Turbo Shaft Play. How Much = Too Much?

[GregATL]

I have been having a little odd squealing noise from my turbo pretty much since I installed it. I just thought it was an air whistle as it only happens under light throttle and not worried too much about it. I spoke with Todd about it in the past and he seemed to concur with that idea.

Having been around Kyles car a good bit and driven it some I've noticed his doesn't make this noise at all. Sure you can hear the wastegate and the rush of air it creates when driving his car but mine makes a long low woooooooooooooooing noise. Lately it seems to have gotten more prevalent. It will do it right off idle seemingly before the rpm's even pick up.

So I spoke with Todd again about it he suggested I take a look at the inlet of the turbo for shaft play. I found what I feel to be a significant amount. I wasn't able to actually quantify it as I don't have the tools with me here in Texas to do that but it was significant enough it felt like it was rocking back and forth in the housing. This is up and down movement not in and out. If I had to try to give an accurate guess (oxymoron?) I'd say more than 1/16" play.

Any thoughts?

[turbodan]

Oil cooled journal bearing turbos usually have what I feel is an excessive amount of shaft play. Even with oil in them they feel sloppy to me.

Since its hard to say exactly whats okay and whats worn out, I look at the relationship between the compressor and turbine wheels and thier housings. The wheels should not be able to touch thier housings under any circumstances. If they scrape, your bearings are toast. Just eyeballing it, I'd say about 15 thousandths of an inch is acceptable clearance between the compressor wheel blades and its housing. If it gets much closer than that, I'd say the shaft bearings are excessively worn. There should be a visible gap.

Ball bearings turbos are more like it. They still have a little play, but I dont worry about it, because I know that it will never evAr wear out.

[GregATL]

Ball bearing turbos are certainly an improvement. I have one in mind when it's time for the next generation setup (optimized engine internals). That'll be awhile maybe never. If I have to buy another turbo for any reason then it will definitely happen at that time.

I suppose I really need to get some exact measurements on the amount of play. It wasn't like this when I installed it. Doesn't seem to be leaking oil however. That's a good sign.

[Pat P]

I have been having a little odd squealing noise from my turbo pretty much since I installed it. I just thought it was an air whistle as it only happens under light throttle and not worried too much about it. I spoke with Todd about it in the past and he seemed to concur with that idea.

Having been around Kyles car a good bit and driven it some I've noticed his doesn't make this noise at all. Sure you can hear the wastegate and the rush of air it creates when driving his car but mine makes a long low woooooooooooooooing noise. Lately it seems to have gotten more prevalent. It will do it right off idle seemingly before the rpm's even pick up.

So I spoke with Todd again about it he suggested I take a look at the inlet of the turbo for shaft play. I found what I feel to be a significant amount. I wasn't able to actually quantify it as I don't have the tools with me here in Texas to do that but it was significant enough it felt like it was rocking back and forth in the housing. This is up and down movement not in and out. If I had to try to give an accurate guess (oxymoron?) I'd say more than 1/16" play.

Any thoughts?

From my experience with shaft play....there comes a point where up and down movement becomes an issue, just as in and out, because the shaft can drag to one side under boost just as it can be pushed in and out. In our camp if shaft play in any form becomes too noticable we repair or replace the turbo....

more than 1/16" is a sign of weakening....

[GregATL]

Pat, your experience is highly valued. This is a newish turbo so I'm just trying to determine where to go with this issue. I have to drive this car from Houston to Lynchburg next weekend and want to avoid any costly issues. i.e. metal on metal contact.

Thanks.

[Pat P]

Pat, your experience is highly valued. This is a newish turbo so I'm just trying to determine where to go with this issue. I have to drive this car from Houston to Lynchburg next weekend and want to avoid any costly issues. i.e. metal on metal contact.

Thanks.

The way I always look at it is an ounce of prevention is bettter than a pound of cure.....if it is on your mind that much have it checked out.....it may be nothing it maybe something....but better safe than sorry. Because we are not there to feel the amount of play you refer to.

I had a turbo 3 days old seize up on me while accelerating into a merge on the freeway talk about a scary feeling.....with the loss of power & turbo failure at a critical moment...so new newish or old makes no nevermind .....

[Bill in MN]

I had perhaps 5,000 mi. on mine when I noticed the play getting excessive. Without oil flowing around the bearing surface a bit of play should be expected but when it got to the point of leaking badly I knew something was not right.

Todd, being the stand up kinda guy he is, took care of getting it rebuilt for me and there have been no issues since. Now if I could only get the asshat that built my driveshaft to stand behind his products like Todd does

[Mark 88/M5 Houston]

Greg: I have a dial indicator setup that you are welcome to use. PM or Email me for more direct contact info.

[GregATL]

I spoke with Todd this morning and all is well. I am not assuming it is a warranty item yet. If it turns out it is it will be handled. I need to check my idle oil pressure before I can say the problem was not my fault. Car has spent some time in stop and go traffic so if it's not getting enough oil well you get the picture. I never had any concerns of who's fault this and that. Things break. Oh well. Deal with it and move forwards. I just needed some input on the turbo as it seemed out of spec but I wasn't comfortable answering the question myself with the experience I have.

[Jimmie G]

Greg I can come take a look if you want and let you know what I think. Let me know.

Jimmie

[sommy]

Can you take a video clip or a sound clip to get a better idea of the sound, I may be able to help.

[GregATL]

Update on this. With everything out of the car and the car at home I was able to get some measurements on this.

I removed the compressor housing for this test. The ambient temperature is about 50* F . Turbo is uninstalled from the car at this point. The shaft up and down movement measured out to .023".

This seems pretty excessive to me. With the compressor housing still on, the blades of the wheel almost contact the housing when moved to one side or the other.

Just thought I'd share this bit of info. Even at this amount of play there is no evidence of blade to housing contact.

[turbodan]

23 thousandths doesnt sound extreme, but it does sound like its a little on the loose side. Might be time for a rebuild kit, now that its relatively convenient.