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Finally going to install....something.

Discussion pertaining to positive pressure E28s.
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Damon in STL
Posts: 474
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: St. Louis

Finally going to install....something.

Post by Damon in STL »

Well, my M106 engine has now been sitting close to five years and I've done most of the other mods to my car that were on the list. M-tech kit, paint, suspension, and brakes are all done. Now it's time to move onto the engine.

I'm now trying to decide if I should swap in the whole engine or just the head, turbo, oil cooler, etc... Both engines have about 130k on them. The engine in the car is in good shape, burns no oil, but, has a slight tick in the top end.

I've decided to go with Megasquirt for both fuel and ignition timing. So, I'm starting my hunt for a 60-2 wheel and a TPS (from auto e34). I'm thinking about just buying a built kit and fabricating the wiring harness. Anyone have a writeup on the MS yet?

I enjoy the technical aspects of the install and I'm not really looking for big HP numbers....yet.

Any opinions on swapping engines vs. swapping the heads?

Damon in STL
Mark 88/M5 Houston
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Post by Mark 88/M5 Houston »

Check with TCD and Peter Florance on the MS info. I think Todd mentioned another name for it the other day after Peter puts his "tweaks" on it.
Skeen
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Post by Skeen »

To use the 60-2, you'll have to use MSI with extras. You can use Bosch TPS #0280 122 001 (used on Volvos among other things) @ $50-70 new. I think if I were to do MS again, I would not use a relay board. DIYAutoTune.com is a great source for supplies. The only reason I wouldn't just do a head swap would be if I wanted to change the clutch (this really just depends on your power goals--and what's in it now). I don't know of any E28-specific MS write up, but there's really no need for one; there's tons of info at megasquirt.info and msefi.com.

Good luck!
flukester
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Re: Finally going to install....something.

Post by flukester »

Damon in STL wrote:Well, my M106 engine has now been sitting close to five years and I've done most of the other mods to my car that were on the list. M-tech kit, paint, suspension, and brakes are all done. Now it's time to move onto the engine.

I'm now trying to decide if I should swap in the whole engine or just the head, turbo, oil cooler, etc... Both engines have about 130k on them. The engine in the car is in good shape, burns no oil, but, has a slight tick in the top end.

I've decided to go with Megasquirt for both fuel and ignition timing. So, I'm starting my hunt for a 60-2 wheel and a TPS (from auto e34). I'm thinking about just buying a built kit and fabricating the wiring harness. Anyone have a writeup on the MS yet?

I enjoy the technical aspects of the install and I'm not really looking for big HP numbers....yet.

Any opinions on swapping engines vs. swapping the heads?

Damon in STL
Hello!

I'm in the process of converting my M30B34 (US spec) engine to MegaSquirt-II. I have got the auto e34 TPS myself. The rest of the car is being put back together by my mechanic these days. Once this is done, I'll be converting from Motronic to MSII. There was a guy on the MS forum recently who was fitting an e34 M30 into an e3 chassis and had a pretty usable street tune. He privately sent me his settings. I'll soon be comparing that with my own calculated settings and see how far these are..

If anyone here is interested, I can post my progress somewhere..

In fact, I'll probably have a lot of questions for you guys at different steps in the process... (probably not in the FI section for now though...). One thing is that I decided against the 60-2 and will be going to a 36-1 with EDIS6. Then, the distributor and AFM will be removed.... :)

Antoine in QC.CA
Skeen
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Re: Finally going to install....something.

Post by Skeen »

flukester wrote:One thing is that I decided against the 60-2 and will be going to a 36-1 with EDIS6.
That's what I've done, but the 60-2 would be simpler.
flukester
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Re: Finally going to install....something.

Post by flukester »

Skeen wrote:
flukester wrote:One thing is that I decided against the 60-2 and will be going to a 36-1 with EDIS6.
That's what I've done, but the 60-2 would be simpler.
It definitely would if you run MS-1 (with MSnS-Extra firmware). The wheel decoder feature for MS-II (which is what I bought a while ago) is still in the beta code only. There is a very specific bug in 2.684 (IIRC) that is preventing them from releasing it as an official version, and it's with the wheel decoder feature and flash burns. (PM me if you want more details).

Are you saying you have an M30 with 36-1 currently installed on? If so, then I'd love to ask you a few specific questions :)



OK, I'll try not to hijack this thread more than I already have.. sorry..

Let me start a new thread in an appropriate section..

Antoine in qc.ca
flukester
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Post by flukester »

Damon, for what it's worth, I found my e34 TPS for 20$ USD on the popular auction site. The 60-2 can probably be found on any e34 M30 as well (and the sensor+bracket). Let me know if you want the complete Bosch part number for the TPS. Be aware that the auto TPS has an auto transmission connector (round with 6 pins and a cloud shape inside) while the regular e28 manual connector is a rectangle 3 pins connector. If you find a car where you can get the part from, try to get the connector with it as well. Let me know if you want the actual pinout.

It's a direct bolt on to the Throttle Body btw... :)

I'm not sure about the 60.2 though. What I have seen *looks* like the teeth are actually grinded in the balancer (damper?). I'm not sure if it's a direct bolt on.

Another way would be to reuse the two stock sensors on the flywheel. MS-II has no current support for two sensors but it would be possible to build a small circuit that'd combine the two sensors signal and generate one clean signal back to the MS-II unit. If you are running MS-I with MSnS-Extra firmware, you might be able to feed it the two sensors signal (check the docs on this one)..

Hope that helps!
Antoine in QC.CA



EDIT: My e34 auto TPS is the following: Bosch 0 280 120 406. Damon, I can take a pic of the connector if you're interested.
Damon in STL
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Location: St. Louis

Post by Damon in STL »

Good info guys, thanks!

I'm thinking of doing the head swap more as a time saver to get the car back on the road quicker. If I pull the engine, I know I'll get caught up in the "while you are in there....." routine and get bogged down with replacing everything at once (my car was "parked" for three plus years for the other upgrades). I don't mind replacing the parts. It's more of a time thing.

The biggest challenge if I just swap heads will be getting the turbo oil discharge back to the sump. I can either drill the block like what is done on the M106 or I can route a line to the oil pan. Everything else (mechanical) is pretty much a bolt-on. The oil cooler equipment will bolt-on. I've got one of Todd's original passenger side motor mounts (that I bought maybe three years ago) that I can modify to allow clearance for the wastegate prior to installing it. All the other "parts" will be made to fit externally. I've got a couple of intercoolers and both the M102 and M106 intake piping.

What I really need to do is break the project down into two distinct parts. With engine management being the first. I really wish the issue with the flywheel sensors and too many teeth had been worked out. But, if the 60-2 wheel works, I'll just go that route.

Antoine, thanks for the info on the TPS. If you have pics, I'd love to see them to make sure I get the right stuff.

Micheal, I've been thinking about using the existing wiring harness, adapting a plug from MegaSquirt to it and another harness for the other stuff. I'm thinking if I do it this way, I can swap back to motronic if I need to.

Good info....keep it coming!

Damon in STL
T_C_D
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Post by T_C_D »

When you replace the head be sure to install head studs and a MLS gasket!
Todd
Skeen
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Post by Skeen »

Damon in STL wrote:Micheal, I've been thinking about using the existing wiring harness, adapting a plug from MegaSquirt to it and another harness for the other stuff. I'm thinking if I do it this way, I can swap back to motronic if I need to.
Well, if you're up for it, go ahead! Tracking all that down and making something work seems tougher than making a second harness. What I did was just leave the stock harness and put another one over it. Honestly though, I'm never going to use Motronic again and should just take it off.
Damon in STL
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Location: St. Louis

Post by Damon in STL »

Well, I just talked to Todd and I'm now thinking about taking a more basic path.

If I swap heads I'll need a new head gasket and ARP studs. Then, instead of going with MegaSquirt, I can use 30 lb. injectors with a FMU and the existing 059 ECU with the stock chip for up to about 13 psi. Maybe a little more depending on the efficiency of the system. I should be able to do the above in a couple of weekends (at most).

Then, I can see how I like the setup and later decide if I want/need more power.

Thanks, for the insight Todd.

Damon in STL
Nebraska_e28
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Post by Nebraska_e28 »

flukester wrote: Be aware that the auto TPS has an auto transmission connector (round with 6 pins and a cloud shape inside) while the regular e28 manual connector is a rectangle 3 pins connector. If you find a car where you can get the part from, try to get the connector with it as well. Let me know if you want the actual pinout.

Hope that helps!
Antoine in QC.CA
Does anyone have a the pinout of how to wire an auto e34 tps to an auto e28 w/eh tranny? I checked Dukes site but couldnt find it there or here on the board.

thanks
flukester
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Post by flukester »

Nebraska_e28 wrote:
Does anyone have a the pinout of how to wire an auto e34 tps to an auto e28 w/eh tranny? I checked Dukes site but couldnt find it there or here on the board.

thanks
Nebraska, I don't know if the automatic e28's use.

If you need the pinout from the e34 TPS I can provide you this (I'll send another message from home tonight). This won't show you what should connect where though, only what pin in the TPS does what. (You can find out with a multimeter, that's how I did. I later found the pinout from someone else on the net and I had the same results).

I would *assume* the automatic e28s only had the simple TPS with two switches and that's why a lot of people are looking for e34 TPS.

antoine in qc.ca
Duke
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Post by Duke »

Nebraska_e28 wrote:
Does anyone have a the pinout of how to wire an auto e34 tps to an auto e28 w/eh tranny? I checked Dukes site but couldnt find it there or here on the board.

thanks
Go to my webpage, it has all the info on wiring the E34 TPS. Three wires are for the idle/WOT signal. The other three are for the variable throttle position signal.
altus22
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Re: Finally going to install....something.

Post by altus22 »

flukester wrote:There was a guy on the MS forum recently who was fitting an e34 M30 into an e3 chassis and had a pretty usable street tune.
Who is it?

I put MS on my e3 to get rid of the carbs. I have a write up on it, but it's more detailed than you need since all the hardware is already there. If anyone has any questions about implementing MS, feel free to ask me. If you bug Peter too much, he'll start charging you. :laugh:
I'm planning on going to MSII/extra once I am reunited with my e3. MSII/extra has the wasted spark ignition and 60-2 decoder working even though it is not officially released or documented yet.
Also, I'm using the tps from a Hyundai. Same one came on Kias too. Depending on your yards, it may be easier to find than the BMW one. Take a multimeter to make sure it's a potentiometer.
flukester
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TPS pinout

Post by flukester »

OK, here's what I found on my TPS. Hope my notes were good...

Image

Hope it helps.
antoine in qc.ca
cwl4m5
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ms

Post by cwl4m5 »

talk to brian macy at horsepowerconnection.com he put my megasquirt in and tuned it and made all the other appropriate changes. 535is turbo runs great he could probably send you the bin files as well
Nebraska_e28
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Post by Nebraska_e28 »

Sorry again for hi-jacking the thread, but most of you are familiar with this so, I thought I'd post this question here also.

So here's the latest.

I finally have the harness (that took this parts place 2 weeks to ship), and weather permitting I'm going wire up this bad boy over the weekend. I fully understand the write up on Duke's page now on how to wire this bad boy up! Probably the only thing I'm curious about is the metal sheathing that surrounds the wires for the variable throttle position signal. The place I got the part from only sent about 4" worth of the harness. My guess is that the sheathing is to prevent RF interference from affecting the signal going back to the ECU.?

Would I have any issues in just soldering extensions to these wires & then covering them w/a cable sleeve to protect them? TIA
Nebraska_e28
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Post by Nebraska_e28 »

Success at last! I swapped my TPS for one out of an e34 & bingo, I'm back on the road. (until snow hits again) It was pain in the azz tracking down a wire harness for it but well worth the work. Being pressed for time I have yet to wire up the WOT wires but that will be done tomorrow. Thanks to everyone for their insight in diagnosing what initially appeared to be a tranny issue.


After going back & re-reading the post by rexmo about his yodeling issue, a little light finally clicked on what I was missing. Hats off to ya man & Duke for suggesting I trade up the big hunkering assembly for something more compact but effective. :banana: This made a huge difference in how smooth it shifts also.

For everyone on the board that provided positive feedback & continues to do so, keep it flowing! :lol:

And sorry for the dual post, I wanted to make sure thanks got out to everyone involved!

ps. the Hijack is over :laugh:
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