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My new TCD manifold and turbo arrived today.

Discussion pertaining to positive pressure E28s.
turbodan
Posts: 9246
Joined: Jan 09, 2007 10:19 PM

My new TCD manifold and turbo arrived today.

Post by turbodan »

Scroll down for updates

It took a while, a few weeks longer than it was supposed to, but it did finally arrive. Despite the wait I'm definitely satisfied with it. I've never seen welds and craftsmanship quite like this. It looks far more efficient than the turbodiesel manifold. We'll see if it runs any better when it goes back together.
Last edited by turbodan on Dec 28, 2007 7:59 PM, edited 2 times in total.
Kyle in NO
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Location: Nasty Orleans------> Batten-Rooehjch------>More Souther LA

Post by Kyle in NO »

Pics!!!
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

Well, okay
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Jays535is
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Post by Jays535is »

Nice! Appears to be a pussy magnet as well :rofl:
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

Dont mind the little bastard cat. I cant touch a single thing in the apartment without him running over and trying to eat it.
Brad D.
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Post by Brad D. »

Looks good man, it'll be interesting to see any gains that come from your new addition. It nothing else, maybe plug changes and valve adjustments will be easier.
5verflyATL
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Location: Atl, Georgia

Post by 5verflyATL »

Hey,
I am a little confused as to the function... What is the purpose of the manifold adaptor?
Jays535is
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Location: Spokane

Post by Jays535is »

5verflyATL wrote:Hey,
I am a little confused as to the function... What is the purpose of the manifold adaptor?
You use the stock M20 exhaust manifolds and this bolts up to those.
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

You should have seen the stack of T25 flanges I was using with the td manifold. It worked, but it was far from ideal. It leaked constantly, looked shitty and obivously made maintenence suck.
landspeed
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Post by landspeed »

Are "i" and "e" manifolds different?
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

Yeah. They're smaller inside with longer primary ports. e28 eta cars got two front manifolds, while e30 eta cars got a front and rear manifold, which come together in the middle between 3 and 4. Late e28 etas with the super eta motor got the front and rear 2.5i manifolds, which are directly interchangeable with eta manifolds but are much larger inside with shorter primary ports.

The biggest difference is that you cant easily get a socket on the top row of nuts with standard eta manifolds. They're cast with a little upward curve to make the primary ports longer, while 2.5i manifolds come straight out. I felt a difference when I swapped them out on my old white car. Going from eta to i manifolds smoothed out the motor from 5500 and up and noticeably changed the sound of the engine.

The eta manifolds were taken from the 2 liter m20, which is what they were designed for as far as I know. The e28 eta also used the rear exhaust system from the 520i. The undersized components worked with the eta motor to help bottom end power. The 2.5i manifolds were designed specifically for that engine, and to "conform with the general engine concept". Just looking at the two side by side, the differences are very noticeable. I had some pictures somewhere. If I find them I'll post them up.
EKG
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Post by EKG »

turbodan wrote:Well, okay
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Oh thats filth! :shock: In the best way :banana:
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

That merge collector is pretty sweet. :alright:
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

I guess this little monkey isn't so e28 friendly. I've been working on the frame for about an hour, and I've decided that the manifold is going to have to make a little room too. I'm okay with a flat spot here and there...

A bottom mount TCD manifold sounds pretty damn good when I'm out there in mid 30 degree weather hammering the living shit out of things trying to make this all go together. Pretty damn good indeed.

And I havent even started making the downpipe yet, which will be as long as it possibly can with a front-top mounted turbo. :x
chrism
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Post by chrism »

:rofl:
turbodan wrote: ...hammering the living shit out of things trying to make this all go together.
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

Yeah, f this manifold. Its just not happening. At least now we know that the 666Fab M20 manifolds dont fit the e28 chassis. Good thing I "only" spent 380 bucks and four weeks waiting on nothing.


The turbo sold this afternoon, I get paid on tuesday. I'm looking forward to getting it done right.
:D
Kyle in NO
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Post by Kyle in NO »

Damn, you'd think an E28 would have lots more room than an E30 would...sux.
Brad D.
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Post by Brad D. »

Sucks you had to be the e28 fitment victim. My brother almost purchased one for his super-e. I guess now we know it wont work. I take it you are going with a TCD setup - what turbo are you going to use?
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

Just getting it over the studs was a bitch. It has to go on there assembled with the manifolds because the tubing blocks one of the nuts on each flange. Theres no way you'd get a wrench on the nuts with the whole thing in the car. I ended up putting a few flat spots on the manifold itself in conjunction with the beating on the frame rails, and it finally went on. If I welded up a spacer to move the turbine flange up and more horizontal it might have bolted up, but its quite close to the ignition wires and I still dont know if it would have been far enough from the brake lines to be safe. I would have liked to clock the compressor outlet down through the bottom, but its tight with the exhaust manifolds. I was looking for something that would bolt on and fit right. It could possibly have been made to work, but it was going to be just as sketchy as the turbo diesel manifold. Kinda defeats the purpose.

I am going with a TCD manifold. The turbo will be a T04E 50 trim. It flows more than the 54 and 57 trim and just about as much as the 60 trim but with a lower surge limit. I'm stoked on the upgrade to a legitimate log style manifold and an external wastegate. I expect noticeable gains from the freer flowing T4 frame turbo as well. Even if it runs just about the same at least I wont be pulling the turbo for valve adjustments and plugs. And it wont leak exhaust gases or cook the hell out of everything in the engine compartment like the top mount. Its looking good...
Brad D.
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Post by Brad D. »

When do you anticipate getting all of your new TCD stuff? I guess it'll be a good winter project, despite the whole cold, wet, lay-under-the-car-in-freezing-cold-winter part. 50 trim should be a nice match. I was bored and roughly mapped out a 2.7L m20 against the 50 trim comp map. The psig labels are assuming sea level, which you are higher than though. Eitherway, the PR give you the right idea
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turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

The TCD stuff arrived today. Looks great, as expected.

I'm going to haul ass out of here at about 2:30 and see if I can get it running tonight.

The altitude difference just requires a higher pressure ratio for the same flow. So the compressor is more likely to surge. The 50 trim is great at sea level, but to run 14 psi (28.7 MAP) up here requires a PR of about 2.3. 18 psi (32.7 MAP) requires a PR of about 2.6. It should be alright though.
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

And some more pictars:
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In the car, looking good, except for the disagreement between the compressor inlet and the oil filter:
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This doesnt present a huge problem, I'll just grind the little tab off so it can be re clocked out of the way. The one on there is from an M10/S14 engine, and it allows the whole assembly to fit flat against the head, but it still eclipses the compressor inlet to a very considerable extent. Theres that, and that its much smaller than the stock M20 filter, which I dont like. Other than that, the oil drain looks like it might work as is, so it should run tomorrow.
Kyle in NO
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Post by Kyle in NO »

Bitchin'...I must also attest to the quality of the TCD components...very nice...

No ceramic coating?
Last edited by Kyle in NO on Dec 28, 2007 9:47 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Brad D.
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Post by Brad D. »

Awesome man, the car is going to haul ass. You seem very motivated to get it done. ;)
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

Motivated? Yah.

No ceramic coating, more due to a matter of time than anything else. Theres a place in town that does good work, but I'd rather get it going this weekend than wait to get anything else done.
Nebraska_e28
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Post by Nebraska_e28 »

Looking great! I'll say this is definitely more fuel to my flame in getting the $$ together to go FI.
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

The turbo, wastegate and manifold went in yesterday. The oil lines are plumbed, the chargepipes are pretty much done.

The e30 downpipe wasnt going to work. It had an almost 90 degree bend out of the turbine and another almost 90 degree bend out the bottom. The wastegate dump hit the front thrust arm mount on the frame, and the upper and lower bends interfered with the firewall and swaybar. So I cut it off right at the flange and put a couple of 45 degree elbows clocked to keep the pipe close to the block and tranny. I'll post some pictars later.

It would have been running tonight if I didnt spend so much time trying to make the e30 downpipe work. Oh well. All I have left to do is put some clamps on the chargepipes and find a way to stick a filter on the turbo inlet pipe. Then it'll need a valve adjust and a retorque on the head bolts, and it should be good to go.
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

And its done. I just need to pop the valve cover off and retorque the studs. It ran up to temp at idle, and I was rather suprised to find a little bit of milkshake on the dipstick and oil filler cap. I'm hoping this is left over gunk. I did an oil change after the head was off, but that was dead cold 20-50, so I'm sure I didnt get it all out. Hopefully the gunk is gone after a few drives.

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It looks like I can put the coolant reservoir back in the stock location with the TCD manifold. I'd like that. In the next few weeks I'll probably finish up the chargepipes a bit more and get rid of some of the silicome couplers. I cant wait to go drive iit. I wonder what spring that wastegate came with...
Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy »

turbodan wrote:I wonder what spring that wastegate came with...
If you didn't specify when ordering, I'm fairly certain Todd uses a 0.5 or 0.6 bar spring by default.

Jeremy
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

That thing runs hard with the new equipment. The spool and boost threshold are about the same as before, but it hits so much harder. The top end power is down right wicked. I'll check the datalogs to see what kind of boost it was running. It was definitely a lot less than before. Its a lot faster though. Thats the good news. The bad news?

Solid white goo on the bottom of the oil filler cap. Even a little more down in the head. Coolant level dropped from the full level line to the point it tripped the switch after about 5 pulls. I'm thinking its got a cracked head. I let it idle up to temp and retorqued the head studs before running boost, it was running on a fresh oil change. Theres just no reason for the coolant loss and water in the oil, other than a cracked head. That is a swift kick in balls.

At least the fabrication is all done, and its just a simple head swap at this point, that is assuming it is the head itself and not a cracked block. The head makes too much sense though. I didnt see any cracks when it came apart, but you wont always see them. So I guess I'll park it for a little while and look for a new head.

Gay.
Last edited by turbodan on Jan 20, 2008 9:36 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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