Which looked "better" the E12 or E28?

[KingCast]

I just found this old pic of my 528i and I gotta say even with US bumpers a compelling case could be made that the E12 is a more handsome car. It is certainly more svelte.



The post with the tii, the 528i and the 535is is here:

http://christopher-king.blogspot.com/20 ... -bout.html

The case is very crazy; don't even try to understand it but I whipped their butts.[/img]

[JoshInAtlanta]

I like 'em both... just prefer the E12!

Here are my two cars... next time you see the E28 it will be a whole new beast!!!!!

[KingCast]

That Alpineweiss on maroon.... one of my all time favorite BMWs.

I could barely see the silver car (what is it again?) next to the E12 which is part car and part colour scheme. My E12 was an '81 also. Never should have let that go but times were tough.

REALLY tough.

Peace.

[Zaffer]

I prefer the look of the e28 myself. Everything just fits better on it. The e12's turn signal lights are too big! While the e28 is more slim, I like the fat e28. It looks more modern without looking 70's styles, but everyone has their own opinion!

[Justin_FL]

I personally think the E28 is a cleaner, little more "put together" design. The cars are pretty damn close, but what really throws me off about the E12 is the trunk design-- the way it slopes down doesn't look as well balanced front to rear. The E28 has a nicer bee-hind. Kind of like someone that came out of some minor cosmetic surgery, after a nose job and some derriere enhancements.

Although the Euro-spec E12, a la M535i with the huge block of rubber on the back helps considerably; it's a toss-up in that case against a nice Euro E28, IMO!

[JoshInAtlanta]

My own picture is skewed because my E28 is a Euro car with the slim bumpers.

The reason its black/silver is because I replaced the dented hood with a straight hood prior to it shipping off (it's getting completely worked over right now including paint and body work).

[wkohler]

I like them both. Each has their distinct characteristics. My least favorite part about the E28 is the tail lamps. Looking at the two side by side, it's really obvious the E28 is a refresh of the E12.

Oh, Josh - PM incoming.

[Mike W.]

To ask that to someone who has put over 125K on each of them, that's like asking which child do you love more! I like the clamshell hood on the E12 for some reason, and each trunk line has it's points. I do agree that the turn signals should have been done better on the E12.

But it shows what a great design it was, to have come out in 72, with just the most minor of a styling update in the early 80's, then run until 88 model year is astounding. How many cars have had a 15+ year model run with the styling virtually unchanged. Beetles obviously, 911's, Corvettes, and ? Some names have had a long run, Toyota likes to play up the Corolla, but as it started out as a pushrod rear wheel drive car, and is now a sidewinder front driver with a OHC and all, it just isn't the same car at all, just the same name. There would be no visual recognision between the early and late ones.

Of course while we think of it as a classic, not many others do, but it did sell fairly well until the end, so somebody thought it looked ok.

[Justin_FL]

Of course while we think of it as a classic, not many others do, but it did sell fairly well until the end, so somebody thought it looked ok.

I always get a laugh when reading through some of the first reviews of the E28, where the author mentions how the E28 was already dated looking in 1982 because of its similarity to the E12.

But hey, the Bangle-ized Bimmers of today keep selling by the boatloads. To paraphrase an interview of Chris Bangle, what do us lay people know about car design? Yeah...

[bmwfan1957]

I personally like the E28 a lot... and the e12 very little... But i like the boxyness of the e28 and the e12 doesn't really have the same appeal to me...

[RonW]

...it shows what a great design it was, to have come out in 72, with just the most minor of a styling update in the early 80's, then run until 88 model year is astounding.

1972? Take a look at the New Six 2500 e3 from 1968.

This was the first car (along with the e9) to use the M30 engine, and the first to come with a tool kit. The C-pillar vents look more like the e28's than the e12's.

And remember, the whole sharky, sharp-edged motif dated back to the New Class 1500 which came out in 1962, back in the dying gasps of the giant tail fin era.

So that's a basic look that lasted over 25 years. And BMW applied it across their whole model line- small, medium and large; two-door and four-door, and it went out with a bang- the e24 embraced the look, and is in no way an exercise in reminiscence.

The look had run its course, not because BMW ran out of ideas, but because they had other ideas- the e28's and e23's successors, the e34 and e32, were a shot across the bow of BMW's next target- Mercedes Benz.

[Kenny Blankenship]

Sorry, I have to go with the E12. I actually don't like the rear lights of the E28 and I like the sloping deck (just like the E23!).

I also like the front hinged hood (though I realize it doesn't help access to certain front end components).

[a]

Yup , I consider the E 12 , better looking than the E 28. I prefer the raked deck lid and the chrome door handles. But the E 12 is purty near extinct in MA, it fell victim to tinworm. Outside of a show, you just dont see 'em

[BRRV]

I've owned both over the years (and if memory serves, the E12 was heavier than the E28, at least according to the GVW sticker from my '81 528i). Superb cars, for different reasons. My personal preference is for the E28. I think the trunk and the lights work better together in the 3/4 view on that model. From the back, though, straight on, the E12 is more organic, and the tailights seem to be better integrated and better looking. I think I just prefer the higher appearance of the E28 at the back, tailights notwithstanding.

E12's are more common here than you'd think. There is one for sale up at the local bimmer repair shop that is in excellent condition, same year and color as the one I let get away. Not that I need another BMW!

[Mike W.]

1972? Take a look at the New Six 2500 e3 from 1968.

I would, but that's not one. It's a later one, with the rear vents like E28's. The early ones had vents on the "C" pilar, much like E12's



Of course I had one of them too, LOL. So I know all about the heritage. And while E3's had their faults, such as the Zenith carbs and a point type distributor, they may have been further ahead of the competition than either E12's or E28's. An exceptionally roomy car with a great engine and suspension for the day. Heater and A/C were weak, but the interior was very roomy and the trunk was so big when a friend first saw mine, he climbed right in and laid down, claiming it as a new sleeping quarters.

[bmwfan1957]

...and the trunk was so big when a friend first saw mine, he climbed right in and laid down, claiming it as a new sleeping quarters.

Hahaha Wow... that brings back some memories from my stupid days...

[Azure]

How many cars have had a 15+ year model run with the styling virtually unchanged.

How about the venerable ol' Volvo 244/240.

A quick search yields production dates from 74-93.


My 76 520i will always be my first love, sleek euro bumpers, 4-spd manual tranny and mechanical fuel injection, she was an underpowered sled of a car.... but oh so much fun. That said, my current 535is complete with Mtech finery and audacious rims...... I could never go back.

[wkohler]

How many cars have had a 15+ year model run with the styling virtually unchanged.

How about the venerable ol' Volvo 244/240.

A quick search yields production dates from 74-93.

Actually, the 240 was more or less a refresh of the 140 series. The 140 series is like the E21 of the Volvo world. People either want the 120 series (aka Amazon) or the 240 series. The actual production span was from 1969 to 1993. All that was changed from the initial 140 series was the inclusion of MacPherson struts in the front, the vent windows front and rear eliminated, 4-wheel discs all around, AC was standard (in the US) and a 4-speed w/ OD trans was introduced. The 5mph impact bumpers we're all so fond of were a worldwide thing, introduced in 1973. There was even a retrofit kit available from Volvo for the 120 series. The 160 series was the same as the 144, just with a 6-cylinder motor and disgusting front-end styling.

[Azure]

How many cars have had a 15+ year model run with the styling virtually unchanged.

How about the venerable ol' Volvo 244/240.

A quick search yields production dates from 74-93.

Actually, the 240 was more or less a refresh of the 140 series. The 140 series is like the E21 of the Volvo world. People either want the 120 series (aka Amazon) or the 240 series. The actual production span was from 1969 to 1993. All that was changed from the initial 140 series was the inclusion of MacPherson struts in the front, the vent windows front and rear eliminated, 4-wheel discs all around, AC was standard (in the US) and a 4-speed w/ OD trans was introduced. The 5mph impact bumpers we're all so fond of were a worldwide thing, introduced in 1973. There was even a retrofit kit available from Volvo for the 120 series. The 160 series was the same as the 144, just with a 6-cylinder motor and disgusting front-end styling.

Yeah, true, I wasn't going to include the 140 as I thought it was different enough, but by that token, the E28/E12 are different enough too. Good call!

I always thought the 242 was a cool looking car. The 262... uh.. not so much.

[DMNaskale]

I personally think the E28 is a cleaner, little more "put together" design. The cars are pretty damn close, but what really throws me off about the E12 is the trunk design-- the way it slopes down doesn't look as well balanced front to rear. The E28 has a nicer bee-hind. Kind of like someone that came out of some minor cosmetic surgery, after a nose job and some derriere enhancements.

Although the Euro-spec E12, a la M535i with the huge block of rubber on the back helps considerably; it's a toss-up in that case against a nice Euro E28, IMO!

Yeah, well said, that pretty much sums it up for me, too. Unless a really special one turned up at my doorstep, the existance of the E28 leaves me with no desire at all to own an E12. Too similar yet clearly inferior. I really want another E3 some day, though.

[stranter]

...But it shows what a great design it was, to have come out in 72, with just the most minor of a styling update in the early 80's, then run until 88 model year is astounding. How many cars have had a 15+ year model run with the styling virtually unchanged...

Off topic...

The Mini - 1959-2000
The Range Rover - 1970-1994
The Leyland Sherpa - 1974-2006
The Leyland Convoy - 1984-2006
The Austin Metro - 1980 -1998

We're great at this sort of stuff in the UK!

Back on topic, in Euro form I prefer the E12, in US form I prefer the E28.

Stewart

[KingCast]

I dunno..... to say one is clearly inferior, wouldn't go that far. Different animals. What was interesting was the E28 interiors in E12 cars, there are a few of those!

Also having a look at an E34 530i (no engine problems) but would actually rather stick with an E28 535i; I love the Big Six.

[Adam W in MN]

Hehe.......... what a fun thread.

Bill (Wiseguy) almost got me in the E28 camp by getting my name picked for the 528e at 5erFest 2007! I got so many comments from a bunch of you like "We finally got you in the E28 camp!!". Too bad I found an owner in more need of an E28 very quickly when I talked to Shawn D.

The E12 will always do it for me but I still find an E28 to be handsome from the outside. The E12 lines, clamshell hood, and the droopy trunk get me all hot and bothered. My major, major beef with the E28 is the interior dashboard design. Especially the box around the HVAC controls. I hate it, sorry. The only E28 that could make me get over the interior issues is a euro E28 M5. Soooo nice. The E28 is definitely a better screwed together car and makes the E12 feel like a crude and raw dinosaur of a sedan. But in some guises..... aka E12 M535i, that raw feeling is so much fun.

Although the Euro-spec E12, a la M535i with the huge block of rubber on the back helps considerably; it's a toss-up in that case against a nice Euro E28, IMO!

Agreed.

[KingCast]

The E12 will always do it for me but I still find an E28 to be handsome from the outside. The E12 lines, clamshell hood, and the droopy trunk get me all hot and bothered.

....Somewhere I had a link to the original design of the E12 and it had the clay models on it. The car was I believe designed by Bertone and was in concept even more angular than it appeared in final form. I'll see if I can find that stuff.

I mispoke slightly, from First Fives:

http://www.firstfives.org/

The styling of the E-12 was done by French stylist Paul Bracq. He had joined BMW after leaving Mercedes. For the E-12, he drew inspiration from the 1970 Bertone designed coupe styling exercise called Garmisch that was based on the 2002.

[BMWCCA2]

Sorry, what was the question?

[BMWgiant]

BMWCCA2

I agree that is an amazing E12, I've got some pictures of that car from 5er Fest '07:




Although that is an amazing example, I still must say that I prefer the shape and body structure as well as interior of the E28! Comparing Euro models, and you have a close race but when looking at US bumpers, the E28 blows the E12 out of the water!! The accordion side bumper panels on the E12 really blow it for me!

[C.R. Krieger]

How many cars have had a 15+ year model run with the styling virtually unchanged.

How about the venerable ol' Volvo 244/240.

A quick search yields production dates from 74-93.

Actually, the 240 was more or less a refresh of the 140 series. The actual production span was from 1969 to 1993.

1967. I owned a '68 144S. And, yes, the 140 series was at least as closely related to the 240 series as the E12 is to the E28. If you were to hack off the front and rear clips & suspensions of either pair, it would be very difficult to distinguish between them (except for the BMW's roof vent panels).

The Volvo 164's 'nose-job-to-stick-in-a-larger-engine' trick has showed up several other places, including the BMW 2000CS's transformation to the E9 and Toyota's first Supra made out of a long-nosed Celica.

[wkohler]

Right, right right right right.

There were two years of overlap of the 120 and 140 series. I often forget that.

[LA]

I'm struggling here, for the same reason I've never understood beauty contests. They are all good, great, wonderful and beautiful -- just different. I guess I've lusted for every one I've ever seen.

I mean E12s & E28s of course. You did not think I meant beauty contest contestants did you?

[KingCast]

I'm struggling here, for the same reason I've never understood beauty contests. They are all good, great, wonderful and beautiful -- just different. I guess I've lusted for every one I've ever seen.

No contests, just comments. That's why "better" is in quotes.

No then since the Volvo thing has come up a few times I have to admit I owned one, a '74 142E and there have been 15 in our family.

http://christopher-king.blogspot.com/20 ... emory.html

Dig the old pics; especially the dashboard of the old 144. That's the view I had every day from 1967 to 1974

PS: The dealership referenced is/was Jaguar-Cleveland Volvo BMW British Leyland. As a kid I knew more about each of those cars than the salesmen. Behold the lovely arse of the Vintage E-Type:

http://christopher-king.blogspot.com/20 ... guars.html

Ciao.