MyE28.com

anyone done it? send pics please I dont want to do air/water

You don't want a good looking car then either.

Unless you have a M-Tech kit, no chance in hell of getting and efficient A/A intercooler in the front of the E28. Just look how small RussC's Dinan A/A intercooler is and it is IN the engine compartment.

You could just hang a big ass one under the bumper but you may as well have a Honda then.

LOL. I don't want to do water to air either... filling up a water tank all the time would bother me... Unless they are actually more efficient, then I guess I could cope. Or am I missing something, those don't use coolant do they?

Do you think a Euro 635CSi has more room behind the air dam than the E28s??

EuroShark wrote:LOL. I don't want to do water to air either... filling up a water tank all the time would bother me... Unless they are actually more efficient, then I guess I could cope. Or am I missing something, those don't use coolant do they?

Umm... I think you're confusing a water-to-air intercooler with water injection. They are not the same thing. You don't have to keep re-filling a tank for a water-to-air intercooler, as the coolant is not used up in operation (and that answers your second question -- yes, water-to-air intercoolers use coolant -- that's what function the water performs).

Ok, that does answer my question. For some reason I was totally under the impression that a W/A intercooler had a "finite supply" of water on which it functioned, like a water injection system.

So now for the big question, how does water to air stack up against air to air in cooling performance??

You CAN fit a front mount intercooler on your car..Up to 27"w/13"h/3"d...That should be good for about 5000-550hp..I hope that is EFFICIENT enough for you...

That sounds plenty adequate for me considering that I'm only looking for maybe 12psi (325hp at the crank?)... Thanks!

Thats what I was shooting around for. I think my 745I one gets enough air how I have it piped with a duct going to it through the IS spoiler. I really want one in the front too.

I installed an air-to-air intercooler on my e28. I'll post some pics when I have the opportunity.

The reason I went with a/a is because I already had the ic and because it was a lot cheaper for me than buying an air/water kit.

I had to mod the front valance a little bit but one thing is sure... there's a LOT of room on those cars for a big and efficient a/a intercooler! Don't know why some people think it doesn't?!

Duke M535ti wrote:You don't want a good looking car then either.

Unless you have a M-Tech kit, no chance in hell of getting and efficient A/A intercooler in the front of the E28. Just look how small RussC's Dinan A/A intercooler is and it is IN the engine compartment.

You could just hang a big ass one under the bumper but you may as well have a Honda then.

Duke,
Weve had this converstion before

I would not characterize the Dinan IC as "small". Its the same size IC that 3.2l ///M3 are using to make 375-425whp. Ill post the dimenssion later, I don't have them here in front of me.

Now, your correct in the "in engine compartment" is less than optimal, OK, it sucks and probably is costing me 1-2psi of boost loss and corresponding hp loss. The reason for it is that Dinan could use one IC for all the M30 kits in the E24, E28, E32 and E34.

Can you elaborate on the "Honda" comment. Im guessing you don't like the FMIC in the air dam look? Again, the ///M3 guys are making 400whp with them, and a few have made 600whp with a A/A FMIC.

In regards to the W/A vs A/A, there is no dispute the W/A is more effecient, and really shows its advantage on the dyno by being more resistant to heat soak longer. There only down side is capacity and complexity, but TCD proved with his large tank system it can take way more capacity than needed even at race track level performance.

There are some FMIC E28s that fit very large IC in the front system, especially if you have A/C delete. Even with A/C, I have seen one system with a very large FMIC that is very well integrated and too me, doesn't look "Honda'ish" as you may call it. I guess each to his preference.

Ive been scoping this unit out:


Will support loss of power and I believe can fit, but will need some testing.

RussC

The Green Hornet wrote:You CAN fit a front mount intercooler on your car..Up to 27"w/13"h/3"d...That should be good for about 5000-550hp..I hope that is EFFICIENT enough for you...

You conveniently left out the details about the sawzall and holesaw.

Todd

T_C_D wrote:

The Green Hornet wrote:You CAN fit a front mount intercooler on your car..Up to 27"w/13"h/3"d...That should be good for about 5000-550hp..I hope that is EFFICIENT enough for you...

You conveniently left out the details about the sawzall and holesaw.

Todd

Well, the twin turbo "fit" in Sweeney's e24, too. Modifications are irrelevant as long as it fits, right? Notched frame rails and hole saws don't enter the conversation, hehe.

Jeremy

I figure I am going to have to cut something. It will be tastefully done I am not going to ruin my beautiful wolf in sheep's clothing. I have too much money in this car to f it up now

thinking of moving the battery to the trunk like the M5 and runnig intercooler tubing up through the battery tray area any other suggestions?

cwl4m5 wrote:thinking of moving the battery to the trunk like the M5 and runnig intercooler tubing up through the battery tray area any other suggestions?

Thats as good a plan as any. I have more room on the passenger side as Dinan did some of the cutting already to fit the existing IC.

RussC

I've got a few pics of my air-to-air install. Tell me where to send them...

Jim

send them to aruc@spsu.edu

or if someone could host them online somewhere.... thanks.

also send them to e28powerm30@yahoo.com if you would please.

imagechack.us/ is free for hosting images. try using that

send to clane866@aol.com

Where dem pics at?
www.imagecave.com also works as free image hosting -- also optimizes pics to load on pages faster.

Here are pictures of my front mount.

To fit it, I cut out a section of the stock front valance which sits behind my Racing Dynamics front airdam. I think guys with an IS front airdam could do the same as well.

Its tucked away nicely and you can't notice it at all, so it should work for you guys that are worried about the "rice" look.

how tall is that intercooler? it doesn't look like the majority of it gets a whole lot of direct air exposure............

russ, you are right in saying that there are a few m3's running around with fmic's at 600 rwhp but in addittion to that, there the the ics bumble bee making 1025 rwhp (just trying to help you support your claim there..........

duke, don't you think people use fmic's for a reason? don't you think there is a reason that most turbo kits out there use fmic's? they are cheaper than a w/a intercooler and they wont heat soak.

gol10dr1 wrote: duke, don't you think people use fmic's for a reason? don't you think there is a reason that most turbo kits out there use fmic's?

they are cheaper than a w/a intercooler

and they wont heat soak.

For people trying to save money, a turbocharger installation is most likely a tactical error...

A poorly designed air to air intercooler will heat soak the same as a poorly designed water to air intercooler will heat soak...

Two issues with the air to air intercooler are 1) pressure drop across the core, and 2) packaging.

It just seems for the E28, a water to air intercooler is the more elegant solution...

elegant sure, but it's cheaper and with less "moving parts"

I wanna still be different and get one for myself.

M635CSi wrote: A poorly designed air to air intercooler will heat soak the same as a poorly designed water to air intercooler will heat soak...

It seems like you're implying that there are no heatsoak differences between the two. I'm not sure I buy this. Don't A/W aftercoolers act more like heat sinks than heat exchangers?

What I am saying is - as the water in the A/W unit sucks heat out of the air, it stays in the water. As I understand it, typically, there is nothing at work to cool the water. The A/W unit relies on the tremendous specific heat of water to act as a huge sink. The A/W unit can never acheive steady state operation.

An A/A unit, on the other hand, doesn't absorb the heat but releases it into the atmosphere. There is no "soak" capacity to exhaust, and it should be therefore possible to acheive steady state on an A/A setup.

I was quite surprised actually to hear that the TCD water setup ran well on a road course - most race cars use A/A units.

It seems like you're implying that there are no heatsoak differences between the two. I'm not sure I buy this. Don't A/W aftercoolers act more like heat sinks than heat exchangers?

While I agree that water acts as a heat sink, all effective water to air setups I've seen have some form of heat exchanger, very much like an oil cooler, in the front of the car with a pump to move the water (there are total loss ice systems for drag cars but thats another deal all thogether).

Big Bronze Rim wrote: While I agree that water acts as a heat sink, all effective water to air setups I've seen have some form of heat exchanger, very much like an oil cooler, in the front of the car with a pump to move the water (there are total loss ice systems for drag cars but thats another deal all thogether).

Ahh thanks. That changes the game a bit. Even so, presumably the "water cooler" cannot cool the water as fast as the water is heated by the intake air charge? So the water cooler slows down, but does not eliminate heat soaking ?

A properly sized water/air system will not heat soak.
Todd

T_C_D wrote:A properly sized water/air system will not heat soak.
Todd

Where does the heat go?