MyE28.com

Well,
Time to start the official MS install thread on the Kilr5er. I ordered the fully made box from Peter Flourance. It will include boost control and knock control. Since Im working 50+ hr weeks, Im having him do it at a cost of $625. Ill be doing the harness mods on the car over the Xmas holiday. Should be recieving the parts for the splicing this week.

Im trying to use all the stock M30 sensors. Its still unclear if I can get the BMW ICV to workf with MS. I believe there are some known problems with the way MS deals with it. Im going to try to see, then move on to I guess a stepper motor type if that fails.

Im going to splice the MS 37pin conn harness right into the M30b35 harness end. Im not going with a 55pin adaptor. I have a spare harness and dead ECU it I decide to go that route.

Im doing this now as I smogged the car yesterday. Passed with flying colors. this is the first time I didn't have to argue with the tech that the Check Engine light isn't in this car. Since I have M1.3 and the 179 ECU, the CE light is working This give me 2 yrs till the next check to get MS working and hidden to pass the next smog.......but.....

I wont have this car past next yr Im moving on to a E34 as soon as I find the right the car. I want a auto tranny and a more modern vehicle. I want a car I can drive all the time if I so choose, traffic or no traffic, thats it. I will be turboing the E34 at some point. Im looking a $1500 172k car tomorrow to see if its an acceptable project. When the car is at and acceptable point, the Kilr5er will be sold.

RussC

russc wrote:Well,
Time to start the official MS install thread on the Kilr5er. I ordered the fully made box from Peter Flourance. It will include boost control and knock control. Since Im working 50+ hr weeks, Im having him do it at a cost of $625. Ill be doing the harness mods on the car over the Xmas holiday. Should be recieving the parts for the splicing this week.

Im trying to use all the stock M30 sensors. Its still unclear if I can get the BMW ICV to workf with MS. I believe there are some known problems with the way MS deals with it. Im going to try to see, then move on to I guess a stepper motor type if that fails.

Im going to splice the MS 37pin conn harness right into the M30b35 harness end. Im not going with a 55pin adaptor. I have a spare harness and dead ECU it I decide to go that route.

Im doing this now as I smogged the car yesterday. Passed with flying colors. this is the first time I didn't have to argue with the tech that the Check Engine light isn't in this car. Since I have M1.3 and the 179 ECU, the CE light is working This give me 2 yrs till the next check to get MS working and hidden to pass the next smog.......but.....

I wont have this car past next yr Im moving on to a E34 as soon as I find the right the car. I want a auto tranny and a more modern vehicle. I want a car I can drive all the time if I so choose, traffic or no traffic, thats it. I will be turboing the E34 at some point. Im looking a $1500 172k car tomorrow to see if its an acceptable project. When the car is at and acceptable point, the Kilr5er will be sold.

RussC

MS1 I'm assuming?

It's funny, I'm trying to dump my e28 for an e3.

russc wrote:I ordered the fully made box from Peter Flourance.

That's Florance.

Great thread Russ. As I will probably be doing this install sometime in the future, I'll let you work out all the bugs first.

russc wrote:It will include boost control and knock control.

My TEC3 can do boost control too. I opted for separate EBC because I don’t want to be running around with a laptop in order to adjust my boost settings. With the Greddy Boost controller I can toggle between a low and hi boost setting. The TEC3 can not do that.

Good luck with the noisy M30 and knock control, it's proving to be quite a challenge.

from reading info on the MS forum I thought others had made the BMW ICV valve work. Guess I will have to read up on it again.

The only non-BMW sensor that I will be using is the one for intake air temp.

RDAvena, what knock sensor do you anticipate using?

I did not specify that I was going to include knock sensing.

Perhaps you don't intend to use one then.

If you have a dead ecu, you could put the MegaSquirt in the empty chassis and use the stock connector so you wouldn't have to cut your harness. It's probably more work than you're looking for though. If you need any help, feel free to ask me.

altus22 wrote:If you have a dead ecu, you could put the MegaSquirt in the empty chassis and use the stock connector so you wouldn't have to cut your harness. It's probably more work than you're looking for though. If you need any help, feel free to ask me.

That seems the more elegant solution.

russc wrote:I wont have this car past next yr

Are you going to do an MS install on a car you plan on selling within a year? With the MS still on it?

I think that's a bit unethical to be honest. I've cancelled my MS2 install on my Audi because i think i'm going to sell it.

The way I see it, it is a bit shady to sell someone a car that nobody will have any chance of working on successfully. If the sensors and wiring are 100% identical, plug and play, then _maybe_ it is ok, but in that case, you may as well just put the factory ECU back in it prior to sale.

On something like my Audi, it's be 100% custom, and nobody would have any chance of working on it. IMO, It's only valid to sell someone a car with an MS conversion if that person is up to the task of debugging / installing MS in the first place.

Just food for thought.

Matt wrote:

russc wrote:I wont have this car past next yr

Are you going to do an MS install on a car you plan on selling within a year? With the MS still on it?

I think that's a bit unethical to be honest. I've cancelled my MS2 install on my Audi because i think i'm going to sell it.

The way I see it, it is a bit shady to sell someone a car that nobody will have any chance of working on successfully. If the sensors and wiring are 100% identical, plug and play, then _maybe_ it is ok, but in that case, you may as well just put the factory ECU back in it prior to sale.

On something like my Audi, it's be 100% custom, and nobody would have any chance of working on it. IMO, It's only valid to sell someone a car with an MS conversion if that person is up to the task of debugging / installing MS in the first place.

Just food for thought.

Umm
Well, ya. I wouldnt try to sell the car w/o full disclosure. I realize that the audience for sale would be smaller, but the car has 3 piggybacks in it now. Would it be any easier to sell with those???? Probably not. I look at it as a wash. Its hard to sell either way. If I have to convert it back cause it wont sell, I may just part it out.

RussC

Why is it unethical to make the car run better?

It would be unethical if Russ said the car was stock, but I don't see how putting a MS on there has anything to do with ethics.

Anyone that buys a turbo car like Russ's had better have at least some knowledge of how fix a MS (which isn't that difficult once it's installed) or they're going to go broke taking it to a shop all the time.

russc wrote:If I have to convert it back cause it wont sell, I may just part it out.

You'd do that to the "88 535is Dinan Turbo Final Edition(AKA Kiler5er), the last turbo to roll out of Dinan in '99"? Apparently, you don't really hold it in reverence as much as you've always led us to believe!

Oh right. Sorry everyone - i had forgotten that this was already a turbo'd car and had a bunch of non-factory stuff on it anyhow.

In that case, remove all that piggy back crap and just run a single Megasquirt box. I don't think any soccer moms are going to buy a turbo E28 so that probably takes care of my concerns..

Matt wrote: In that case, remove all that piggy back crap and just run a single Megasquirt box. I don't think any soccer moms are going to buy a turbo E28 so that probably takes care of my concerns..

That's kind of what I was thinking too. Plus, if anything a stand alone is going to make it more attractive to a lot of people.

Hey Russ,

If your BMW DME is already controlling the Idle valve, jus let it Control it and let the BMW DME Do its thing without touching the Fuel or spark.

Thats how I have my running and Ideling pretty well, jus tap'ed my Stock Crank Angle Pos. Sensor wire, and let the Bmw DME Handel the Idle thing. Ive had bmw idling the car when I had MS only controlling Fuel too, and now with Spark, zero problems.

-RJ

Duke M535ti wrote: Good luck with the noisy M30 and knock control, it's proving to be quite a challenge.

Maybe it's your LOUD rockers!!

Idle Air control can be found on this page

and it uses the Bosch 0280 140 505 IAC valve common on many Saabs. Looks just like the BMW part.

Too easy.

Shawn D. wrote:

russc wrote:If I have to convert it back cause it wont sell, I may just part it out.

You'd do that to the "88 535is Dinan Turbo Final Edition(AKA Kiler5er), the last turbo to roll out of Dinan in '99"? Apparently, you don't really hold it in reverence as much as you've always led us to believe!

Again,
What, Im not sure I ever said the car is sacred never to be altered from Dinan pristine! Sure, I defend Dinan from time to time as its the ONLY CA legal system. The history is what it is. Im not so beholden to it as I may come across. Sorry for the confusion 8)

RussC

RDAvena wrote:Idle Air control can be found on this page

and it uses the Bosch 0280 140 505 IAC valve common on many Saabs. Looks just like the BMW part.

Too easy.

Right, but its rumored that circuit doesn't work. I believe I read that on the MS forum in a couple places ~6months ago. There are a number of ways to re-configure the software or the circuit itself to make it work better. Im going to test it and see. If not, Ill do somthing else.

RussC

Duke M535ti wrote:

russc wrote:It will include boost control and knock control.

My TEC3 can do boost control too. I opted for separate EBC because I don’t want to be running around with a laptop in order to adjust my boost settings. With the Greddy Boost controller I can toggle between a low and hi boost setting. The TEC3 can not do that.

Good luck with the noisy M30 and knock control, it's proving to be quite a challenge.

The J&S box now is useless above 4k rpm. Thats just the nature of the beast. Thats a good reason to still use a modern BMW ECU, the knock software algarythms are so much better than anything aftermarket, but even those have a real hard time at the upper RPM range.

RussC

FYI ,
I just found out today in my own standalone install that my M42 has got a 2 wire icv, it should make using the MS normal icv setup real easy

RDAvena wrote:from reading info on the MS forum I thought others had made the BMW ICV valve work. Guess I will have to read up on it again.

The only non-BMW sensor that I will be using is the one for intake air temp.

We're using our hardware design that works well for 3 wire. A variation of the FET circuit that's floating around. No giant 50w resistor.

Having said that, tuning hasn't been done for closed-loop yet.

Right now we have warmup settings for it that work well (Todd is using them).

I just got my 4 wire GM IAC valve fully installed and tuned on. Only problem is, does not work at all. There is no signal from the TEC3 ECU and any of the four wires. NICE!

I have emailed Electromotive a WTF message. I am really gonna be pissed if I have to pull it and send it in. I am sure they do not have any "loaner" ECUs.

Oh, and my main fuel pump (which is less than two years old) is dying too. Will not pump more than 45 psi with the engine off.

Not a good weekend for the M535ti.

Duke,

The IAC setup on the TEC can be tricky. Do you have a TEC-3 or TEC-3R? Are you running the newest firmware and WinTEC? The IAC stuff was changed quite a bit not too long ago. If you are running the current version, make sure you check that section of your manual to have the correct instructions for tuning the IAC, they updated the manual without changing the version number and you will need to download the changes. But if you are getting no signal at all, you may have another problem to fix before you get to that step.

Gents,
Im looking into the future. Will MS run with a auto tranny? I ask this as Im looking to see if my next E34 will be MS compatable.

In looking at the E34 schematics, there are 3 signals Im not sure will work with a MS box.

1) Torque converter lockup. This one may be easy. Does the FI system really need to know when the torque convr. is locked? In the E34, the ouput from from the TCU runs to the DME. Why does the DME need this? Is timing or fuel changed when its locked????

2) IGN Timing. This is more nebulous. The 179 ECU has pin 51 of the DME as IGN timing, whatever that is? This is an output from the TCU again. Does this have to do with shifting the auto tranny. When the shift happens, the DME will throw in a large amount of timing so the engine won't spin out of control during this low load gear change???

3) Fuel Consumption. The TCU has an input for the Fuel Consupmtion signal. Not sure why the TCU needs that also? It has a load input from the TPS.

Any input would be appreciated.

RussC

It won't help with the auto tranny stuff, but Jon K/Urine Machine has done a lot of work on Cerial Killer's car (on bimmerforums) with the MS. Have you talked to him or followed any of his work?

Craig -535i- Seattle wrote:It won't help with the auto tranny stuff, but Jon K/Urine Machine has done a lot of work on Cerial Killer's car (on bimmerforums) with the MS. Have you talked to him or followed any of his work?

Ya,
I followed that thread. His car was a manual? Ill go back and look. Thanks for the heads up.

RussC