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Now with more intercooler!

Discussion pertaining to positive pressure E28s.
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turbodan
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Joined: Jan 09, 2007 10:19 PM

Now with more intercooler!

Post by turbodan »

My datalogs indicated that I was getting 140+ degree air temperatures the manifold by the time I shifted into third gear. 40 or 50 degrees above ambient temperature seems sub optimal to me. At the same time, I realize that I cant reasonably fit a larger front mount intercooler. So I found one to replace the cooled side charge pipe, essentially a 180 degree bend under the battery tray before the piping hooks up into the engine compartment:
Image
The core size is at least as large as the primary intercooler, perhaps even larger. So it effectively doubles the amount of heat sinking capacity. With some work I got it to fit acceptably underneath the car and into the existing intercooler and charge piping. I will need to make a valance. The original intercooler would have required modification to fit the stock valance. The additional cooler makes the stock part completely out of the question. I'm beginning to think its just going to be an ugly car.
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I would like to say it made a big difference, but the car barely runs right now, and definitely does not make boost. I screwed up my MS II a week ago, and after spending the last week relfashing and troubleshooting, I finally said "fuck it" and sent it off for repair. I dont know how a jump start would cause my problems, but it became clear in the following days that it was beyond my capabilities. So hopefully it comes back and I can get back out there. I was pretty stoked to whoop that SRT4 that traps 106 on my old configuration. It was running really hard. I really am looking forward to second, third and fourth gears with cooler boost. I'll certainly report back when its kicking ass again. All I need to do is reload my software onto a working MS box and it'll be back in action. Hopefully thats very soon.

It runs pretty crappy on the stock motronic with no AFM input. I hated it all last week, and I will hate it until its Megasquirting again. Oh well.

And heres a picture of some guy in a banana suit talking on the phone.
Image[/i]
Last edited by turbodan on Sep 12, 2007 5:18 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Nebraska_e28
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Post by Nebraska_e28 »

Nice work man! By the looks of it, you wouldn't want to lower the car much & risk beating up all that pricey equip. On the other hand you could probably get away with a stiff enough setup.
Rich Euro M5
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Post by Rich Euro M5 »

IMO,

The added intercooler isn't going to do much if you don't add ducting to redirect air flow through it. It's nothing more than a heat sink of limited value as it will heat soak at some point if you don't get adequate airflow through it.

Rich
Nebraska_e28
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Post by Nebraska_e28 »

Perhaps if he added a front airdam w/custom duct work?
Rich Euro M5
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Post by Rich Euro M5 »

Nebraska_e28 wrote:Perhaps if he added a front airdam w/custom duct work?
That's what he needs. The challange is to build the duct work to effectively channel the air through the intercooler without allowing it to exit under the car. Large airflow under the car can lead to undesirable handling characteristics at high speed. I think he need one of those repo widebody kits.

Rich
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

Rich Euro M5 wrote:IMO,

The added intercooler isn't going to do much if you don't add ducting to redirect air flow through it. It's nothing more than a heat sink of limited value as it will heat soak at some point if you don't get adequate airflow through it.

Rich
With the lack of vertical space in front I couldnt really do much better than that. It is inclined toward the front of the car, and its position under the battery box looks like it'll get at least some external cooling. At 80+ theres enough airflow and turbulence out front to force air through a lot of things. That slight angle should do the trick. Its an improvement, in any case. The datalogs will show just how much of an improvement its good for.
Nebraska_e28
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Post by Nebraska_e28 »

One other option that you may be able to look into is mounting it where the battery is. I believe there's a write-up about this from Duke somewhere in the archives. Of course this would require relocating the battery. Just food for thought. ;)
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

I had considered that at first, way back when I was plotting this whole thing out in 2006. Other than moving the entire battery, making a suitable box and laying cable to make that work, its not too bad. I didnt find it much better than a roughly horizontally mounted cooler under the existing battery tray though. If I were to cut the tray out, it would still be a horizontally mounted cooler, it would just sit a few inches higher, and the plumbing would be a problem. To fit a water-air heat exchanger there is one thing. The air to air cooler and the big fat chargepipes need a little room. This little guy just plugged into my existing plumbing.

I expect to feel a difference. I'll post up some datalogs when its running again. It still wont cool as well as a good air/water intercooler, but its good enough.
Maddog
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Post by Maddog »

Can we say pressure drop?
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

We'll see. I'd be suprised to see more than 1 psi. No big deal.
turbodan
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Oh gawd

Post by turbodan »

Got it running on MS again yesterday. Now, its a different computer than the last time it ran under boost, but running the same .msq file, so it was on the same maps and settings as before. Other than the intercooler, its the same setup.

The first drive actually frightened me. I was not expecting that kind of power. I was datalogging, and the logs showed only 82 degree IAT at the top of second gear. The single cooler was between 140-150 degrees at the top of second gear. On one burst, I wound it up from first through about half of fourth gear. Peak IAT was 92 degrees. I dont have any old datalogs for a first through fourth run, so I dont know how much cooler they were at that point.

So that second cooler dropped the temps about 70 degrees at the top of second gear. Its a violent car through third and fourth. I really cant wait to get back to the dragstrip. I'll see if I can get some video in the mean time. Its incredible.

As far as pressure drop, it was spiking to around 14.5 psi as opposed to about 15, and making on average about 13-14 psi. So its down about .5 psi, if that. Not a problem, considering the incredible urgency the car moves with. The IAT reduction definitely offset the very slight pressure drop.
skip535i
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Post by skip535i »

SUH-WEET!!

Videos or ban :laugh: :laugh:

Sounds like you're paving the way quite well for eta turbos ;)
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

Its not much of an eta at this point. More like homemade M20 turbos. I really like the 2.7i turbo powerband.

I bet your average 535i turbo isnt still flattening your kidneys at 6800 rpm.
Nebraska_e28
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Post by Nebraska_e28 »

turbodan wrote:Its not much of an eta at this point. More like homemade M20 turbos. I really like the 2.7i turbo powerband.

I bet your average 535i turbo isnt still flattening your kidneys at 6800 rpm.
Makes me wish I had one to play with! Just found a super eta (prod 10/87) in the local scrap yard that I wish I'd have asked the previous owner about when I had the chance. Now it has a little front end damage & destined to a life of parts. :?
T_C_D
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Post by T_C_D »

turbodan wrote:Its not much of an eta at this point. More like homemade M20 turbos. I really like the 2.7i turbo powerband.

I bet your average 535i turbo isnt still flattening your kidneys at 6800 rpm.
Neither does a stock cammed m20!
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

T_C_D wrote:
turbodan wrote:Its not much of an eta at this point. More like homemade M20 turbos. I really like the 2.7i turbo powerband.

I bet your average 535i turbo isnt still flattening your kidneys at 6800 rpm.
Neither does a stock cammed m20!
Its got a stock cam. Its not THE stock cam, but its the same 325i cam that came stock in the 2.5.

I guess it would be fair to note that it didnt rev out like it does when I was running the motronic. Megasquirt helped a lot too, but not quite as much as the second intercooler.
Hunter has a Bimmer3
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Post by Hunter has a Bimmer3 »

nice banana suit, nice intercooler setup.
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