so what is the real difference between the m5 and the m535i?

[micahulrick]

is it year of production, engine, appearence, or what??

[BKCowGod3]

all of the above.

The M535 has the standard SOHC and the M5 has the twin cam M88. Different bodykits, different suspension, and the M535 was never officially imported.

[DRP535]

The M535i looks like it goes fast but doesn't. The M5 doesn't look like it goes fast but does.

In a nutshell.

[Ted in T.O.]

My m535i is fast enough for me. 8)

[Duke]

The M535i looks like it goes fast but doesn't. The M5 doesn't look like it goes fast but does.

Even while I was NA my M535i would kick a US spec M5's ass, I had way more torque and the same HP.

Now FI - All but the newest M5's (maybe) will eat my dust. (uhhhh.....once the engine is up to speed and tuned mit 20 psi of boost)

I love E28 M5s but they are not all that and especially by todays standards on the avarage side as far as quickness.

AND.....some euro M5 came with the M-tech kit as an option.

[Matt]

Even while I was NA my M535i would kick a US spec M5's ass, I had way more torque and the same HP.

Now FI - All but the newest M5's (maybe) will eat my dust. (uhhhh.....once the engine is up to speed and tuned mit 20 psi of boost)

I love E28 M5s but they are not all that and especially by todays standards on the avarage side as far as quickness.

AND.....some euro M5 came with the M-tech kit as an option.

My modified honda civic is faster than your modified M535i.

I suppose that means that in general, the civic is faster than the M535i, right?

I knew from reading the thread title that there would be someone posting a nice troll and you would take the bait and represent the M535i

Let's be as factual as possible, only considering factory stock cars.

1- the M535i got a normal specification M30 SOHC 3.5L "big six" engine, with what, 9:1 CR pistons, and around ~210hp ?
2- the M5 in europe got the M88/3 engine, which was 10.5:1 CR, equal length headers, 4 v/ cyl, 6 throttles, and 286hp.
3- the M5 in the US got the S38B35 engine, which was 9.8:1 CR, log headers, 4v/cyl, 6 throttles, 256 hp.

Anyone know details on tranny, diff, etc ?

The long and short of it is that the M535i had mostly off-the-shelf engine parts, whilst the M5 had a "hot" 4v/cyl engine, descended from the M1's 4.0L engine.

I coulldn't tell you how the interiors, options, suspension, etc might be different/similar between the two, but i bet Duke and a few others know.

[Duke]

I knew from reading the thread title that there would be someone posting a nice troll and you would take the bait and represent the M535i

Hey, I am in Iraq with nothing better to do. Bait, bait, bait.....................I'll take it.

1- the M535i got a normal specification M30 SOHC 3.5L "big six" engine, with what, 9:1 CR pistons, and around ~210hp ?

Correction - 10:1 CR, 218 HP/229 lb/ft torque.

The US spec S38B35 had 239 lb/ft torque, a M535i with a STOCK engine and being much lighter (400 lbs on average) would give it a hell of a run for its money.

[DRP535]

1- the M535i got a normal specification M30 SOHC 3.5L "big six" engine, with what, 9:1 CR pistons, and around ~210hp ?

Actually either a 8:1 with 185bhp or a 10:1 with 218bhp depending on whether or not a catlytic converter was required.

The long and short of it is that the M535i had mostly off-the-shelf engine parts, whilst the M5 had a "hot" 4v/cyl engine, descended from the M1's 4.0L engine.

The M1 didn't have a 4.0L engine. It had the very same M88 engine as the M5 though with a mechanical fuel injection system and different manifolding for the vertical mounting. It produced 277bhp owing to the more rudimentary fuel injection, but its capacity was the very same 3453cc.

[Blue Shadow]

Ted in T.O. wrote:

My m535i is fast enough for me. Cool

You're just getting old!![/b]

[ekdemos]

The s38 is one of if not the best sound bmw engine ever. I have a nice stero in my m5 but I almost never listen to it because I would rather listen to the car.
You have modified your m30 to an extreem. If I did the same to my M5 I would have 500 hp and Almost nothing including the new M5 would touch me. God I wish I had the money to do that.
The m535i would only give the m5 a run for it money 0 to 60. After that it would fade away in the rearview mirror.

[ddstl]

The difference is that you rarely will ever be able to buy a M535i in any condition. You see one for sale maybe every 2-3 months. A good one maybe once every 2-3 years US M5's are usually 3-5 deep on ebay, autotrader, and Roundel. There are maybe 100 M535i's in the US and Canada in any condition. Most of the M5's that were sold here in the US are still on the road.

The M5 has more power and more leather, and is a beautiful, special(and rare) car in it's own right. The M535i is more rare, and has euro treatments that the US models do not have in stock form.

[Ted in T.O.]

I'm trying to keep track of the M535i's in Canada and there are only 11 that i know of for sure so far.

[DRP535]

The difference is that you rarely will ever be able to buy a M535i in any condition. You see one for sale maybe every 2-3 months. A good one maybe once every 2-3 years US M5's are usually 3-5 deep on ebay, autotrader, and Roundel. There are maybe 100 M535i's in the US and Canada in any condition. Most of the M5's that were sold here in the US are still on the road.

The M5 has more power and more leather, and is a beautiful, special(and rare) car in it's own right. The M535i is more rare, and has euro treatments that the US models do not have in stock form.

It's the other way round down here.

[Duke]

It's the other way round down here.

Whatchtalkingabout???

Just looking at the M Registry -

E28 US M5 - 179
E28 Euro M5 - 6 (in the US)

M535i - 43 (31 which are in the US and Canada)

M535i - MUCH more rare a beast than the US M5.

[DRP535]

In Australia Euro KAT spec M535i's are far more plentiful than M5's due to the fact that M5's were never sold here and the M535i was. We're also a RHD market so the only E28 M5's that are here are ex-UK examples privately imported (what you guys would call grey-market cars). I don't know how many M5's there actually are in Australia now but I would be very surprised if it's more than 10. 5 would be a better guess.

M535i's with the full-house tupperware kit are like E36's in comparison. Relatively commonplace, though still not "common" in the general meaning of that term of course.

[Duke]

Sorry DRP535,

Did not realize you were down under.

[RobertRO]

I have some questions; they are a bit off, but still connected with the topic:

Is the M88 engine a direct fit replacement for an M30 engine?
To put it in other words, is it possible to take the M30 engine off a 535i, and replace it with an M88/S38 engine, while keeping exactly the same manual transmission and driveshaft that were originally fitted to the 535i?
Do the M5 clutch splines fit the Getrag 260 input shaft splines?

I think that the M5 M88/S38 engine came with Getrag 280 manual gearbox. Is this transmission more robust, compared to a Getrag 260, for example? Are there any specs / features that make the 280 stand out?

[ekdemos]

Yes, you can take out your m30 and put a s38 in its place. However, you will need a new ECU and a few other bits. The 260 or 265 is stronger than the 280, but the 280 has closer gear ratios. Hope this helps.

[stuartinmn]

Just looking at the M Registry -
M535i - 43 (31 which are in the US and Canada)

That's interesting...I didn't know the M Registry had a category for M535i's. Guess I never thought to look.

[Rich Euro M5]

Yes, you can take out your m30 and put a s38 in its place. However, you will need a new ECU and a few other bits. The 260 or 265 is stronger than the 280, but the 280 has closer gear ratios. Hope this helps.

The G280 is actually stronger than the G260/6 and 265. The problem lies in the synchro material used in the later version of the G280. Early production Euro M5(s) received the G280 with brass synchro rings and had a "Green" label specifying the gearr lube to use. The BMW PN crosses to Mobile SHC 630. Later US/NA M5(s) and M6(s) have a Red/Pink gear lube label specifying ATF. These versions of the G280 have the moly syncro rings/cones. When the synchro rings/cones fail then you start crunching gears and damage the transmission. One cannot forget the Dogleg used in the early M635Csi, this transmission is weaker than the G265/260-6 trannys. The Dogleg was never installed in the M5 while it was available in the M535i by checking the option box for the sport transmission.

Either the G260/6 or G265 will be adequete behind an M88/S38. The down side is the taller numerical 1st gear in the G265/260. With a 3.91 lsd the rev limiter would be real easy to hit. The G280 5th/OD is the same ratio as the G265/260.

Rich

[Tammer in Philly]

Just looking at the M Registry -

E28 US M5 - 179
E28 Euro M5 - 6 (in the US)

M535i - 43 (31 which are in the US and Canada)

M535i - MUCH more rare a beast than the US M5.

I suspect the production numbers are a better indicator of rarity than the number of current owners who happen to be web jockeys and list their cars online. Maybe fewer enthusiasts own the M535i? Of course you'd expect fewer M535i in a country that never officially imported them. They *should* be rarer in the US, but that doesn't hold everywhere.

Besides, as another example, the M-technic package 1994 325is is much more rare than the E36 M3. Does that make it the better car? All were white and had the M50B25tu motor.

I like the M535i but I think they all need a motor like Duke's old NA motor ... I recently had the opportunity to drive an E23 Hartge H7S and good God, that M30 is awesome. Sounded great, pulled like hell, had all kinds of torque over the S38. Ran out of revs a little too soon but overall I was amazed at how that big a car could gather steam and go. Unfortunately the brakes were in crappy shape, shaking pretty bad, so I couldn't really rock the back roads but opening up the motor on the straights was worth it anyway.

I absolutely love the S38, though of course there are many stronger/more flexible motors. The sound of it and the feel of it rushing from 4k to 7k rpm is really what makes the M5 a special car. Just like the E30 M3, if you appreciate it for what it is there's nothing else quite like it. TCD's car or Duke's car will whip my M5 without breaking a sweat, but so what? I will be smiling just as much as them, and that's what matters.

My ideal garage: the silver iS with a hotrod M30 build (NA), the M5, and another E28 or E30 with a TCD kit. Then I'd have my bases covered! Oh I'd still need that Inka '02 tii.

-tammer <--rambling today, hungover as all hell

[ekdemos]

Thanks rich. I though it had something to do with the syncros because my 3rd gear syncro is almost gone and you have to hit it just right in order for it not to grind. when I recondition my 280 can I get brass syncros?

[Rich Euro M5]

Thanks rich. I though it had something to do with the syncros because my 3rd gear syncro is almost gone and you have to hit it just right in order for it not to grind. when I recondition my 280 can I get brass syncros?

I have no idea if the later G280 can be refitted with brass synchro rings. You need to go directly to the man, Jim Blanton for your answer.

Rich

P.S. I'm not 100% certain the early G280s had brass synchro rings. I heard about the differences somewhere, I believe it may have been M6 related. The M6 had all three versions of transmissions. The Dogleg in the M635Csi, and both the green label and red label G280s.

[Matt]

My first bimmer was an e12 528i 5sp, and that car was a lot of fun. I love the M30 engine.

When i finished school i sold the (twice wrecked by me) e12 and went to look for a black E34 535i 5spd. Couldn't find one, so i ended up buying an E28 M5. At least i knew it was the right color and with the correct gearbox (compared with E34s.. which seem to be green or champagne, and automatics.. ugh)

The M5 has been wonderful. Fantastic daily driver, once you get the bugs worked out, and great at the track for a novice like I was. I don't think I'll ever sell mine because there's nothing else quite like it. I can't tell you what makes it a fun car, only that it is. Maybe it's the motor characteristics? Anytime I drive mine i _have_ to wind it out because its like the car asks for it.

I really like the 5 series.. all of them. I'd like a silver E12 with euro bumpers and alpina wheels, just because they look fantastic. And I still want a black on black E34 535i 5 speed. I don't want the 540 - its grills were too wide, and I want to make the E34 a TCD Turbo car, so i can see what you M30 turbo guys are going on about