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What is the limitations of this system....I mean I know that it is a really good bang for the buck...

But are there any boost level that it just cant manage,,


Or you would swap it out for a tec3 or autronic(sp) system if I wanted to _____________.

rundatrack wrote:What is the limitations of this system....I mean I know that it is a really good bang for the buck...

But are there any boost level that it just cant manage,,


Or you would swap it out for a tec3 or autronic(sp) system if I wanted to _____________.

Limitation is the person behind the key board.

If you need more than 4 bar of boost, then you should go with a different management system. If you (or someone else) can program the MS to do what you want with the I/Os and/or build the circuits to support your function, you can do pretty much anything. MSII has the CAN bus available so it's theoretically infinitely expandable.
Did you have a specific application in mind?

altus22 wrote:If you need more than 4 bar of boost, then you should go with a different management system. If you (or someone else) can program the MS to do what you want with the I/Os and/or build the circuits to support your function, you can do pretty much anything. MSII has the CAN bus available so it's theoretically infinitely expandable.
Did you have a specific application in mind?

No I was just asking....no projects in the future for me...just a question....


Thanks for the info..

Reason that I asked is because I look at the numbers overseas regarding stock m20 platform...mls+headbolts...and see that the numbers are huge...

Was thinking that it had something to do with the standalones that they are using...

rundatrack wrote:Reason that I asked is because I look at the numbers overseas regarding stock m20 platform...mls+headbolts...and see that the numbers are huge...

Was thinking that it had something to do with the standalones that they are using...

Pay closer attention. Any m20 making huge numbers is modified. Huge cams, ported cyl heads, sheet metal intake manifolds and 25+psi. The Scandanavians are not building daily drivers. They build fun cars that make power from 4500-7000 and spin the tires at 90mph cause the HUGE turbo hits so hard.

Plus they actually know how to tune a standalone. Most of the MS crowd are just learning how to tune.

Todd

I asked a tuner over there what it would take to get 4-500 range out of the m20 and he said o-ring block... mls hg,,, apr headbolts and the standalone that he recommended and that was it...


Just asking...maybe I am wrong....




No biggie..



I guess its those things that you mentioned that make the difference..



Also what makes them non-daily drivers? you will just spin everywhere or something?

rundatrack wrote:Also what makes them non-daily drivers? you will just spin everywhere or something?

If you build a peaky engine that makes little power below, say the 4500 RPM Todd mentions, it will be essentially undriveable for daily use. That doesn't even include the stiff clutch or gearing required, or the race gas they might need.

rundatrack wrote:

Also what makes them non-daily drivers?

The owners.

don't bother with it I had one and switched to megasquirt. Tec3 is tooooooo tempermental. I am infinitely happier with MS

cwl4m5 wrote:don't bother with it I had one and switched to megasquirt. Tec3 is tooooooo temperamental. I am infinitely happier with MS

What are you talking about?

Todd (TCD) has experience with tuning MS and TEC3 now and he feels that the MS is easier to tune but the TEC3 is able to tune to a much finer degree than the MS.

Temperamental TEC3 is not.............I am actually getting better at it myself. There are MANY, many different ways to adjust many different parameters. TEC3 has just came out with firmware for the computer and software for the tuning program updates that improved the TEC3 even more.

Although, I just tried to update my TEC3 ECU and wouldn’t luck have it............I have one of the 5% of the computers that locks up during the upgrade and has to be pulled and returned to Electromotive for programming............................I am so lucky...........NOT

Duke M535ti wrote:Todd (TCD) has experience with tuning MS and TEC3 now and he feels that the MS is easier to tune but the TEC3 is able to tune to a much finer degree than the MS.

I'm curious, is this in reference to MSI or MSII? How is the TEC3 more precise?

Skeen wrote: How is the TEC3 more precise?

Not sure which MS......................more precise. Speaking from what Todd told me. The changes in the fuel tables for the MS, made a much greater change in the A/F ratio when his car was on the dyno. My car with the TEC3, the changes were much more subtle and in a different format that the MS for adjustment (not sure of the difference). Todd felt that the TEC3 could be finer tuned than the MS..........he would also be much quicker at tuning the TEC3 with more experience.

Comments from the guys who were running the dyno about the TEC3 were that they do not see the TEC3 systems much. They seemed to be on "higher end", very high HP cars. Not sure what to make of that but they had not used TEC3 much at all.

Skeen wrote: How is the TEC3 more precise?

16x16 tables

T_C_D wrote:

Skeen wrote: How is the TEC3 more precise?

16x16 tables

That's what I was looking for.

MSII has 12x12 tables, so it's a little closer than MSI.

the other big difference (maybe - i dont know if the TEC3 does this but many "big boy" systems do) is that MS lacks sequential injection control... and non-waste-spark ignition.

With enough meddling and a cam sensor, you could do this, but I dont know of anyone that's done it yet.

The other thing is that what was true of MS 6 months ago may not be true now.. development moves fast.

Matt wrote:the other big difference (maybe - i dont know if the TEC3 does this but many "big boy" systems do) is that MS lacks sequential injection control... and non-waste-spark ignition.

With enough meddling and a cam sensor, you could do this, but I dont know of anyone that's done it yet.

The other thing is that what was true of MS 6 months ago may not be true now.. development moves fast.

As far as I can tell, there have been no major updates to MS I or II to make it a clear look and feel better in the last year.

I think you'll see more TEC3s in high end cars as its a definate "higher end" system than MS or the other lower cost systems. That should be readily obvious.

RussC

Hey

Ms has waste-spark for 12 cyl and cop for 6 cyl.

And there is a new hi-resolution code naw. Stil with 12x12 tabel, but with smaller steps in fuel tuning.

My english is not good but I hope you can understand my.

Christian

Skeen wrote:

T_C_D wrote:

Skeen wrote: How is the TEC3 more precise?

16x16 tables

That's what I was looking for.

MSII has 12x12 tables, so it's a little closer than MSI.

FYI: MSnSE has 12x12 tables and runs on MS.

russc wrote:As far as I can tell, there have been no major updates to MS I or II to make it a clear look and feel better in the last year.

The router board and GPIO board are under testing, and Microsquirt is also out.

The router board will probably give people what they need to do coil-on-plug and sequential injection.

In terms of what the hw does, MS2 is probably "feature complete" - no additional software capabilities for it make sense until the hardware platform evolves. Once the GPIO/router boards are done you'll see the software change to fit the CAN distributed architecture. I.e. the legacy MS2 hardware will be a CAN brain basically with multiple router boards doing injector and ignitor events.

with ms 2 can i reprogram my rev limmiter? to a higher value?

Yes, with MS2 you can choose the type of revlimiting, and the rpm's at which each stage (assuming a 2-stage limiting scheme) engages.

softcut i beleive is where ignition retard happens more and more severely, hardcut is where fuel is killed (i beleive).