver"]Yeah, now that you point that out, it does seem like a great price. Megasquirt looks like a great option to those who have turbocharged cars.[/QUOTE]

right now, as I understand it, MSII will not work for our E28s for full standalone. It should in the future, but not right now.

MSEnS(with V3 PCB) will work right now as a full standalone. But you'll need to wire in a M30b35 auto tranny TPS(the one with rheostat) and 60-2 crank trigger. All that will put you back ~$400-$500. Then you'll need to wire it all in and tune it. Not a trivial task.

Im working on a solution to use the reference/rpm sensors from the bell housing in place of the 60-2 wheel. This will simplifiy the install a tad so all you need is the new TPS. Another solution would be to use the TDC sensor on the flywheel and wire that into the proto section of the MS board. Its unclear to my right now if that will work.

Peter Florence(of First Fives site) is spearheading the biggest effort for M30 compatabilty/installs right now. But his progress has been a little slow to this point. So far there are no person on the MS forum site that has a complete M30 install as a full standalone besides Peter. TCD is running a fuel only MS to this point. I don't know of anyone else right now, but there may be more.

RussC



[Edit by russc on [TIME]1140076581[/TIME]]

Hmm... I see Mr. DIYAutoTune.com is using a picture without attribution...

http://www.diyautotune.com/company_profile.htm



I wonder where he got it?

http://www.peachtreebmwcca.org/PTGaller ... sp?ID=1397

That could be him though - it is the peachtree chapter and he does live in GA.

[QUOTE="Tjn182"]That could be him though - it is the peachtree chapter and he does live in GA.[/QUOTE]
Uhh, it ain't him. I'll give you one guess who the photographer is.

EDIT: Jerry and I just corresponded a bit -- he seems like a pretty cool guy. He'll be coming out to more Peachtree Chapter events this year, so I can bend his ear about his views/opinions on MegaSquirt.

[Edit by Shawn D. on [TIME]1140102751[/TIME]]

I should have MSII running NA on my car in the next few weeks (spark and fuel). I just sourced a 60-2 b35 wheel and crank sensor for that project. I'll keep you guys posted as things develop.


[Edit by Skeen on [TIME]1140107900[/TIME]]

For anyone looking at the auction on ebay, remember that you will need a lot more than just the ECU to complete your project (relay board, wire harnesses, sensors, etc.). You can't have MSII on your car for $410.

For the TPS, you can just grab one from a Hyundai or Kia in a junkyard. I suggest taking an ohmeter to the yard to make sure it's the type you need. That's what I'm running on my e12 throttle body.
Peter was working on a PIC chip to convert the flywheel signals to the EDIS signal so you can run MSnEDIS or MSnSE. Last time I talked to him he had gotten his flywheel signal emulator to work.
Couldn't you get the 60-2 wheel and sensor from a used parts source (i.e. Al Taylor, etc) so that you wouldn't be out the $400+ at the stealer?

[QUOTE="altus22"]Couldn't you get the 60-2 wheel and sensor from a used parts source (i.e. Al Taylor, etc) so that you wouldn't be out the $400+ at the stealer?[/QUOTE]

Yes.

[QUOTE="altus22"]Couldn't you get the 60-2 wheel and sensor from a used parts source (i.e. Al Taylor, etc) so that you wouldn't be out the $400+ at the stealer?[/QUOTE]
When he said he "sourced" it, I don't believe he meant he bought it from the dealer for over $400. He was saying he didn't believe you could build an entire system for less than that. Am I right, Mike?

That's correct. So far, I've paid about $475 (IIRC) for all the MSII stuff UNASSEMBLED. Add to that a cheap crank sensor and 60-2 from a board member (thanks Ely!) and some injector connectors and wiring that I'm yet to order. All said and done, I should be in the $550-600 range tops.


[Edit by Skeen on [TIME]1140109971[/TIME]]

You can use an OEM BMW throttle position sensor for the MSII and the TEC3. Get one off of a M30 powered E34 that has a auto tranny. The TPS has a variable output for the tranny computer. Check my webpage for wiring instructions.

JUST SAY NO TO RICE PARTS ON A BMW!

Russ, why do you say MS2 won't run full standalone on an M30? It can do direct coil control and use the existing mechanical dizzy, so long as it has something to tell it when to spark.

A spark trigger is really the only thing missing, and there are tons of options for that.

[QUOTE="Matt"]Russ, why do you say MS2 won't run full standalone on an M30? It can do direct coil control and use the existing mechanical dizzy, so long as it has something to tell it when to spark.

A spark trigger is really the only thing missing, and there are tons of options for that.[/QUOTE]

Ok, if that the case, I stand corrected. But I was under the impression that the MSII didn't work with the 60-2 wheel? if that the case that it will, then yes, it will run standalone.

See, this is one of the big issues with MS, knowing enough to understand what works and what doesn't. And Ive read way too many post in the forum on people stumped on how to get systems working on installs they thought should work, but seem not too. Especially the first start up, and not having the correct tune or setup to get the car started. Then theres issues Ive read with electrical build issues of soldering and component choice.

RussC


[Edit by russc on [TIME]1140160403[/TIME]]

All I want to say about MS is "you get what you pay for".

If Russ, being more competent that 95% of the board members with electronics, does not want to work thru the MS problems, you will have BIG issues with the system. It all comes down to, what is your time and your engine worth?

I know of only two people running a M30 with MS, Todd (TCD) and Peter Florance, neither has dynoed their car yet with the systems. Will be very interesting to see how the separate ignition and fuel controls will be separately adjusted for max HP. If the MSII is ever up and running, it may become easier.

My advice is to spend some money and get a proven stand alone system.



[Edit by Duke M535ti Backup on [TIME]1140164183[/TIME]]

I'm going to have to get off my duff this spring and finish my MS2 install on my Audi, so i can get all of you naysayers to STFU.

I bought the unassembled MS2 kit from DIYautotune.. and the stim board.. it was cake to put together.. took me perhaps 20 hrs.. and i am a poor solderer. The tests that i could do with the stim board and with the real-time gauge display suggest that i've got it put together "mostly right".

There are a lot of people that have done a lot of things with it. I don't see why peoeple get so worked up about this.. we're talking about completely customizable hardware and software to replace what used to be shitty mechanical controls (carbs and dizzy's). Of course there is some learning involved but the idea of building and installing an MS2 is a hell of a lot more plausible than machining and building your own carb. And when you're done with the MS2 you'll have a car that runs correctly at more than one temperature and pressure

Duke - if you get what you pay for, why are you driving 20 year old cars? Didn't you buy one of them for $500? Is that car only $500 good? Shouldn't you be driving a "better" Kia Spectra at 10x the price?

I too am a big fan of colloqualisms but there are guys using MS to make more power than you that have spent less money. Did you get what you paid for?

I'd like to ask that people that dont have direct experience with MS/MS2 KSTFU about what it does and doesn't do, or what it is or isn't good. Compared to the CIS-E3 KE-Jetronic on my Audi, it's going to be a huge improvement (assuming i get it working

Duke, I can be the third person you know of that runs MS on an M30.
Adjusting the fuel and spark seperately shouldn't be a problem at all. The spark and fuel can both essentially be "auto tuned" by logging the output of the O2 sensor and knock sensor. However, I have yet to hear of someone who runs fuel and spark to convert to both at the same time. Both Peter and I started with just fuel. I have yet to go to spark yet because I'd like to run wasted spark, but not EDIS and the router board hasn't been released for Coil on Plug.
When I do go spark, I don't think it'll be a problem to map the advance of my current distributor and use that as a baseline.
I also agree with Matt that it isn't all that hard to assemble a MS board. You just need to know how to solder and how to follow directions. Wiring the harness is just a matter of reading a wiring diagram. I'm probably simplifying it too much. Sorry, I can't help it, I'm a EE.

Oh Matt,
Well, your not going to get me to STFU anytime soon :p

So you say "mostly right". Mmm, that wont get your car woring properly. Do you know how to spot a cold solder joint that may not show itself right away? What about a failed IC or passive component? Most people cant, and thats most of the problems I see. Do most people who buy MS and have these issues be able to fix this stuff? Mmmmm....if not, now you may have to pay someone to do that, not so cheap anymore.

With that said, I will be going MS at some point, maybe by mid summer, as Im doing a M1.3 first to reduce my variables in my upcomming project. Then go MS when I have the system running. But, I can fix this stuff, I own a o-scope, DVM and other test equipment and have the knowledge of 20yrs of troubleshooting electronics.

I look forward to hearing more about your upcomming project.

RussC

Russ,
of course not. In my mind, the electronics aren't the hard part of it. I can pay $150 more and have somebody that knows wtf they're doing build it for me. The hard part is the system integration - building the wiring harness, choosing the right injectors, sensors, milling injector bungs into an intake, making sure the car's hall sensor is something that gives you a signal MS2 will read, etc etc.

The soldering work is uninteresting and i only decided to do my own soldering because i wanted to try to save a little dough and to try to become a better solderer.

As a software guy, i treat the board assembly as a solved problem - if i happened to do mine wrong, i know i can buy a known-good one for another $400. My investment in this will be in the ancillary bits that make it talk to the rest of the car, and my time in tuning it.

Tuning the software is also where the interesting side of this occurs, and that's where megasquirt beats everyone else no questions asks. There is NOT a more soft-tunable EFI setup anywhere. I've got the source code to the entire stack - i can make it arbitrarily good, it's just a matter of my time and talent.

I'm already dreaming up how i'll integrate my MS2 controller and a CarPC to get real-time data logging of TPS and RPM while i'm at the track.. if my car PC also has a GPS and a USB camera.. well now i can do a little directX programming and overlay my current GPS lat/lon, GPS speed, TPS value, and RPM values ontop of my in-car video.

That's a data logging setup you can't touch for under $1k that i'll have as a side effect of running a programmable, extensible EFI system and a car PC.

Of course, its all dreaming until i do it, but the road-to-success is clear. It's just time and money.. there are no technology or licensing roadblocks.

I'm also toying with running E85 on my MS2 audi eventually. MS will run whatever fuel you like - gas, LPG, alcohol, E85.. its just number twiddling. Turns out that E85 is basically government subsidized race gas.. .104 octane.. why wouldn't i want to make my car dual fuel if i can add a _ton_ of boost or spark advance to my E85 maps?

IMO all turbo guys doing real standalone should be investigating E85. Burns cooler, takes more fuel, higher octane.. perfect for boosted engines..

I must say I have now more faith in megasquirt than before!

I modded the board and helped install a MS1 in my friend's turbocharged Neon with a swapped srt-4 engine. Running with fuel and spark control! The first time we took a ride, I was amazed! So easy to tune! We had some problems at first but only because we didn't buy the right ignition modules! (@) It's pretty straight forward when you can read on similar setups from other MSers!

I assembled my own MS1 (for the e28) even though I have never soldered anything in my life before! Bought a cheap $20 solderer and I was good to go! It worked the first time also! Time consuming to assemble but for only $140, that's a bargain!

I cannot speak for the MS2 (yet), but for what the MS1 with MSnS-extra firmware can do, it's really worth trying if you're a bit of a DIYer!

Now, I need to MS that 535i! Need to figure out how to read the crank angle!?

Monotalonawd,
I should(hope) of have that info in few weeks, mabye a month.

RussC

I have msIl,controling injection & spark on an 81 m102 3.2L 745 turbo engine
I love it, super easy to tune with. I have the old style distributor, using the vr sensor for timing. I bought mine assembled, also bought harness kit,
gm sensors, & nissan pathfinder tps, installation was easy.
the hard part was all the reading I had to do, also I 'm not too computer literate so flashing firmware,& configuring the ini. files was a bit of a challenge.
bottom line if you've got a turbo, you want megasquirt imho
marc

RussC,

Still going with that flywheel teeth idea... ?

I tought about mounting the 60-2 crank pulley from a later BMW, but finding bimmer parts over here and not pay an arm and leg for them proves to be quite a challenge!! And I'm talking USED parts!

I'll keep an eye on you!

[QUOTE="Monotalonawd"]RussC,

Still going with that flywheel teeth idea... ?

I tought about mounting the 60-2 crank pulley from a later BMW, but finding bimmer parts over here and not pay an arm and leg for them proves to be quite a challenge!! And I'm talking USED parts!

I'll keep an eye on you![/QUOTE]

Ya, like I said, ~3 weeks if my project pans out like I think.

RussC