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Blowed Up!

Discussion pertaining to positive pressure E28s.
GregATL
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Blowed Up!

Post by GregATL »

Well I hate it that it happened but my motor is toast. Total boat anchor. The big D. At first I thought it was just a head gasket but it's much, much worse.

Image
That's the combustion chamber for cylinder #6 moments after I pulled the head off today. It's really hammered badly. Head is not salvageable without extensive welding to build up damaged area and then resurfacing. Ouch.

Image
In this picture which is admittedly kind of dark you can see the melted piston and exposed upper compression ring. What you can't see is the 3 inch long crack in the cylinder wall about a half inch below the deck of the block. Nothing good here.

Remarkably cylinders 1-5 are in exceptionally good to excellent shape with none of the signs of detonation that #6 has. This has me somewhat puzzled. I originally thought I was just having a hard time tuning it out but I really have my FMU cranked up right now. I am beginning to think I may have been having a fuel delivery problem on # 6 for a little while now. I'll have to figure out if the injector for # 6 was firing consistently. Could be a problem with the wiring harness.

Oh well. Lessons learned the hard way. I'll get more/better pictures when it's not freezing outside. I was a little chilled by the time I got the head off.

I am now looking for a good M30B35. I want one from an e24. If any of ya'll know where one is pm me.
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

Shit.

I was lifting the head off of 5 and 6 on my motor. Mostly 6. I think the rear cylinders run a little hotter from the nature of the design of the inline six. But this looks like it might have been due to more than that.

Did you hear any detonation?
T_C_D
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Post by T_C_D »

That really sucks Greg. I have a m30b35 from an e34 available.

Thanks for not blaming the turbo kit!

Top end pulls are kinda tough on a motor.

Todd
Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy »

That's no fun, sorry to hear it. Good excuse for a nice buildup though. Can JE/TCD supply one piston to match the other 5?

Out of curiosity, how much boost were you running? Any possibility that you locked up that one injector with too much fuel pressure?

Jeremy
GregATL
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Post by GregATL »

Jeremy, I have been running 1 bar since May. Did the injector lock up? Perhaps. As much fuel pressure as I've dialed in trying to eliminate detonation it's possible. Since my gauge is under the hood and only viewed while on the dyno I don't know exactly where it's at right now. I'd say at least 80 psi.

It's obvious to me I've only been detonating on this one cylinder. The other five look great.

In case you missed it in the text the cylinder wall is cracked. No need to get a new piston.

This is where a standalone with datalogging would prove useful in determining cause and effect. I don't know exactly what failed first. I do know I lost my signal to the FMU at some point. The hose was loose when I started disasembling the engine. When the headgasket failed it broke the plastic " T " in the coolant lines due to a pressure spike in the cooling system. This could have caused the meltdown on # 6 as the coolant level dropped. I wouldn't have known becasue the last 3 coolant level sensors I've bought all brand new have been faulty so my light is always on. I have checked it with a known good sensor and know my check panel is working properly. I just can't get a good level sensor.

The things I've learned and won't ever take for granted from now on;

Don't rely on push on hose fittings. Even when zip tied they will blow off under boost. Use threaded or suitable high pressure hose connections period.

If you don't have reliable sensors keep replacing them until you do. I quit trying and it left me blind to a very important operating parameter that failed.

Your ego will blow up your car faster than any weakness in your car itself. I spanked a very well built very fast car twice pulling from 80-160. The third time was too much.

So now it's time to put it back together and not do stupid things again.
Duke
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Post by Duke »

So sorry Greg, I really feel for you.

Good luck with what you decide to do.
johnnye23
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Post by johnnye23 »

Bummer Greg, sent ya a PM. Johnny
Jeremy
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Re: Blowed Up!

Post by Jeremy »

GregATL wrote:Image
That piston isn't damaged? :? Sure looks like it's missing an edge there. I don't think I should be able to see the top of the ring.

Good for you if it isn't damaged.

Jeremy
Shawn D.
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Re: Blowed Up!

Post by Shawn D. »

GregATL wrote:In case you missed it in the text the cylinder wall is cracked. No need to get a new piston.
Jeremy wrote:That piston isn't damaged? :? Sure looks like it's missing an edge there. I don't think I should be able to see the top of the ring.

Good for you if it isn't damaged.
Oh, he said it was damaged: "In this picture which is admittedly kind of dark you can see the melted piston and exposed upper compression ring." By saying "No need to get a new piston," I think he meant getting a new piston is a moot point.

Sorry to see this has happened to your engine, Greg! :cry:
Duke
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Re: Blowed Up!

Post by Duke »

Jeremy wrote:That piston isn't damaged? :? Sure looks like it's missing an edge there. I don't think I should be able to see the top of the ring.

Good for you if it isn't damaged.
Little harsh Jeremy, don't you think? RTFP dude.
Jeremy
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Re: Blowed Up!

Post by Jeremy »

Duke wrote:
Jeremy wrote:That piston isn't damaged? :? Sure looks like it's missing an edge there. I don't think I should be able to see the top of the ring.

Good for you if it isn't damaged.
Little harsh Jeremy, don't you think? RTFP dude.
No, my post was not harsh. "RTFP" is though, and I don't appreciate it. My reading and comprehension skills are perfectly adequate.

He has a cracked cylinder bore in one cylinder, and what looks to be one messed up piston in addition that busted head. If he were to build a new motor, tell me exactly why he'd want to use the stock pistons in his new (used) block when he has a set of forged ones that could be installed easily? This is why I asked about the possibility of getting a single piston and why his statement that he doesn't need that piston strikes me as extremely odd.

Am I the only one that sees no reason to scrap 5 perfectly usable forged pistons?

Jeremy
T_C_D
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Post by T_C_D »

Jeremy,

I believe Greg's car had the original stock short block.

Todd
Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy »

T_C_D wrote:Jeremy,

I believe Greg's car had the original stock short block.

Todd
Ahhh, that may be where I went wrong. I couldn't see a dish in the pictures and figured it was a flat top forged piston.

Nevermind, carry on. Greg, sSorry for the brief hijack and any hard feelings.

Jeremy
Mark 88/M5 Houston
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Post by Mark 88/M5 Houston »

Damn Greg. Not a good outcome for the first turbo motor in your E28. Let us know when you make it back to Houston.
chrism
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Post by chrism »

Congratulations!!

Finally someonebeat my damage to a M30 bottom end. I only managed to crack some pistons...You went and cracked the F'in block!! :banana:
JoshInAtlanta
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Post by JoshInAtlanta »

Greg... hope you get your killer car back on the road again soon.

Looking forward to hanging out and learning from you on your next gig in ATL....
skip535i
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Post by skip535i »

O MAN! Geez dood am I sorry to hear this.

Call me when you have some time, would love to catch up!
Damon in STL
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Post by Damon in STL »

Sorry to hear it "blow'd up". I have a M106 (with oil squirters) still sitting in my garage. If you want to go that route......


Damon in STL
SilverBullet
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Post by SilverBullet »

Are u able to get these blocks bored and sleeved?
Kyle in NO
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Post by Kyle in NO »

SilverBullet wrote:Are u able to get these blocks bored and sleeved?
Not worth the effort when you can pick up a used engine for $200....
Good & Tight
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Post by Good & Tight »

Was this a completely stock engine?
Kyle in NO
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Post by Kyle in NO »

Stock B34 bottom end with B35 top end....stock other than the turbo setup...
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

So this was the low low compression configuration?
booker
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Post by booker »

You must have lost an injector.

That sucks, but you have to pust the limits to know where the edge is, huh? :alright:

Good luck getting it all back together.
GregATL
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Post by GregATL »

Sorry I've been absent on this thread the last couple days but it's a busy time here this past weekend. No time for computers.

Yes this was the ultra-low compression motor but at 15psi it was effectively about 15:1.

Yes the engine was/is a stock 244,xxx mile b34 with a b35 head , MLS and ARP studs I installed at 230,xxx miles. Turbo went on at 235,xxx miles.

I believe it would still be fine after my rather aggressive driving if I had addressed the things mentioned earlier. One other thing I left out, plastic in the cooling system isn't reliable enough. Replace often or replace with metal.

More pictures to come.
GregATL
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Post by GregATL »

As promised more pictures.
Image
Part of the cylinder wall crack.

Image
At 244,xxx miles these were in great shape overall.

Image
Yep it's hammered. Looks like some foreign object got in there and beat on it.

I'm going to post the pictures of cylinders 1-6 in that order just so you can see how consistent and good 1-5 look. It makes me think something was amiss on #6.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

From my perspective/opinion the condition of the pistons seems very good with a nice clean area where the fuel enters the cylinder gradually fading to a dark color where on the side of the exhaust. No carbon buildup to speak of. Just one horribly mangled piston and cylinder.

I am sure there is a lesson here I just don't know all of it yet besides the obvious.
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

Despite the hell going on in #6 it looks like the MLS HG held up fine. Pretty cool.
Brad D.
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Post by Brad D. »

turbodan wrote:Despite the hell going on in #6 it looks like the MLS HG held up fine. Pretty cool.
The MLS HG definitely held up, so well in fact, that the blowtorch-like gasses took the past of least resistance which turned out to be the ring land. Pretty graphic example of what can happen when it all goes wrong for whatever reason. It is interesting though that most of the damage is located under both of the quench areas of the head. You can even see where it had begun to erode the piston on the opposite side from where it completely failed, which is under the other quench pad (not the totally wasted one), which also shows the telltale chisel-like marks of detonation.
Duke
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Post by Duke »

Have your injectors and connections tested and then you will know for sure.
GregATL
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Post by GregATL »

Duke wrote:Have your injectors and connections tested and then you will know for sure.
This is the next step in determining what really happened. I know this much. I will not run it again until after I have verified that these are in perfect working order.

At this point I am thinking I was losing fuel on #6. Not too much as I rarely if ever had any detonation. A bit here and there at the torque peak and above but somewhat inconsistent. I thought I could tune it out with more fuel but that may have not been the case. Over 130 mph the wind noise masked the sounds of detonation. Stupid me.
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