MyE28.com

Click for the Thread

Its $1000, I am sure he could be talked down some. Even at $1K its $500 less than new. A great deal.

Just realize you will need a new drive shaft and neck brace for the launch control. I can't say that I recommend the full throttle shifting yet, it's to damn brutal. Once I get a one piece DS and play with the setting, I will re look my recommendation.

I keep my RLTC sat at 10% slip which yields the best acceleration at all time. The slip can be set to 0% for wet days and that is really the bomb.

if its a "great deal" on something that 99.878% of people dont need, is it really a deal at all?

Duke M535ti wrote:Click for the Thread

Its $1000, I am sure he could be talked down some. Even at $1K its $500 less than new. A great deal.

Just realize you will need a new drive shaft and neck brace for the launch control. I can't say that I recommend the full throttle shifting yet, it's to damn brutal. Once I get a one piece DS and play with the setting, I will re look my recommendation.

I keep my RLTC sat at 10% slip which yields the best acceleration at all time. The slip can be set to 0% for wet days and that is really the bomb.

chrism wrote:if its a "great deal" on something that 99.878% of people dont need, is it really a deal at all?

Do you have any experience in a car with RLTC.....no.

Seems to me that you can't have an opinion of "something that 99.878% of people don't need" if you have never seen or experienced the system.

BTW - 100% of people do not need a FI E28 either. So by your logic, any FI money spent is not a deal either.




IF YOU HAVE NOTHING NICE OR CONSTRUCTIVE TO SAY, KEEP YOUR NEGATIVE COMMENTS TO YOURSELF...................the new myE28 theme.

One thing is for sure. I'm fairly certain this system can only be used with a standalone ECU running full sequential injector firing.

At the moment, I think you're the only one running a setup like that, Duke, though Zane might be, and perhaps that guy with the e9 up in Canada. It is a nice setup for those that want it and feel they need it.

Jeremy

Jeremy wrote:One thing is for sure. I'm fairly certain this system can only be used with a standalone ECU running full sequential injector firing.

It is able to run with the OEM BMW batch fire. Just a simple setting change in the software.

Having had it for awhile now, I would never go back to a non TC setup.................its that good.

I see the Race Logic traction control unit as one of those nice to have items that come after learning to set up the car and learning to drive; two things most people don't know and can't do.

Once someone learns to design a car for its intended purpose and learns to drive the car in a way that maximizes its capabilities then the car will go faster and then the car will stop breaking parts. Bottom line: cars that go amazingly fast do so because the people who set them up know what they're doing and the people behind the wheel know how to drive. Unfortunately, RLTC doesn't help with either of those things.

I'm glad someone appreciates the subulty of what I was pointing out.

M635CSi wrote:I see the Race Logic traction control unit as one of those nice to have items that come after learning to set up the car and learning to drive; two things most people don't know and can't do.

Once someone learns to design a car for its intended purpose and learns to drive the car in a way that maximizes its capabilities then the car will go faster and then the car will stop breaking parts. Bottom line: cars that go amazingly fast do so because the people who set them up know what they're doing and the people behind the wheel know how to drive. Unfortunately, RLTC doesn't help with either of those things.

BTW Dookie... I do know what race logic traction control can do. I dont think anyone here dosent since its one of your "my car has" that you adore throwing around.

My new my e28 rule...Dont turn into a crybaby pussy everytime someone dosent agree with you. Wheres your skin of iron?

Knock it off . . . I haven't seen any "crybaby pussies" yet in this thread. Chris, if you wanna pick a fight, finish off your car and roll down the to the pike.

I really don't want the "fastest e28 in CT" crown anymore, you need to take it back.

Jeremy

Jeremy wrote:Knock it off . . . I haven't seen any "crybaby pussies" yet in this thread. Chris, if you wanna pick a fight, finish off your car and roll down the to the pike.

I really don't want the "fastest e28 in CT" crown anymore, you need to take it back.

Jeremy

+100.

M635CSi wrote: Bottom line: cars that go amazingly fast do so because the people who set them up know what they're doing and the people behind the wheel know how to drive. Unfortunately, RLTC doesn't help with either of those things.

I agree 100%. I have learned that over the past several years. I don't consider myself a great driver but I have improved since the very first run in a turbo BMW 6 years ago.

Todd

^ ^ ^ , to all of the no experience with the system comments above ^ ^ ^

Lets try this again -

RaceLogic traction control for sale on Bimmer Forums

Click for the Thread

Its $1000, I am sure he could be talked down some. Even at $1K its $500 less than new. A great deal.

Just realize you will need a new drive shaft and neck brace for the launch control. I can't say that I recommend the full throttle shifting yet, it's to damn brutal. Once I get a one piece DS and play with the setting, I will re look my recommendation.

I keep my RLTC sat at 10% slip which yields the best acceleration at all time. The slip can be set to 0% for wet days and that is really the bomb.

Duke,

You have yet to experience any hard launches. You may perceive that your car with RLTC launches hard but it doesn't as evidenced by your 60' times at the dragstrip.

My cars on the other hand actually launch hard and do not hurt the drivetrains because of the way I apply the power.

What was your best 60ft time? Please take a look because I have a little surprise for you.

Not trying to start any type of shit storm just trying to clarify what constitutes a "hard launch".

Todd

Todd

T_C_D wrote:You have yet to experience any hard launches. You may perceive that your car with RLTC launches hard but it doesn't as evidenced by your 60' times at the dragstrip.

My one day at the drag strip does not represent what I have experienced with my car and launches. The 60' times do not represent what the car can do with the RLTC due to the wheel hop and broken mounts I experienced.

I did not realize this was a TCD against the RLTC contest. Not going to bite and will not play this stupid penis length game.

End of my input.

Duke M535ti wrote:

T_C_D wrote:You have yet to experience any hard launches. You may perceive that your car with RLTC launches hard but it doesn't as evidenced by your 60' times at the dragstrip.

My one day at the drag strip does not represent what I have experienced with my car and launches. The '60 times do not represent what the car can do with the RLTC due to the wheel hop I experienced.

I did not realize this was a TCD against the RLTC contest. Not going to bite and will not play this stupid penis length game.

I believe you need to start giving us some scientific data instead of comments from your "butt dyno/feel" since they seem to be highly inaccurate.

This has nothing to do with TCD but with what constitutes a hard launch. Remember prior to going to the dragstrip you thought the car launched so hard and was so fast that it/you were going to eat my lunch.

What was your best 60footer? 2.2?

Its entirely possible you dont have the fastest E28 in Ct.

Jeremy wrote:Knock it off . . . I haven't seen any "crybaby pussies" yet in this thread. Chris, if you wanna pick a fight, finish off your car and roll down the to the pike.

I really don't want the "fastest e28 in CT" crown anymore, you need to take it back.

Jeremy

I couldnt say anything about RLTC for drag launches as I find that sort of thing irrelevant, but for daily driving and road course work, RLTC is excellent. I drove my friends mkIV supra TT with earlier TC only RL installed for about a week around town before running it at Mid America for a weekend. It never got in the way once at the track. On the street it was fantastic to bury the gas pedal in 2nd gear and just hear the undramatic BRAP-BRAP-BRAP instead of spinning the car and smoking the very expensive tires down to nothing.

My friend installed it after looping the car (on stock boost) on a wet railroad crossing and doing a fair bit of damage.

Was this a driving error? You bet. Do real drivers sometimes make expensive errors? Yes. Does this make you faster at the track? Almost certainly.

For a high-output, RWD, daily driven car, I think it makes a fair bit of sense to install a system like this. You have to be kind of a hardass to say you don't want ABS in a street car. Once you start making real power it doesn't become unreasoanble to want high quality TC in a street car either.

Those are some good points Matt but the issue here is "drag launches" so while a RLTC is a "nice to have", it comes after a car is made reliable, after a car is made to perform well, and after the driver can actually drive, although I'm sure the RLTC would make those who can't drive real well seem better. At, we'll call it $1,000, a used RLTC doesn't make a lot of sense for a car that as of yet, isn't reliable, doesn't, as of yet, make a lot of power, and, as of yet even make it down the quarter mile. Drag racing isn't for everyone but it does provide the best evidence of how fast the driver of a car can accelerate that car...

As far as ABS goes, I think the advantages are situation specific. For a driver that knows how to drive I don't see ABS as meaningful for most situations, now bear in mind, I've haven't been "required" to drive for many years so when I do, it's always because I want to and I don't want to drive in traffic, in snow or in rain. And yes, ABS is a wonderful advancement for those situations but if my car ran like shit I wouldn't run out and install an ABS system on it. I'd take the potential of the car to reality before I complicated the equation with needless stuff. Now I don’t know your friend or his car and there are some pretty fast Toyotas out there. But I can tell a driver able to smoke the car’s tires at will is only able to because the people who set that car up didn’t know what they were doing.

People think they can smoke the tires on their 3,500 pound car whenever they want due to their incredible 400 horsepower engine. They don’t think about how the 5,000 horsepower cars that weight under 2,000 pounds launch without smoking the tires all the way down the quarter mile or in fact without smoking the tires at all…

RLTC would be nice to have on a road car but if I were interested in getting down the quarter mile, I’d spend the time and money setting the chassis properly so it didn’t need traction control to compensate for the chassis not working. The stock E28 chassis doesn’t work real well under acceleration. The answer to that isn’t to shut the fuel off but to fix the chassis.

If traction control is making you significantly faster on a track, you should look at your driving technique/car control abilities. In the level of track driving that an e28 would be in, you should know where your traction limits are. It is faster to push you car to the limits of traction and even a little beyond, than to have traction control on and apply brakes/cut engine power. If you are driving using traction control/ABS all the time, you are probably driving like an idiot.

Thanks for posting this Duke.
I bought the kit for my e28. Boris said it's brand new.

I was going to buy one of these last year but the British pounds conversion was rediculous. It's even worse now which I think makes the price that much better.... I think.

scottiesharpe wrote:Thanks for posting this Duke.
I bought the kit for my e28. Boris said it's brand new.

I was going to buy one of these last year but the British pounds conversion was ridiculous. It's even worse now which I think makes the price that much better.... I think.

Give me a call when you are installing and setting it up. I hope I can avoid you a lot of pain in the install and programing.

Does yours have Full Throttle Shift? Did you get the digital controller?

Lastly, did Boris come off his price?

I will PM you my home number.

Duke M535ti wrote: Give me a call when you are installing and setting it up. I hope I can avoid you a lot of paint in the install and programing.

Does yours have Full Throttle Shift? Did you get the digital controller?

Lastly, did Boris come off his price?

I will PM you my home number.

Thanks. I didn't argue with Boris on the price. It seemed fair.

I do not know what features this unit has. I looked into Race Logic stuff about 2 years ago. I had an early one on my e30 M3 (without the launch button), and I was amazed. I was very excited about telling everyone about it...even tried to convince RL to let me be a distributor, but they had already signed up with BavAuto (I believe). They do a terrible job of marketing this product because it is an incredible unit and it isn't very expensive for what it does. I am surprised everyone with more than 300 hp doesn't have one.

I will phone you for your tips when I get the kit. Thanks.

scottiesharpe wrote: I am surprised everyone with more than 300 hp doesn't have one.

I for one, prefer to modulate the throttle of my car when I drive it, not have a computer do it for me.

I second that.

I prefer to hone my driving skills instead of using gadgets to compensate for them.

T_C_D wrote:

scottiesharpe wrote: I am surprised everyone with more than 300 hp doesn't have one.

I for one, prefer to modulate the throttle of my car when I drive it, not have a computer do it for me.

I use power management everyday with my car and when flying a helicopter. That includes modulating the throttle. My RLTC is just about transparent when driving in dry conditions. Take for instance yesterday, heavy ran and wet as hell. I was able to apply max power that the tires would take in 1st and 2nd on the straight and corners because of the RLTC with out excess spinning. I don't care how "good" you think you are, you are not fast enough (or the mechanical linkage for the throttle) to properly apply maximum power in wet conditions. I had up to 5% tire spin (my wet setting) and very good acceleration in the rain in 1st and 2nd gear. I have Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 tires that received a 300 out of 300 in a Car and Driver tire test for performance in wet conditions, they will stick in the rain, but not with too much power. The car was a joy to drive in the rain.


So Sweeney, Todd and Maddog, you may have "honed" driving skills. Great, good on you , I am very happy for you too. I also have driving skills and the ability to out perform most other drivers in the twisties and the wet weather. I guess all of the F1 drivers are complete armatures and choose not to "hone" their driving skills too.


Go ahead, make some “I am better than you” rebuttal. The facts are and always will be that you do not have the RLTC system in your E28 and have most likely never experienced the system. So your opinions and observation are made from ignorance.

As far as gadgets, I am all about electronic gadgets that control mechanical systems much faster than I can. The Apache would be unflyable without them. The Apache is the worlds best attack helicopter because of the thousands of gadgets help the human pilots engage targets with rockets, missiles and a 30mm gun without flying into the ground. As hard as I push my car, it has NEVER come close to scaring me, or giving me the adrenaline rush that flying the Apache has. I live by gadgets. An so does anyone else who flies a military helicopter or jet.

I use power management everyday with my car and when flying a helicopter. That includes modulating the throttle. My RLTC is just about transparent when driving in dry conditions. Take for instance yesterday, heavy ran and wet as hell. I was able to apply max power that the tires would take in 1st and 2nd on the straight and corners because of the RLTC with out excess spinning. I don't care how "good" you think you are, you are not fast enough (or the mechanical linkage for the throttle) to properly apply maximum power in wet conditions. I had up to 5% tire spin (my wet setting) and very good acceleration in the rain in 1st and 2nd gear. I have Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 tires that received a 300 out of 300 in a Car and Driver tire test for performance in wet conditions, they will stick in the rain, but not with too much power. The car was a joy to drive in the rain.


So Sweeney, Todd and Maddog, you may have "honed" driving skills. Great, good on you , I am very happy for you too. I also have driving skills and the ability to out perform most other drivers in the twisties and the wet weather. I guess all of the F1 drivers are complete armatures and choose not to "hone" their driving skills too.


Go ahead, make some “I am better than you” rebuttal. The facts are and always will be that you do not have the RLTC system in your E28 and have most likely never experienced the system. So your opinions and observation are made from ignorance.

As far as gadgets, I am all about electronic gadgets that control mechanical systems much faster than I can. The Apache would be unflyable without them. The Apache is the worlds best attack helicopter because of the thousands of gadgets help the human pilots engage targets with rockets, missiles and a 30mm gun without flying into the ground. As hard as I push my car, it has NEVER come close to scaring me, or giving me the adrenaline rush that flying the Apache has. I live by gadgets. An so does anyone else who flies a military helicopter or jet.

Duke,

Sweeney, George and I all commented that we prefer to control the throttle of our cars without any computer aids. This was in response to Scottie's comment that he cannot believe that EVERYONE with a 300hp car doesn't have one.

How did you misconstrue that into a personal attack on you?

Todd

Duke,

RLTC will obviously make a car more capable, there's no doubt about that. Most people want to drive their cars without the gadgets because it can be more fun.

Of course F1 teams want to use TC, but that's after they put on good tires, make amazing suspensions, and tune everything to the absolute nth degree. Playing with TC on the street is just that. I have no problem with you running it and if I had the extra scratch I'd probably play with it too. It is NOT a necessity, no matter how hard you argue for it.

Enjoy the RLTC...hopefully I can get a chance to feel it in your car sometime.

Duke

I can appreciate your love of gadgets to enhance your driving experience. I do however believe in the slow down to speed up theory and believe that it will help with your cars build

What I mean and this is not to be viewed as anything but opinion. but I feel that before adding your gadgets you should make sure that your 110% running well on the baseline build.

Having your car run perfectly with your S2 and engine management is the first thing. Getting it to a dyno and running perfectly is the first

Then you add the water injection and then doing back to the dyno and running perfectly again.

Any additional gadget should be put on after a complete review of the current systems strengths and flaws.

It will just make your troubleshooting a lot easier. The increased monetary "donations" that you have had to make could be avoided using this approach.

There are a lot of great things that you have going for you build which include a money is not a option S2 setup. But the problem has been that there have been a lot of things happening that are causing your power to not be where it should be.

Lets not talk drag racing because that includes to many variables...driver...suspension....driver.

The dyno has a pretty good baseline...

We live and we learn but I guarantee you that all of the apache gadgets that make it benchmark helicopter of the world involved a lot of project planning....beta testing.....adjustments...and more testing

But I guarantee that the testing had to be completely 110% correct before the additional gadgets were implemented


As far as personal stuff...just let it roll off your shoulders...I actually find this board to be one of the most civil in regards to bimmers. Usually the boards are filled with people in my age bracket 25-35. The come across as know it alls and some are outright rude.

Slow down to speed up duke.

I think that this will help tremendously...

Have a great day...[/b][/list]

Duke, I don't care that you fly the Apache nor do I care that F1, P1, P2, GT1, etc. have traction control. I also did not state that I had spectacular driving skills. I said I prefer to hone them without the aid of a computer controlled devise. Sure, it may be akin to "honing" a blunt object but that is my choice. This was also in response to Scott Sharps comment.

I'm also told I "need" bigger tires, more lift, lower gearing, etc. on my Jeep so that trails are easier to traverse. If I followed that reasoning I'd just go out and buy a logging skidder. I PREFER to use some vehicle control instead.

You've never drag raced a properly tuned and sorted turbo E28 that's making over 400lb/ft at the wheels without traction control, so, by you're reasoning, you cannot have an opinion on the subject? I've never been whaling, performed open heart surgery on myself or burned a witch but I do have opinions about these things.

You don't have a huge target on your back, quit acting like a whinny, snot nosed, school girl.