Megasquirt is in

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 12, 2007 11:41 AM

and it runs like...crap. But it does run, and thats pretty good. I had about a half hour to get it running last night with some .msq files from e30 guys. My laptop has no battery, which requires an extension cord and a wall outlet, so I have to go and drive the car and come back and try to make adjustments. Still no o2 sensor either. I think its still running lean, but I really dont know. I'll see if I can get it more dialed in over the next few days. But so far, so good.

T_C_D · Post by **T_C_D** » Jul 12, 2007 11:42 AM

turbodan wrote:and it runs like...crap. But it does run, and thats pretty good. I had about a half hour to get it running last night with some .msq files from e30 guys. My laptop has no battery, which requires an extension cord and a wall outlet, so I have to go and drive the car and come back and try to make adjustments. Still no o2 sensor either. I think its still running lean, but I really dont know. I'll see if I can get it more dialed in over the next few days. But so far, so good.

You cannot effectively tune the car without a wideband. Especially by yourself.

Congrats on getting it running.

Todd

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 12, 2007 2:45 PM

Yeah, it stalled and would not restart at lunch. I'm going to need to do it right. Its either that or the MS ecu shit the bed. I hope thats not it.

Maddog · Post by **Maddog** » Jul 12, 2007 3:19 PM

Keep us updated on your progress. There are a few of us on the board such as myself with turbo cars on Megasquirt. What version/code are you running?

I am driving my car every day right now at 8psi and am in the process of installing boost control with the beta version of MSII extra (which I definitely don't recommend for people that don't have lots of experience with MS). I should be moving up to around 15psi in the next few weeks.

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 12, 2007 3:53 PM

My MS box came preloaded with the "latest alpha code". I dont know as much about it as I should to have the car running on it. I have a feeling the learning curve will be frustratingly steep...

This is the megatune .ini file that I'm using to tune it, if you want to check it out:
http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/files/a ... 070617.zip

Maddog · Post by **Maddog** » Jul 12, 2007 4:11 PM

I would not run that code if I were you. I would back off to the release code instead of the alpha code. You will have a lot less frustration if you do it that way. I am running the beta code which is a little more stable than the alpha code, and I am running into a lot of different issues. You don't need anything more than the release code unless you plan on running boost control or closed loop idle control.

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 12, 2007 4:37 PM

Great. By unstable do you mean it would do things like stall out and not restart? I guess I'll look into programming the MS box. I'm a meganoob, and I dont like the sound of unstable code.

Maddog · Post by **Maddog** » Jul 12, 2007 4:48 PM

Perhaps unstable isn't the right statement. It has a bunch of bugs that are still being worked out and still being found out about. You can run the release code which will give you 12X12 VE tables. I ran my car on that for three weeks before changing over to the beta code and it ran great on the release code.

M. Holtmeier · Post by **M. Holtmeier** » Jul 12, 2007 6:10 PM

So the MS I extra code hasn't made it to release code?

Maddog · Post by **Maddog** » Jul 12, 2007 6:13 PM

We are talking about MS2.

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 12, 2007 6:45 PM

I would be okay with 12x12 tables. The extra definition of two 16x16 VE tables is rather overwhelming. I dont know what I would do with that many variables. I dont think I need them. I'll try to reflash my ecu with the release code when I get home. It sounds like it'd be easier to get a handle on.

rs4pro3 · Post by **rs4pro3** » Jul 12, 2007 7:19 PM

sounds about how my car did with the that file. It started right up and ran pretty good in the driveway, but I got down the driveway, and it had no power due to running lean.
Let me know what you think of the release code? I only put the alpha code in there as that's what the msq I was sent was built around.(msq file came from a tuned 325i with 19lb injectors)

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 13, 2007 10:27 AM

I ended up wiping out the VE table and generating a new one last night. Its still crappy, but its closer than it was. I was really looking into reflashing with the release code, but I realized I dont have a .msq file for that code version. So I think I'll try to make this stuff work for now since its all basically set and the car starts and drives, at least until I think I know enough about what I'm doing to bail on it and try to start over. Its improving, it just needs a lot of tuning and setup. I still need to get a TPS for it. Its going just off of the MAP sensor right now.

Maddog · Post by **Maddog** » Jul 13, 2007 10:58 AM

My suggestion for getting started with tuning the VE table is the following...

1. Build your AFR table exactly as you would like your car to run. I would shoot for 12.8-12.5 under boost, 15-15.5 for cruising, and 13.5 for high rpm low load. Build in smooth transitions in AFRs between the different zones.

2. Download megalogviewer

3. Spend a day driving around and datalogging. You want to try to work the whole VE table. I like to focus on one area of the table at a time so that I get a lot of data for one area. Datalog for about 20 minutes or so. Open the datalog and your msq file in megalogviewer and run a VE analysis. This will begin changing your VE table to what it needs to be. I only datalog when the car is running at its usual operating temperature for starters. Always check the VE table changes that megalogviewer has made. Sometimes it will make some unnecessary changes to try to compensate other settings in megasquirt that you may have not setup yet. Accept and save the new VE table when you are happy with it and next time you go into megatune open the new msq file and burn it to the ECU (this burn can take up to 45 seconds and your car will misfire during the burn if it is running).

4. Repeat this over and over again until megalogviewer is only changing VE table values by one.

This should help you get your VE table pretty close relatively quickly. After this point, you can start playing with all of the other settings megasquirt has to offer. I hope this helps speed things along.

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 13, 2007 11:05 AM

Awesome. I'll pick up an 02 sensor and give that a try.

Maddog · Post by **Maddog** » Jul 13, 2007 11:21 AM

Be sure to use a wideband. You can get an LC-1 from DIYautotune. They have plenty in stock.

Skeen · Post by **Skeen** » Jul 13, 2007 11:32 AM

And of course, you have to have a laptop with a battery (or an adapter to run off the car) so that you can datalog while driving.

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 13, 2007 12:43 PM

I picked up a cigar socket AC inverter yesterday. Thats a big time saver.

vance · Post by **vance** » Jul 13, 2007 6:26 PM

Or a really long extension cord.

Vance

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 14, 2007 12:33 AM

Next question is if I can use megasquirt without any TPS input. I dont have anything hooked up right now, and I'd hate to be trying to tune around a signal that its really looking for. I've read that MS 1 wouldn't try to accelerate unless the throttle was past a certain point. That doesn't sound like something I can work around in the mean time.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Jul 14, 2007 8:47 AM

turbodan wrote:Next question is if I can use megasquirt without any TPS input. I dont have anything hooked up right now, and I'd hate to be trying to tune around a signal that its really looking for. I've read that MS 1 wouldn't try to accelerate unless the throttle was past a certain point. That doesn't sound like something I can work around in the mean time.

Dan,

Are you trying to damage your engine? If so, you are on the right track. Operating a EFI with no O2 input or indication and no TPS input is a recipe for disaster. Just don't drive the car until you have all the necessary sensors for the MS to work properly. Whatever tuning you do now will be negated when you get the proper sensors anyway. Kind of a waste of time.

My .02

As far a TPS - you can use a E34 TPS from an automatic car. It has a variable voltage output. Go to my website for how to wire it. I have and extra one that I do not need anymore, you are welcome to it.

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Jul 14, 2007 10:17 AM

turbodan wrote:Next question is if I can use megasquirt without any TPS input. I dont have anything hooked up right now, and I'd hate to be trying to tune around a signal that its really looking for. I've read that MS 1 wouldn't try to accelerate unless the throttle was past a certain point. That doesn't sound like something I can work around in the mean time.

Volvo TPS will also work.
Bosch part # ends in 001

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 14, 2007 11:38 AM

Duke M535ti wrote:
turbodan wrote:Next question is if I can use megasquirt without any TPS input. I dont have anything hooked up right now, and I'd hate to be trying to tune around a signal that its really looking for. I've read that MS 1 wouldn't try to accelerate unless the throttle was past a certain point. That doesn't sound like something I can work around in the mean time.
Dan,

Are you trying to damage your engine? If so, you are on the right track. Operating a EFI with no O2 input or indication and no TPS input is a recipe for disaster. Just don't drive the car until you have all the necessary sensors for the MS to work properly. Whatever tuning you do now will be negated when you get the proper sensors anyway. Kind of a waste of time.

My .02

As far a TPS - you can use a E34 TPS from an automatic car. It has a variable voltage output. Go to my website for how to wire it. I have and extra one that I do not need anymore, you are welcome to it.

I'm thinking about an M50/2 style TPS, which I probably have in stock at work. They're much more compact than the M30 EH tranny TPS. I don't think that'd fit in between the runners on the bottom of the 2.5i manifold. I was hoping I could get it basically driveable without the TPS, but if its critical I guess I could pick one up today.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Jul 14, 2007 11:45 AM

turbodan wrote: I was hoping I could get it basically drivable without the TPS, but if its critical I guess I could pick one up today.

The ECU works with all of the sensors together. Missing the TPS will limit the response of your throttle inputs and could cause lean spikes because the ECU only has the MAP to get its information of engine demand current and not future which the TPS will give it.

Make sure you have the open element IAT sensor too.

Maddog · Post by **Maddog** » Jul 14, 2007 1:40 PM

I have tuned several engines with megasquirt without using TPS because it was going to be a huge PIA to get one in. It isn't absolutely necessary. I find that TPS engines will be a little more responsive and I like to use it as a reference when I am looking at datalogs. You will not damage your engine not using a TPS sensor. You can dial it in without it. BMW engines are pretty easy to install TPS sensors in, particularly when using the volvo sensor. You just need to make a spacer plate and you are good to go.

If you are going to use the basic fuel enrichment settings with megasquirt, you will have to use MapDot only without a TPS sensor, but I usually find that easier to tune Anyway.

I do however strongly recommend a wideband O2 sensor. Again, its not required. You could tune with a narrowband, but a wideband will give you a lot more information and really help you determine how your engine is running. I would not do anything WOT until you have some kind of O2 sensor in. Thats a recipe for detonation and blown headgaskets.

Maddog · Post by **Maddog** » Jul 14, 2007 2:18 PM

Duke M535ti wrote:Missing the TPS will limit the response of your throttle inputs and could cause lean spikes because the ECU only has the MAP to get its information of engine demand current and not future which the TPS will give it.

MAP signals are actually a lot more sensitive than TPS inputs. TPS signal will help you if you are jamming down the pedal quickly, but won't do a whole lot for smooth gas pedal movements(the way you should be driving).

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Jul 14, 2007 2:48 PM

Acceleration enrichments can also dependent on TPS inputs.

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Jul 14, 2007 3:48 PM

I did set it to MAPdot. In any case, I did pick up an m52 TPS, which will go on this afternoon.

Maddog · Post by **Maddog** » Jul 14, 2007 5:14 PM

Duke M535ti wrote:Acceleration enrichments can also dependent on TPS inputs.

That only matter if you set megasquirt to use TPS inputs. This is a setting that is adjustable.

Maybe you need to do some reading on Megasquirt before telling people how to set up their cars with it.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Jul 14, 2007 5:35 PM

Maddog wrote: Maybe you need to do some reading on Megasquirt before telling people how to set up their cars with it.

I don't need to do any reading. Maybe you should do reading on the Electromotive TEC3 and you will see that things are very similar.

The TEC3 and MS can use TPS or MAP (TEC3 can use both, not sure about MS) inputs for the acceleration enrichments. Thats why I said "Acceleration enrichments can also dependent on TPS inputs." I use the TPS input as it is quicker than the MAP which can lag.

What, are you tuning king or something? Plenty of room here for opinions. Your comments are unnecessary.

MyE28.com

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