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Looks like the FI index is dead or dying.
Looks like the FI index is dead or dying.
With TCD and Sweeney gone along with most of their supporters, most of the Turbo cars (TCD stuff or not) broken or sold, this index has become a ghost town.
This leads to my poll, is a after market turboed E28 a hit to its value or not?
This leads to my poll, is a after market turboed E28 a hit to its value or not?
Last edited by Duke on Jan 11, 2008 8:36 PM, edited 2 times in total.
Looks like you left a few options out of the poll.
And since when is this a ghost town? Your lack of participation certainly hasnt hurt the forum. You should probably seek out different methods of slinging shit. Its pretty much played out around here.
That said, I'd have no problem buying an e28 just because it was turbocharged. If the owner was a Dukebag I wouldn't buy the car anyway, bone stock or turbocharged. If the seller obviously took care of the car and did good work on it, I'd have no reservations.
And since when is this a ghost town? Your lack of participation certainly hasnt hurt the forum. You should probably seek out different methods of slinging shit. Its pretty much played out around here.
That said, I'd have no problem buying an e28 just because it was turbocharged. If the owner was a Dukebag I wouldn't buy the car anyway, bone stock or turbocharged. If the seller obviously took care of the car and did good work on it, I'd have no reservations.
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I noticed that too. He has yet to update his website and he appears to making the same promises over on the Bfc that it's coming soon. How long did we hear that before he fled ?Jays535is wrote:TCD is over on Bfc pimping the e36 crowd.
I also have to wonder about Todd's skills as a business person. If I was a prospective customer for one of his kits, and noticed his website still has a 2006 Catalog in early 2008, I'd wonder about the company's viability and whether I should take a chance on spending big bucks for a turbo kit.
My WAG is Todd figured out that he's pretty much reached market saturation in the E28 world. Those with the $$$s wanting to purchase his kit have done so. So he's now going after the youngsters in the E36 chassis that are lusting for more power.
Just my $.02.
Rich
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Well, you question his abilities as a businessman, then note that he's gone where the business is. Hmmmm ....Rich Euro M5 wrote:I noticed that too. He has yet to update his website and he appears to making the same promises over on the Bfc that it's coming soon. How long did we hear that before he fled ?Jays535is wrote:TCD is over on Bfc pimping the e36 crowd.
I also have to wonder about Todd's skills as a business person. If I was a prospective customer for one of his kits, and noticed his website still has a 2006 Catalog in early 2008, I'd wonder about the company's viability and whether I should take a chance on spending big bucks for a turbo kit.
My WAG is Todd figured out that he's pretty much reached market saturation in the E28 world. Those with the $$$s wanting to purchase his kit have done so. So he's now going after the youngsters in the E36 chassis that are lusting for more power.
Just my $.02.
Rich
The website is an issue, but lots of people suck at that. Sounds like he needs to hire a high school kid part-time to do the site.
Duke, this poll is pretty much pathetic. And it's spelled 'poll.'
-tammer
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WTF are you talking about Duke? Most are broken or sold? I think that is just your overly-complicated car. Ane it was not the fault of any TCD-supplied component in the catalog...Mine is just fine, along with most of the other cars wearing TCD parts. Just stirring the pot because you hove nothing better to do eh?
The only other car I know of that broke was Greg's, and he killed it...it didn't break...
If the performance testing of the M50/52 kit is any indication, no amount of your sorry-ass pathetic mudslinging will have any affect on TCD's success as a viable performer in the BMW performance market...
Loser....
The only other car I know of that broke was Greg's, and he killed it...it didn't break...
If the performance testing of the M50/52 kit is any indication, no amount of your sorry-ass pathetic mudslinging will have any affect on TCD's success as a viable performer in the BMW performance market...
Loser....
Danka, fixed...and it is not pathetic. You boys need to put your emotions aside for a second.Tammer in Philly wrote:And it's spelled 'poll.'
I have been here from day one of turbocharging E28s on this board which is much longer than some of the big mouths. What I have notice is that the turbo cars don't sell or sell for practically no money now that the honeymoon is over. It's a legit poll (pole
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Such class.
I could not possibly care less about Todd and his success. Don't give him that much credit or any for that matter. Just answer the poll Kyle and stop screaming like a little girl or keep quiet.Kyle in NO wrote: no amount of your sorry-ass pathetic mudslinging will have any affect on TCD's success as a viable performer in the BMW performance market...
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The e28 is definately a unique niche in classic automobiles. I wouldn't compare it's likeliness to that of american muscle car era examples. But it seems several businesses do put money into bringing back old technology, so much so that car designers are trying to recapture that essence. The lack of, or how I like to think of it, the tastefull absence of aftermarket for our cars is refreshing. I appreciate cars on a whole new level because of it.
On the other hand, I don't compare my car to others and I don't follow fads. I also do not care if cars I like are popular or not.
On the other hand, I don't compare my car to others and I don't follow fads. I also do not care if cars I like are popular or not.
Exactly, the e28 is a niche market and even more so when you talk about selling turbo e28s. They may be tough to sell because there are fewer people looking for them, but they generally bring pretty good money when they do sell. Didn't one of them just go for like $20k?
As for the forum, it's quieted down some, but I'd be willing to bet there are at least as many on-topic threads/posts.
As for the forum, it's quieted down some, but I'd be willing to bet there are at least as many on-topic threads/posts.
Re: Looks like the FI index is dead or dying.
Duke wrote:With TCD and Sweeney gone along with most of their supporters, most of the Turbo cars (TCD stuff or not) broken or sold, this index has become a ghost town.
This leads to my poll, is a after market turboed E28 a hit to its value or not?
![Image](http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/images/smilies/gives.gif)
My .0135217 Euros.
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I don't care either way, I'm just bored and would like to point out you used the e28s last available date and the e36's first. They are hardly only 4 years apart in terms of features and style, technology and market.clevertd wrote:Regardless if the car is an e28 or not, turbo cars don't sell like hot cakes. What market is there for the e28? It's a 20 year old car. The e36 is 16 years old, but look at all the after market support for it. Putting money into old technology is bad business.
I also feel, that the only purpose of a turbo e28 is the fun, of either hitting the pedal, or hitting up the wrenches. I couldn't care less about prices, because that just makes our cars cooler when there fast. DSM's are considered cheap fast cars. E28s can be had for so much less, and even with the addition of a TCD kit, the equivalently fast DSM would probably cost more. And for that you get...?Great mitsu interior? Buzzy engine? bad awd system?
Will I buy a turbo car? Doubtful. Will I turbo my own car? No. Why? I'm perfectly satisfied with things the way they are (at least mechanically). I am quite impressed at how much power they are capable of making. Of course, anyone who makes a major mechanical change such as forced induction while expecting the car to be perfectly reliable should have their head examined by a trained professional - make that team of trained professionals. Of course, there are many who could jump in their car at anytime with no hesitation - but I doubt they'd get incredibly pissed off if something went wrong. When Greg posted about blowing up his motor, I didn't see any mudslinging saying the vendors through which parts were sourced were to blame for his unfortunate mishap.
This thread and the accompanying poll are ridiculous and childish. What in the hell does a poll about whether or not someone would buy/make a turbo car used to support a "ghost-town" theory supposed to accomplish - other than start a shit storm? It's like talk-radio. It accomplishes very little other than pissing people off. Of course, like the news media, your poll choices are formatted in such a way, revealing your bias - of course that really only matters to people who don't know where your coming from.
Perhaps your username should be changed to "Super Dukeobeat" if you plan to continue your mudslinging, here. I thought the transition over to the Tiger board would be easy given it looks pretty much like this one.
Regarding the mention of the TCD website being a sign that Todd and Sweeney are poor businessmen, I know from experience that it is very difficult to be up on all aspects of running a business. I do agree that some college student or someone should be dealing with the site, but I would be more likely to purchase something from someone with the knowledge rather than the flashy website. Plus, you can just pick up the phone and call. That's one of the reasons Steve Haygood gets my business - the site is a pain to navigate and isn't always up to date, but you can reach him via phone and he's a wealth of information.
Just my thoughts. They're probably worth even less than Ben's.![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
This thread and the accompanying poll are ridiculous and childish. What in the hell does a poll about whether or not someone would buy/make a turbo car used to support a "ghost-town" theory supposed to accomplish - other than start a shit storm? It's like talk-radio. It accomplishes very little other than pissing people off. Of course, like the news media, your poll choices are formatted in such a way, revealing your bias - of course that really only matters to people who don't know where your coming from.
Perhaps your username should be changed to "Super Dukeobeat" if you plan to continue your mudslinging, here. I thought the transition over to the Tiger board would be easy given it looks pretty much like this one.
Regarding the mention of the TCD website being a sign that Todd and Sweeney are poor businessmen, I know from experience that it is very difficult to be up on all aspects of running a business. I do agree that some college student or someone should be dealing with the site, but I would be more likely to purchase something from someone with the knowledge rather than the flashy website. Plus, you can just pick up the phone and call. That's one of the reasons Steve Haygood gets my business - the site is a pain to navigate and isn't always up to date, but you can reach him via phone and he's a wealth of information.
Just my thoughts. They're probably worth even less than Ben's.
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Response...
Duke-
You (no one else) has ruined Mye28.com for me. In my opinion, the manner in which you have conducted yourself here has been a real disappointment. I do not understand and do not want to understand your repeated need for drama and conflict.
Best of luck with your Tiger project (looks like fun), but please (for the love of God) leave the e28 community alone. Here are a few alternatives - I am sure they would welcome a new face.
http://www.tigersunited.com/
http://www.classictiger.com/
http://www.catmbr.org/
http://www.sunbeamtiger.co.uk/
Thanks
SBSP
You (no one else) has ruined Mye28.com for me. In my opinion, the manner in which you have conducted yourself here has been a real disappointment. I do not understand and do not want to understand your repeated need for drama and conflict.
Best of luck with your Tiger project (looks like fun), but please (for the love of God) leave the e28 community alone. Here are a few alternatives - I am sure they would welcome a new face.
http://www.tigersunited.com/
http://www.classictiger.com/
http://www.catmbr.org/
http://www.sunbeamtiger.co.uk/
Thanks
SBSP
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Todd isn't running a sustainable business, he's trying to turn a hobby into a business. Without the support of Sweeney, Russ C, and others he wouldn't have much of anything. Also there isn't any excuse for not hiring someone under contract to update the content in his current website, particularly his catalog.Tammer in Philly wrote: Well, you question his abilities as a businessman, then note that he's gone where the business is. Hmmmm ....
The website is an issue, but lots of people suck at that. Sounds like he needs to hire a high school kid part-time to do the site.
Duke, this poll is pretty much pathetic. And it's spelled 'poll.'
-tammer
If he was thinking about really building his business he should be making the the investment for California certification of his kits. It wouldn't surprise me if he sold more kits in Cali than the rest of the country combined if he would make the investment.
Rich
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IMHO, part of the "decline" (or however you want to term it) of the niche e28 FI community here is simply a lack of 'recruiting' new blood and fostering growth among those ignorant about e28 FI.
For example, I am now 90% done with a major M20 FI project and what will be a super cool turbo kit. I have been working on it for 6+ months. How many times have I posted in this forum? Not many...if at all. Why? Because inevitably, there is very little acceptance of those of us who are not 'expert' level and have not spent scores and scores of hours researching this site to come up with their own answers. Asking questions at mye28.com is simply an unpleasant proposition, most likely to be greeted with some form of "you are an idiot".
I am a pretty smart guy, and one thing I KNOW is that if I search, and search, and search again, and read read read....for hours at a time, 99% of the time i can eventually come up with a very good solution for my problem. I understand the concept at that point, and become somewhat self-sufficient. No need to post for anything other than confirmation. HOWEVER, the problem with this approach is that it limits interaction among members, which is the lifeblood of this forum and most others.
And in this PARTICULAR subforum, the perceived level of knowledge required prior to "being accepted" and/or having questions answered is extremely high. So why WOULD people come here if they are immediately greeted with the mandate to research the issue enough to come up with their own answer - in which case a forum post becomes unnecessary in the first place?
The e28 turbo community is not dead. There is a thriving M20 forum at e30tech.com, but focused on M20 motors....another under-developed community at this forum. I will say as well that some of the top guys over there have helped me out a TON with my first turbo project, and it was never in a condescending manner.
I'll give you an example. Two days ago we were getting ready to install an e30 oil cooler on my SuperETA prior to finishing up my turbo plumbing. I searched the web for 3 days and FINALLY found a post on this forum with all the info I needed. I know for a fact that some of you would have been able to give me the answer in 5 seconds. Would I have posted this question directly on the forum. No. Am I overly sensitive? Possibly. Am I just really BAD at searching? Maybe. Conclude what you want, but the fact remains that here again an opportunity has gone by the wayside for me to develop a relationship with any of you guys due to prior experiences on this board and not wanting to have to defend myself as a 'non-idiot' first and foremost and above all else. It's just a pain in the ass.
The fact that I have a 2-page email from TurboDan (which basically got me 'over the hump' with introductory M20 turbo concepts to the point i was able to begin developing a plan myself) which is not residing in a forum sticky or post, is just ridiculous. But Dan was different about it and welcomed my questions. I appreciate his help to no end and could not have pulled any of this off without him. Part of the irony here however is the way Dan was treated at mye28.com up until the point he was able to produce certified, bona fide, stamped, approved, and altitude compensated dyno numbers. Dan has since become an integral part of the FI community here, but along with his incredible expertise, it took an EXTREME amount senseless head-banging to reach that point. Why are we like this here? Doesn't make any sense.
Not sure how to even wrap this up other than to say that if the FI sub-forum becomes a wasteland, then it is the result of a combination of ego, immaturity, impatience and short-sightedness and is entirely self-inflicted. And that's quite a shame. And be forewarned....the rest of the forum could eventually get this way, and that would suck.
For example, I am now 90% done with a major M20 FI project and what will be a super cool turbo kit. I have been working on it for 6+ months. How many times have I posted in this forum? Not many...if at all. Why? Because inevitably, there is very little acceptance of those of us who are not 'expert' level and have not spent scores and scores of hours researching this site to come up with their own answers. Asking questions at mye28.com is simply an unpleasant proposition, most likely to be greeted with some form of "you are an idiot".
I am a pretty smart guy, and one thing I KNOW is that if I search, and search, and search again, and read read read....for hours at a time, 99% of the time i can eventually come up with a very good solution for my problem. I understand the concept at that point, and become somewhat self-sufficient. No need to post for anything other than confirmation. HOWEVER, the problem with this approach is that it limits interaction among members, which is the lifeblood of this forum and most others.
And in this PARTICULAR subforum, the perceived level of knowledge required prior to "being accepted" and/or having questions answered is extremely high. So why WOULD people come here if they are immediately greeted with the mandate to research the issue enough to come up with their own answer - in which case a forum post becomes unnecessary in the first place?
The e28 turbo community is not dead. There is a thriving M20 forum at e30tech.com, but focused on M20 motors....another under-developed community at this forum. I will say as well that some of the top guys over there have helped me out a TON with my first turbo project, and it was never in a condescending manner.
I'll give you an example. Two days ago we were getting ready to install an e30 oil cooler on my SuperETA prior to finishing up my turbo plumbing. I searched the web for 3 days and FINALLY found a post on this forum with all the info I needed. I know for a fact that some of you would have been able to give me the answer in 5 seconds. Would I have posted this question directly on the forum. No. Am I overly sensitive? Possibly. Am I just really BAD at searching? Maybe. Conclude what you want, but the fact remains that here again an opportunity has gone by the wayside for me to develop a relationship with any of you guys due to prior experiences on this board and not wanting to have to defend myself as a 'non-idiot' first and foremost and above all else. It's just a pain in the ass.
The fact that I have a 2-page email from TurboDan (which basically got me 'over the hump' with introductory M20 turbo concepts to the point i was able to begin developing a plan myself) which is not residing in a forum sticky or post, is just ridiculous. But Dan was different about it and welcomed my questions. I appreciate his help to no end and could not have pulled any of this off without him. Part of the irony here however is the way Dan was treated at mye28.com up until the point he was able to produce certified, bona fide, stamped, approved, and altitude compensated dyno numbers. Dan has since become an integral part of the FI community here, but along with his incredible expertise, it took an EXTREME amount senseless head-banging to reach that point. Why are we like this here? Doesn't make any sense.
Not sure how to even wrap this up other than to say that if the FI sub-forum becomes a wasteland, then it is the result of a combination of ego, immaturity, impatience and short-sightedness and is entirely self-inflicted. And that's quite a shame. And be forewarned....the rest of the forum could eventually get this way, and that would suck.
Well written.
Very well written Russianblue - thank you.
Also - thanks for the great strut modification instructions for the Ground Control e28 setup. Those saved me a TON of time and guesswork.
Look forward to seeing that e20 Turbo project.
SBSP
Also - thanks for the great strut modification instructions for the Ground Control e28 setup. Those saved me a TON of time and guesswork.
Look forward to seeing that e20 Turbo project.
SBSP
Absolutely. I'd say there are a select few that tend to carry this attitude and most are more like Dan. I think this is kind of a turning point (or it could be) for this forum since some of these folks have stopped visiting.Russianblue wrote:Not sure how to even wrap this up other than to say that if the FI sub-forum becomes a wasteland, then it is the result of a combination of ego, immaturity, impatience and short-sightedness and is entirely self-inflicted. And that's quite a shame. And be forewarned....the rest of the forum could eventually get this way, and that would suck.
Everybody please consider why you post and what you are trying to accomplish. Posts have been much more helpful to the members in the last few weeks and I think it could continue to improve if people will bite their tongue more often (or even better, actually help).
I'll be posting my build here soon. Ive been been reading at bimmerforums lately since peeps left here. Yes ill be purchasing some stuff from TCD, i already purchased from mr haygood, Ireland Engineering and UUC. I'm new with the FI but i'll be documenting my build. and Duke try not to blow your tiger up to soon . . . drive it a little first. jk
badger
badger
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Duke, when I started my TCD build, you were very generous to come over and help me out. For that I am grateful.
However, your last several threads serve no purpose but to either stroke your ego (large enough already) or vindicate your specific experiences with turbocharging and TCD (primarily since no one else has had a similar experience). My car is very reliable, fun to drive, and the equal of the latest group of modern sports sedans. I ran it at a BMW autocross at 8lbs of boost and was 3.0 seconds off FTD on street tires. Generally, no cars on street tires get much closer to FTD than 3 seconds, even the E46s and E90s.
I set out to have an inexpensive car that could keep up with today's cars. In 2004 when I bought the TCD kit, I had to decide to either sell my 535is and buy an e36 M3 and spend $5,000+ of modifications, or buy a TCD turbo, since my 535is was already set up for autocross. My car met my goals. I am happy with my decision and would not hesitate driving this car across the country tomorrow if needed.
E28s generally sell in the $1,500 to $4,000 range for average to good condition examples. Most people can't see the logic in purchasing a turboed car for the $12,000+ it costs to build. But that's the same for any modified car. Ever see a late model Dinan car sell for anything close to the cost?
Other than your car, it seems that all of the TCD owners that have responded to threads have running cars or haven't finished their build. I don't consider that a failure.
However, your last several threads serve no purpose but to either stroke your ego (large enough already) or vindicate your specific experiences with turbocharging and TCD (primarily since no one else has had a similar experience). My car is very reliable, fun to drive, and the equal of the latest group of modern sports sedans. I ran it at a BMW autocross at 8lbs of boost and was 3.0 seconds off FTD on street tires. Generally, no cars on street tires get much closer to FTD than 3 seconds, even the E46s and E90s.
I set out to have an inexpensive car that could keep up with today's cars. In 2004 when I bought the TCD kit, I had to decide to either sell my 535is and buy an e36 M3 and spend $5,000+ of modifications, or buy a TCD turbo, since my 535is was already set up for autocross. My car met my goals. I am happy with my decision and would not hesitate driving this car across the country tomorrow if needed.
E28s generally sell in the $1,500 to $4,000 range for average to good condition examples. Most people can't see the logic in purchasing a turboed car for the $12,000+ it costs to build. But that's the same for any modified car. Ever see a late model Dinan car sell for anything close to the cost?
Other than your car, it seems that all of the TCD owners that have responded to threads have running cars or haven't finished their build. I don't consider that a failure.
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Re: Looks like the FI index is dead or dying.
You are a virus and a jerk.Duke wrote:With TCD and Sweeney gone along with most of their supporters, most of the Turbo cars (TCD stuff or not) broken or sold, this index has become a ghost town.
This leads to my poll, is a after market turboed E28 a hit to its value or not?
![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
Honestly, why not get involved with your new community (Pussycats). Your motives are utterly transparent.
For example, Lauren is driving my Lexus (company car replaced it) and I haven't visited the ClubLex board in over a month. Get over it broheim...
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I'm gonna take a stab & say possible this poll's original intention wasn't to stir up a hornet's nest. Though I haven't graduated to the FI world yet, I do drill the FI archives regularly & it seems things have been quite quiet around here lately. Be it due to weather, folks waiting on income tax to purchase a turbo kit, or other things that I'll not bring up, it's just been not as active as previous months.
IMHO, an FI e28 is worth it's weight in gold if the build was well documented from a knowledgeable owner. Would I purchase a pre-turboed e28? Yes, if I had the spare cash & it there was something very unique about it that set it apart from the rest. On the flipside, I would actually lean more towards not to buying one that was already put together. Someday I will own a TCD kit or otherwise & the juice for me will be the whole learning process. There would be absolutely no joy for me in standing besides the shiny fruits of someone else's labor. There are 2 individuals that in the past could easily have provided an exception to this rule, but I 'do' want to be able to know the process from start to finish & acquire the knowledge and busted knuckles that go along with it. What fun is a showpiece if you can't do an in depth explanation of how it works? So, since the 2 fine specimens of an FI e28 that I would purchase have already sold, I'd have to answer no I wouldn't purchase one. I'll continue to stash parts, save cash, expand my knowledge & most importantly of all continue to network with all of you in addition to maintaining my own positive mye28.com citizenship until my own FI build takes off!
IMHO, an FI e28 is worth it's weight in gold if the build was well documented from a knowledgeable owner. Would I purchase a pre-turboed e28? Yes, if I had the spare cash & it there was something very unique about it that set it apart from the rest. On the flipside, I would actually lean more towards not to buying one that was already put together. Someday I will own a TCD kit or otherwise & the juice for me will be the whole learning process. There would be absolutely no joy for me in standing besides the shiny fruits of someone else's labor. There are 2 individuals that in the past could easily have provided an exception to this rule, but I 'do' want to be able to know the process from start to finish & acquire the knowledge and busted knuckles that go along with it. What fun is a showpiece if you can't do an in depth explanation of how it works? So, since the 2 fine specimens of an FI e28 that I would purchase have already sold, I'd have to answer no I wouldn't purchase one. I'll continue to stash parts, save cash, expand my knowledge & most importantly of all continue to network with all of you in addition to maintaining my own positive mye28.com citizenship until my own FI build takes off!