MyE28.com

Upgrading turbo and manifold..so this seemed the place as its all interconnected. See page 6.

Also adding link to MegaSquirt conversion, as there changes comming there also...
MS Conversion Thread

Well,
I let this out over at the tech forum since theres a gent there doing this right now also. But, Im on my way to a M30b35 engine swap in the next 10days. I believe the swap will happen late next week. Some kinda swap will happen in the next two weeks either way.

First, I was able to source a '89 635csi engine with 98k miles. Sweet. That simplifies things as as the b35 engine mount bosses are the same as the E28 block. Got the engine harness also. Will be using that and ripping out the b34 harness. As an upgrade, Ill be using the E28 flywheel and not the dual mass thats in the b35. This will be lightened, how much Im not sure yet. Per SilverBullet over in the tech forum, the b34 starter has to be used, and needs some grinding to fit to the b35 block. Well see if thats true. As matter of course, Ill be port matching the Dinan exhaust manifold to the head as I believe it'll be differenct enough to do so. Die grinder here I come. Will be retaing the b35 intake manidold and my throttle body, as its a 3mm bored out unit.

I will be removing the head and installing the MLS head gasket from Todd(thanks) and ARP studs that are on order.

I will be using the 179 ECU also. This should make for better idle but harder to tune. Will be retaining my FMU and use some software from TCD to start. That should get to 7-8psi out of the gate with minimal tuning. Ill be retaining my LM-1 and Apex-I AVC-R boost controller also. Its unclear if I install the 30lb or 42lb injs at this point. This will be a call I make in the next 2 weeks.

With this being a turbo swap also, the components to use is not so simple as a NA swap. I will have to use my AFM I believe, as its set up for the bigger injs. Not sure on the wiring fully at this point. Im pretty sure Ill use the main relay thats in the b35 harness. This will require a 8-10AWG wire run from the battery to the b35 harness input. That seems to be the easiest solution. Ill use the b34 fuel pump relay and just wire the control line from b35 harness to the FP relay at the fuse box. This simplifies the wiring alot.

Heres a quick rundown of new wiring for this.
New wiring for the speed sensor output as the 179 ECU needs it, the 059 doesn't use it.

The 179 has 2 A/C on inputs, not sure if both can just be tired together yet.

MIL(malfunction indicator light or CEL) needs to be wired in. This circuitry is in the dash pod already, so it just needs the output from the 179 run to it.

RPM and fuel consuption outputs are spliced in to run to OBC and dash pod.

O2 sensor relay is spiced in. Narrow band O2 ouput from the LM-1 will be wired to the existing b35 harness. The 179 never runs open loop, even at WOT. Its unclear whether I need a O2 clamp or not yet. If so, I can use the general purpose output from the boost controller to enable it.

I already have the E32 throttle sensor with reostat so thats there already. Although the 179 doesn't use the rheostat, its there for future install of MS.

The 179 has a "drive away signal". I believe this has to do with traction control. Not sure which way it gets tied to, that still to be figured out.

The last thing is mounting the diag port. That'll come when the harness is in. Nice thing about 179 is OBD-I. This gives real time data on everyting that comes into the ECU, so debug should be pretty easy.

Engine should arrive Tue or Wed. Swap starts as soon as it shows. Thinking 7-10 days to install. Oh my what project.

Observation, now that Ive been looking at the E34 indepth. The E34 is a major step up from the E28 in terms of sophistication as far as electronics go. Its easily 2-3x over the E28. The stuff added for climate/zone tempature control dwarf whats in the E28. There is a ECU for EVERYTHING in the E34. It is just big in every respect. Like I said before, a true modern car.

RussC

[Edit by russc on [TIME]1140645761[/TIME]]


[Edit by russc on [TIME]1140655495[/TIME]]

That's an exciting project! Which cars came with the rheostat TPS?

sounds like you should get some wrenchfest labor Russ....too bad I'm here in MA where it's exciting when it gets above 40 degrees...

[QUOTE="Skeen"]That's an exciting project! Which cars came with the rheostat TPS?[/QUOTE]

The M30b35 cars with autos trans. So E34, E32 and E24(E24 in '89 only). I believe that any E32 with auto had them, but don't quote my on that.

No wrenchfest here. The guys at Edge Motorworks in Dublin are being real nice. Im using their shop for everything. I paying them for the engine swap time so I can use the lift baby and Im doing everything else there at the shop. Nice deal.

RussC


[Edit by russc on [TIME]1140655446[/TIME]]

why will the E34 starter not work with an E28 flywheel? according to internet lore the B35 starter will go into a B34 no problemo


[Edit by chrism on [TIME]1140657271[/TIME]]

[QUOTE="chrism"]why will the E34 starter not work with an E28 flywheel? according to internet lore the B35 starter will go into a B34 no problemo

[Edit by chrism on [TIME]1140657271[/TIME]][/QUOTE]

Just relaying what silver bullet said here:
M30b35 swap thread

RussC

[QUOTE="chrism"]why will the E34 starter not work with an E28 flywheel? according to internet lore the B35 starter will go into a B34 no problemo [/QUOTE]
I asked the same thing here.

i still have my b34 engine on a stand with a b35 starter on it. i'll take a look tommorow and clear this up this potential misinformation.

Well,
The engine is being deliver'd right now. Will inspect it tomorrow, work should start in earnest Monday.

That means I should have the reference sensor info for the MS by mid to late next week.

RussC

My '89 e34 535 received a 15lb e28 flywheel a while back. The starter is happy with the earlier flywheel. Several e34 guys upgrade to the earlier, lighter flywheels from e28s.

Update, Engine pics. Its actually very clean.





The dumm.....um ill-informed guys at BMR chopped the E24 wiring harness as you can see. They ruined a perfectly good harness that someone could have used to do an engine swap :@

They are getting me another one this week. All the parts I need are on order. Should be here in the next couple of days.

While Eric and myself at Edge Motorworks survey'd the engine, it seems the head is newer than the rest of the engine. Maybe the head was replaced just prior to the accident????? Sweeeet

RussC

MMM mayb its just a 2.8 flywheel thing, i counted different amount of teeth between the two. I am currently looking at the wiring, tho i didnt list as much as wat u have, i didnt look into the wiring side too much before i got the motor, i was told that the fuse box plug was different but that was bout it. I also see the the positive and neg wires have to be extended, is there anything else u can think of that ill need to do apart from extend the loom goin into the cabin for the ecu, or where are u mounting urs?

[QUOTE="SilverBullet"]MMM mayb its just a 2.8 flywheel thing, i counted different amount of teeth between the two. I am currently looking at the wiring, tho i didnt list as much as wat u have, i didnt look into the wiring side too much before i got the motor, i was told that the fuse box plug was different but that was bout it. I also see the the positive and neg wires have to be extended, is there anything else u can think of that ill need to do apart from extend the loom goin into the cabin for the ecu, or where are u mounting urs?[/QUOTE]

Not sure about fuse box plug. Another gent that did this swap last yr said the b35 harness from the 535i was long enough to extend into the cabin and was able to mount the computer in the normal spot about the glove box? I have one sitting here, its unclear to me it that is the case. I may make a measurement in the near future. Im putting the ECU in the standard location as the E24 harness is longer than the others. But the BMR guys hack'd it :@

Dont have any other ideas.

RussC

Hows the conversion goin Russc, did u get new harness. I am also keen to see how ppl have adapted the plug to the fuse box, is there anyone out there that can post a pic or explain??

[QUOTE="SilverBullet"]Hows the conversion goin Russc, did u get new harness. I am also keen to see how ppl have adapted the plug to the fuse box, is there anyone out there that can post a pic or explain??[/QUOTE]

Umm,
What fuse box plug are you talking about? Is is the big 20pin male round plug? Please elaborate.

Im still waiting on the harness :@ I knew this would happen as soon as I saw the cut harness. There stringing me along because they don't have one, I pretty sure. Ive been scouring the internet looking for one myself, to no avail yet. Thats the last thing. As soon as I get one, the swap begins. No use pulling the car apart w/o one.

RussC

Russ,

No M30B35 engine harness will mate with the E28 fuse box without modifying the connection. I've got an E24 M30B35 engine wiring harness and late E24 fuse box, so I won't have that problem, but I will have to modify the body harness to install the later fuse box.

-Shawn

[QUOTE="Shawn D."]Russ,

No M30B35 engine harness will mate with the E28 fuse box without modifying the connection. I've got an E24 M30B35 engine wiring harness and late E24 fuse box, so I won't have that problem, but I will have to modify the body harness to install the later fuse box.

-Shawn[/QUOTE]

Ok,
I wasn't sure what were talking about. This is what Im planning on doing from my first post:

"With this being a turbo swap also, the components to use is not so simple as a NA swap. I will have to use my AFM I believe, as its set up for the bigger injs. Not sure on the wiring fully at this point. Im pretty sure Ill use the main relay thats in the b35 harness. This will require a 8-10AWG wire run from the battery to the b35 harness input. That seems to be the easiest solution. Ill use the b34 fuel pump relay and just wire the control line from b35 harness to the FP relay at the fuse box. This simplifies the wiring alot."

The B+ lug(always hot +12V) on the b35 harness is a ring connector(at least it is on the E34) that gets connected to the added large wire to the battery. The fuel pump is as I described also. Ill be trimming the large 20pin round conn, and useing some Molex cons(15pin) to adapt that to the dash signals rpm, car speed, fuel consuption, A/C on etc.

But once I get into it, I may change my mine...

RussC

I re-bump'd the old post from Big Bronze Rimm on his E34 engine swap into a E28 on the tech talk forum. He says that the E34 harness can reach with "careful routing". Can anyone verify this?

Im hosed on 6r harness. Can't find one anywhere. Callled all over. If anyone has a line on one, that would be appreciated. Or at least advise on the E34 if you can.

Thanks,
RussC

that myth about not being able to use the later intake support bracket has been dispelled by your pics also Russ.

Russ, i think i have an E34 one i can send to you for whatever the shipping is.

russc wrote:... once I get into it, I may change my mine...

Why? Is yours all played out like the Comstock Lode?

chrism wrote:Russ, i think i have an E34 one i can send to you for whatever the shipping is.

Sure, please send ASAP. Ill take what I can get.

Email me the cost.

RussC

Shawn D. wrote:

russc wrote:... once I get into it, I may change my mine...

Why? Is yours all played out like the Comstock Lode?

Oh, I just may change my mind on the wireing, not the project.

RussC

russc wrote:

Shawn D. wrote:

russc wrote:... once I get into it, I may change my mine...

Why? Is yours all played out like the Comstock Lode?

Oh, I just may change my mind on the wireing, not the project.

RussC

I guess you didn't get the reference. I was ribbing you for saying you might change your "mine."

Doh,
Cant see the trees for the forest. My my....

RussC

I have cone 2 E28 flywheels into E34's by knocking the ring gear off of the dual mass and shrinking it onto the E28 flywheel. They have a different number of teeth, even if they are close.

On the O2 clamp, I have learned that you cannot run rich for any length of time, like a couple of seconds, with a clamp.

I am useing a 6.2 meg Ohm resistor in the wire from O2 to DME. That lowers the voltage the DME sees enough that it doesn't trim in WOT and leaves the closed throttle trim alone as well.

Without that you will be chasing tune for ever. I know I have done so.

When you get it right it will rip,
Dave

OldgreenE34 wrote:I have cone 2 E28 flywheels...

WTF do you mean by "cone"?

OldgreenE34 wrote:I have cone 2 E28 flywheels into E34's by knocking the ring gear off of the dual mass and shrinking it onto the E28 flywheel. They have a different number of teeth, even if they are close.

On the O2 clamp, I have learned that you cannot run rich for any length of time, like a couple of seconds, with a clamp.

I am useing a 6.2 meg Ohm resistor in the wire from O2 to DME. That lowers the voltage the DME sees enough that it doesn't trim in WOT and leaves the closed throttle trim alone as well.

Without that you will be chasing tune for ever. I know I have done so.

When you get it right it will rip,
Dave

I think Oldgreen meant "done", not "cone".

Ya, I havent' looked myself, but I guess the E34 flywheel has different # of teeth, the E28 starter still works with it, and vise versa.

Oldgreen, why won't the O2 clamp work? Dinan designed a whole box just for the later cars to do jus that, O2 clamp. Um, I don't see why it wont work.

The O2 can ONLY measure 3 things, rich, lean and stoichiometric. Thats it. Im sure that the 179 DME doesn't measure how rich or lean the car is runing, only that its running lean or rich. Im pretty sure that even under WOT, it can only determine that its rich, but runs completely from map based fueling at that point, as it has no capability to measure how rich its runing at WOT. As long as the clamp is run at the proper rich level at WOT and acceleration enrichment, I would guess ~0.8V, the system should splendidly. My biggest concern is part throttle, as the system is still trying to hold stochio but the car is under boost in many situations. Thats a tougher nut to crack

Im not sure how adding the 6.2Mohm resistor in series would work. With that high of a resistance, does closed loop running work that well? Ill have to look at that idea a bit more! Thanks for that tip, but I don't understand it fully. Can you add some color to that operation electricly?

In the E28, the O2 input is filtered by a 2k low pass filter. It then drives a interrupt circuit to the 8051 CPU. Its a rich, nothing lean interrupt switch. Essentially when its rich, it triggers an interrupt, when lean, interrupt and nothing if the voltage is in-between. I don't have the 179 schematic, so I don't know how the input circuit is configured.

Thanks,
RussC

Hi Russ,

I did mean done not cone, typing on my lap!!

I believe the O2 circuit looks at voltage and at cycles or swings high to low and counts them per second or whatever time period.

So, I inserted an adjustable voltage source, and tried voltages from about 0.5 up to 0.9 adding about 0.05 per step and it never ever worked properly. (other than very briefly before going into O2 limp).

To back up a bit, I used a switch set at just over atmospheric to trigger a small 12v relay with 2 sets of N/O and N/C contacts.

I use one set to close the WOT switch.

The other set is to either introduce the fixed voltage in place of the O2 signal - first set up which put the DME in limp - or no power mode. Or to by bridging the N/C contacts with the 6.2meg resistor and running the O2 signal through the same contacts the following occurs.

When I start to enter boost the WOT switch is closed at the same time as the O2 signal now passes in series through the resistor. The current is very very low so all the resistor does is drop that say 0.99v signal to a 0.8v signal and the magic is that the signal still 'looks' like an O2 signal which is NOT steady.

As soon as I did this the car came to life beautifully spinning tires in third gear mid throttle, on cold winter mornings that is.

I first inserted a 1.2 meg stepping up about a meg at a time until it became smooth at 6.2.

And, the circuit is dead simple, just one relay, one switch ( I am using a switched output from my SMT-6 using a MAP input) and one simple 1/4 watt resistor.

Done right it works, otherwise you will be adapting all over the place and or be in some form of limp mode, it seems to me there are many.

Let me know how it goes.

Cheers,
Dave

Russ,

I would suggest that you:

1. Forget the small injectors, go straight to the 42's. I am at the top of the 42's at stock fuel pressure and am thinking of going bigger. The DME stops fuelling when you get to an input voltage of about 4.7, so that's all the injector time you get. If you go over that voltage you are back to some form of limp mode!

2. While you are port matching get rid of those lumps at the injector bosses in the intake. They make a real difference, when gone!

If you chose to use the e28 flywheel complete with it's ring gear Bruno and I can use the ring gear from the dual mass for a 5 speed swap we are doing on an E34 later this spring. They are pretty easy to get off and it just makes me feel better to have the gears that were designed for each other used.

Have fun,
Dave