Bad transaction with board member M635CSi

[Karl Heinz]

All right, I have waited long enough and need to clear the air. I was concerned that there might be a legal issue with what I am about to post, but at this point, I really do not care.

I have four e28 M5 wheels currently on my 535is and was looking for a spare to match. I came across this thread:

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=28576&highlight=

and contacted johnnye23 about buying all four and splitting the cost and wheels with him, two apiece. He agreed and I contacted M635CSi to make negotiations. This was the 3rd of February.

I was told that the wheels had been put on ebay and that I could bid on them if I wanted to. I offered to pay half the cost of the ebay fees ( $8 ) if we could go ahead and make a deal and get the rims shipped out. Instead, M635CSi wanted to wait to see how the auction went. I then stated that if the ebay auction went through and someone else bought the rims from him, then I would be interested in the spare rim and tire that he also had for $175. He agreed and we proceeded to wait.

The night that the auction was about to end, with less than an hour left, M635CSi called me at home. We talked on the phone until the auction ended, which did not meet reserve and was still at the opening bid of $200. I made the offer again for the four rims for $508 while using johnnye23's Fedex account for shipping, which M635CSi agreed upon. When the issue of funds was raised, it was determined that my personal check was acceptable, but that it had to be overnighted to M635CSi. I agreed to this and did so, sending a check in the amount of $508 on the 6th of February via Federal Express. Checking the tracking number, the check did indeed arrive the next day. Checking bank statements, the check was deposited on the 8th of February.

johnnye23 was good as his word, as his check for the difference in the two wheels came in on the 9th of February. Since I did not have an tracking information from M635CSi, I held on to johnnye23's check until I had confirmation of shipment, as I felt that was the right thing to do. I sent a personal message on the 10th to inquiry about the status of the shipment with no reply sent from M635CSi until the 13th of February. Here is the reply:

Parks, I was away today so I'm just catching up now. What I'd like to do is ship the spare wheel you need (with tire) directly to you as we originally discussed and return the balance - $508 minus $175 plus shipping (for one wheel/tire).

Let me know if this works for you or if there is any problem and we’ll work it out. I'll be around all day tomorrow and for the rest of the week if you want to give me a call.

Thanks!

(Name Withheld)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Name Withheld), I see that the check made it and has been deposited. Any issues with the rims getting sent out via Fedex? Let me know so that I can make Johnny aware of when to watch for a delivery. Thanks again and have a good one!

My reply is as follows:

From: Karl Heinz
To: M635CSi
Posted: 13 Feb 2007 05:09
Subject: Re: Needed Information For Rim Sale
(Name Withheld), I am not sure that I understand what is going on here. Please explain, as I thought that four rims were going to be shipped out from your location to (Name Withheld) in (Location Withheld). Then John and I would make arrangements from there. All was done as arranged per our phone conversations and private messages. At this point, all I am interested in is the tracking number for the rims from your location to (Location Withheld). Please provide as soon as possible.

_________________
Parks Hoyle
87 535is (Karl Heinz)
87 L6 (Blackie)

A second request for information about the shipment was sent early on the 14th. It is as follows:

From: Karl Heinz
To: M635CSi
Posted: 14 Feb 2007 23:24
Subject: Re: Needed Information For Rim Sale
(Name Withheld), I have sent you a private message and left you a voice mail in regards to the sale of the rims, with no reply on your part. I meet your request to overnight monies in the form of a personal check in the agreed upon amount. The check was received and subsequently cashed. The four rims, from what I can gather from your last private message, have not been shipped yet. My last PM to you was a request for the tracking number for the rims headed to (Name Withheld) in (location Withheld), as that was the shipping location that was agreed upon. Please provide the tracking number for the four rims that were to be shipped to John as soon as possible. If that can not be done, I believe an explanation on your part is very necessary, and a solution to this situation will need to be worked out immediately.

_________________
Parks Hoyle
87 535is (Karl Heinz)
87 L6 (Blackie)

M635CSi and I talked via telephone on the 14th of February for close to two hours. It was determined that the rims had been sold and picked up locally in New York. When I expressed that I had no further interest in doing any further business with M635CSi and that I was not interested in the spare wheel and tire he had left, it was insinuated that I had reneged on the deal. Several times, M635CSi stated that this was not "a million dollar deal" and once mentioned that these were just "f**king rims". When I expressed that I wanted the funds (including overnight shipping expenses on my part) to be returned in the same manner as they were received, I was told that was not possible.

The reasoning was that M635CSi had to have his bookkeeper cut a check for the amount. When inquiry was made as to whether M635CSi had a personal checking account to send out a check next day, it was confirmed that he indeed had several accounts. However, he was not going to go through with sending it overnight as he just did not want to and had never done any such thing before. When asked how long it would be before his bookkeeper would be cutting checks, the reply was "I do not know, but I would suspect at the end of the month." I was also informed that the reason for the transaction falling through was that I tried to "screw around with the shipping" and that everything would have gone smoothly if I had let M635CSi handle that aspect of the transaction.

M635CSi then sent me a form to agree to in order for him to be able to send me a check and process the transaction. It is as follows:

Parks,

Just to recap and per your wishes; you are no longer interested in purchasing the E28 M5 rim we originally discussed and prefer instead to have your money refunded.

If the proceeding is correct, you will receive a refund in the amount of $527.44. The amount of $527.44 represents $508 to replace your personal check plus my good faith payment to you in the amount of $19.44 to compensate for your expenses.

Please acknowledge the amount of $527.44 is being paid you and is being received by you in satisfaction of any and all outstanding obligations to which you are or may feel yourself entitled.

If the proceeding is correct and you do agree, then a check in the amount of $527.44 will be mailed to:

Parks Hoyle
6780 Cedar Ave
Cocoa, FL 32927
Tel.: (321) 433-0115

Please confirm by return message that the contents of this correspondence are correct and you are in full agreement with its terms.

(Name Withheld)

This was done on the 15th of February.

The next response arrived on the 28th of February. It is as follows:

Parks, a check in the amount of $527.44 has been mailed to:

Parks Hoyle
6780 Cedar Ave
Cocoa, FL 32927
Tel.: (321) 433-0115

The check from M635CSi arrived in a handwritten envelope with standard postage on the 2nd of March and was promptly deposited. The check was drawn from a First National Bank and Trust, and had a check number of 524. The check was dated the 26th of February and was signed by M635CSi, as it looked to be a personal check.

I have taken great pains to make sure that all that I have written is fact and fact alone. My opinion in the matter should be fairly obvious, but I am more than happy to vent if anyone wants to know my feelings. I just prefer to do so via PM and e-mails. I am not the largest poster to this community and probably would be considered a lurker by most. However, I do not want anyone else to go through this same type of affair. I am not hiding from anyone in this situation, as I feel I have done nothing wrong. Draw your own conclusions from this post and hopefully it will help someone. Thanks for letting me vent.

BTW, I am not completely jaded from this situation. So far, I have had a successful transaction with Joshua In Savannah and am in the process of another transaction with Jay in VA. I do recognize the good ones to deal with!

[robeyff]

I'm sorry you went through all that - bad board transactions make it harder for everyone else. As has always been the case, what people say means little; what they do defines their character.

[Jay in VA]

I am sorry to hear that Parks, Rest assured I have not sold of your Llama parts on eBay, nor will I. Make sure you post in the Feedback section of the forsale/wanted ads so that it's not forgotten. I think you handled the situation very diplomatically.

[andyalbany]

Being a new member here to this asylum, may I say that we can hee and haw over the right dollar figure of a deal, but once things are agreed to, then integrity and credibility must rise to the surface.
This looks like a bad experience and I'd be a bit pissed if I felt things weren't as agreed to verbally....especially within our community. The bottom line...the quick cash was more powerful than a commitment. Send him to the Honda Board!

(just kiddin)

Please no one take me too seriously, I find this a new form of healthy entertainment. I think I am even starting to feel healthier and lose weight with the board. Wait till I start adding some cool graphics, too!

[Mark 88/M5 Houston]

Pretty straight forward run around if you ask me, not to mention using you funds for an extended period of time. At least you did get your money back. You were more than reasonable from what I read in your message.

Do put this in the feedback section over on the For Sale / Wanted forum, you may save some one else from this seller.

In my opinion $175.00 is too much to pay for one of these wheels even in perfect condition. I got a full set of 5 with tires (looks like the spare was never on the ground) recently for well less than $175.00 each including shipping.

Where are you now on finding a wheel?

[M635CSi]

My only response to this is that 1) the agreement was for the wheels PLUS shipping not to have me run around town so I could stand on line at a shipping facility to use someone else’s account, and 2) That it was clear from the beginning that if the 4 wheels became unavailable he would have the one spare which is what he was looking for from the start. In spite of him not keeping either of those terms 1) for him to pay shipping and 2) whatever is available, I returned his money AND overnight costs. I would have been entirely within my rights (IMO) to send him what he had agreed to (spare wheel and tire) with the balance in cash. I think it’s notable that he agreed to my offer to return his payment in full and complete satisfaction which he now claims not to have. I waived the right to require him to honor his agreement and even covered his overnight cost. So he waits a month so the email correspondence is purged and jumps up and cries foul. Not real sympathetic to his plight. Instead of coming up with creative ways of having me cover the cost of HIS shipping by using someone else’s account, or standing by his agreement for the single spare if the other four became unavailable, he should have simply paid the shipping or kept to his deal to buy the spare. Lastly, he agreed with the words “terms accepted” to the return of his funds as full and complete satisfaction, so his pulling this out of the air a month later is not real special and actually violates his agreement and shows he either wasn’t being forthright when he made it or simply has two sets of rules.

From: M635CSi To: Karl Heinz Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:28 pm Subject: Re: Needed Information For Rim Sale
Karl Heinz wrote:
Chris, terms are accepted.

I'm OK with this because I still gave him more than what he was entitled.

[robeyff]

Well, it's your word against his as to what the original agreement was - there is nothing in the posted emails concerning "if the wheels become unavailable."

Your "they are just F%$king rims" comment doesn't speak well of your character.

[skip535i]

My only response to this is that 1) the agreement was for the wheels PLUS shipping not to have me run around town so I could stand on line at a shipping facility to use someone else’s account, and 2) That it was clear from the beginning that if the 4 wheels became unavailable he would have the one spare which is what he was looking for from the start. In spite of him not keeping either of those terms 1) for him to pay shipping and 2) whatever is available, I returned his money AND overnight costs. I would have been entirely within my rights (IMO) to send him what he had agreed to (spare wheel and tire) with the balance in cash. I think it’s notable that he agreed to my offer to return his payment in full and complete satisfaction which he now claims not to have. I waived the right to require him to honor his agreement and even covered his overnight cost. So he waits a month so the email correspondence is purged and jumps up and cries foul. Not real sympathetic to his plight. Instead of coming up with creative ways of having me cover the cost of HIS shipping by using someone else’s account, or standing by his agreement for the single spare if the other four became unavailable, he should have simply paid the shipping or kept to his deal to buy the spare. Lastly, he agreed with the words “terms accepted” to the return of his funds as full and complete satisfaction, so his pulling this out of the air a month later is not real special and actually violates his agreement and shows he either wasn’t being forthright when he made it or simply has two sets of rules.

From: M635CSi To: Karl Heinz Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:28 pm Subject: Re: Needed Information For Rim Sale
Karl Heinz wrote:
Chris, terms are accepted.

That’s OK because I still gave him more than what he was entitled.

And to think all you had to do was say you were sorry. If you're right then why do you have to be so defensive...

Keep digging your hole deeper

[robeyff]

Additionaly, I find it hard to believe Parks would send you 500.00+ for 4 wheels if the agreement was for one.

I realize this is not my transaction and folks get tired of reading transaction flame wars, but given human nature the only way to keep transactions on our board neat, clean, and bullshit free is to protest and raise a stink at the ones that aren't.

[M635CSi]

Well, it's your word against his as to what the original agreement was - there is nothing in the posted emails concerning "if the wheels become unavailable."

Your "they are just F%$king rims" comment doesn't speak well of your character.

If you were on the phone with him you may think differently or perhaps you wouldn't but it's a no matter. He ignors his agreement which he accepted because if he included it his post would be seen as self serving. If he wasn't OK with the terms under which he accepted money then he should have said so instead of saying "terms accepted." Do I feel bad about this? No, not at all. Had he said OK, I'll honor the agreement and take the spare wheel and tire for $175 plus shipping I would have cut him a deal, very good deal but he wanted to stand on some idea of right and wrong yet turn a blind eye to his part. The fact that he never paid for shipping means he never paid for the wheels. He said why didn't I call him and we could have worked it out. That's when the "they are just F%$king rims" came up because they are just that and I have no interest in making a career out of a girl scout transaction. Beyond that, I think it appropriate that he got what he was trying to push on me pushed back on him. The terms couldn't have been simpler so much plus shipping. He never paid the shipping so I returned his money and even compensated him for his overnight fee. I asked him to agree this was in full satisfaction which he agreed with and now is saying what? That is isn't? . His money was returned within 30 days, he's got no complaint but I do have a complaint.

[robeyff]

That's when the "they are just F%$king rims" came up because they are just that and I have no interest in making a career out of a girl scout transaction.

Well, that pretty well sums it up.

[rlomba8204]

Before everyone jumps on a bandwagon one way or the other, fwiw, I've learned it is important, especially in my line of work, to not reach any judgments before hearing, and considering, what everyone has to say.

In this case, needless to say it wasn't an ideal transaction, but then again, the money was returned (almost a month ago if I followed this saga correctly), so at the end of the day, worse things can happen. If you want to post the experience in the buyer / seller feedback thread, that would certainly be fair game, but what purpose does it serve to raise this now?

Fwiw, I've had great experiences with this group. Jay in VA recently sent me some armrest caps, and wouldn't even let me pay him for the shipping, I got a great deal on a heater solenoid valve (although I forget the member's name, I posted in the feedback thread), and I bought a replacement Bentley from Geerhed -- all great transactions. Most recently, Spinedocab is sending me some fuel injectors. Again, all a pleasure.

My only point mentioning this is not to take sides, but rather to point out that I think one of the reasons these transactions go as well as they do is because of the comraderie here amongst fellow enthusiasts. This is a great group, on balance. I would hesitate to see that enthusiasm compromised by a he said, she said outside the feedback thread that seems destined to start another useless pissing contest. Again, I am not saying it's not a fair point to raise in the feedback thread, but I just don't see the point of putting it here.

[robeyff]

Before everyone jumps on a bandwagon one way or the other, fwiw, I've learned it is important, especially in my line of work, to not reach any judgments before hearing, and considering, what everyone has to say.

In this case, needless to say it wasn't an ideal transaction, but then again, the money was returned (almost a month ago of I followed this saga correctly), so at the end of the day, worse things can happen. If you want to post the experience in the buyer / seller feedback thread, that would certainly be fair game, but what purpose does it serve to raise this now?

Fwiw, I've had great experiences with this group. Jay in VA recently sent me some armrest caps, and wouldn't even let me pay him for the shipping, I got a great deal on a heater solenoid valve (although I forget the member's name, I posted in the feedback thread), and I bought a replacement Bentley from Geerhed -- all great transactions. Most recently, Spinedocab is sending me some fuel injectors. Again, all a pleasure.

My only point mentioning this is not to take sides, but rather to point out that I think one of the reasons these transactions go as well as they do is because of the comraderie here amongst fellow enthusiasts. This is a great group, on balance. I would hesitate to see that enthusiasm compromised by a he said, she said outside the feedback thread that seems destined to start another useless pissing contest. Again, I am not saying it's not a fair point to raise in the feedback thread, but I just don't see the point of putting it here.

I'm sure one of the admins can move this to the feedback thread. While not pleasant, these kinds of threads are valuable - this is our little neighborhood, and if you're going to do business in your neighborhood it helps to know your neighbors.

As we don't see each other at the corner pub on a regular basis, we have to make our judgements based on what happens here on our little board.

[DRP535]

And all this for a spare wheel that isn't going to fit properly in the wheel well in the boot anyway. Read this thread and you'll see how pointless all this has been: http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=30416

[Jeremy]

M635csi-

You demanded that the check be overnighted to you. It was.

The check amount was for 4 wheels. You were provided (according to Parks) with account information for FedEx. With this information, you box the goods, call FedEx, and they come and pick it up.

Parks lived up to every part of the deal. He paid for shipping. The fact that you declined his terms for how he was going to pay for shipping could've been settled between the two of you. Particularly, BEFORE you cashed his check.

Why you wouldn't agree to it is beyond me. You said you wanted it simple. Box them, phone call, they're gone.

By cashing his check, you accepted the terms of the deal, and those wheels were Karl's. You broke the deal when you got rid of three of the wheels and offered him a partial refund. Nowhere in the corespondance you two had do I see anything about you objecting to the payment amount or the shipping costs.

The financial matter was ended to his satisfaction. That's what your final contract with him settles. That doesn't mean he felt he was treated with the kind of trust or candor that he deserved, and he's here to tell us about how you handle yourself when dealing with board members. Not exactly a glowing endorsement of a person with stellar character traits.

Jeremy

[tsmall07]

I think this thing has been blown way out of proportion. I'm not judging either side here, because I was not directly involved. Neither should any of you. I think the situation, while not handled correctly, has reached a reasonable solution and there is no reason to continue it further. I feel like my girlfriend is making me watch an episode of "The Hills" here. I'll admit that I haven't seen eye to eye with M635CSI on a lot of things that he has said, but I'm not about to make a judgment call on his character. If there was a string of incidences I might understand the harshness, but it seems like an isolated event. I've been on the bad side of everyone taking the side of the first story they hear, and its not fun (or fair). Move on.

[Karl Heinz]

Look, I did not post this recount of activities to get into a flame war. That was not the point. As far as I am concerned, I want nothing to do ever again with M635CSi. That is a shame because he sounds like he might have a fair amount of knowledge about our vehicles and can probably contribute to the community in a positive manner. What I realize now is that he sees no culpability in his actions. He feels wronged in this instance, which completely amazes me.

Bottom line is he took my money without sending goods, kept the funds to use for half a month, and then absolves himself of any wrongdoing by having me "agree" to be satisfied that he will send my money back to me. If I had not agreed to his demand, I would more than likely not have my funds back. There was nothing in this "agreement" about not posting the facts of this transaction on the board. A nondisclosure clause would probably have been beneficial for him, but it was just four rims being sold, so maybe it was not necessary.

The easiest solution to the whole affair would have been for M635CSi to have not agreed to us using johnnye23's account for shipping, but he never let me know if it was an issue. He could have called, e-mailed, or messaged me to let me know there was a problem. It never happened. He could have torn up my check and let me know that he had sold the four rims to someone else. I would have been disappointed, but I can understand making a better deal for more money, as I look for that myself. We all do. But he did not do that.

Instead, he sat on my money and turned it around as if I was the one that caused the problem because I did not do what he wanted. In his eyes, I was the cause for the sale falling through because I wanted to make other arrangements than for him to charge me $120 for four rims to ship from New York to Tennessee. This is after he was asked repeatedly if the arrangements being made in regards to shipping were acceptable. As I said before, Amazing. Yes, I did get my money back, completely and in full. I am not disputing that. I also ended up not having the use of my hard earned funds for close to three weeks.

DRP, please read your own post, as my intent was to do exactly what Chris is doing. I still want another e28 M5 rim so that I can have a spare that matches the rest of the wheels on my vehicle. I guess I am a little weird that way, but so what? It's my money, at least for half a month.

Jay, no worries. I trust you and take your word for what it is. Let me know if you need any other funds for shipping, as what was sent may not be enough.

Tyler, I did not made a comment or reference to Chris's character in my original post. I have done my damnedest to make sure that I left my opinions and feelings out and simply told it as it happened. You draw your own conclusions from your own dealings with the man. He seems very intelligent and can be extremely articulate. I STILL want nothing to do with him, ever. You try having $527.44 taken out of your monthly income with nothing to show but a shaky "maybe". It sucks; I know because I found out the hard way!

[andyalbany]

Just got home from Chicago after being stuck there for 6 hours and I had to check on this post to see what happened while I was in transit.
There's got to be a judge in the asylum....we should try to find him and have him preside over this case.

Anywho, how do you get on the "best of all" MyE28 board with a screen name M635csi. His punishment should be to make him change his name and come back a new user and start over. Does he even own a E28 5 er? Oops. Neither do I but I am looking.

[M635CSi]

You were provided (according to Parks) with account information for FedEx. With this information, you box the goods, call FedEx, and they come and pick it up.

The wheels had to be brought over to the FedEx terminal and processed. The shipping wasn't paid; he wanted me to put it on the company account of another party.

Parks lived up to every part of the deal. He paid for shipping. The fact that you declined his terms for how he was going to pay for shipping could've been settled between the two of you. Particularly, BEFORE you cashed his check.

Jeremy, I appreciate that your knowledge of this is far superior to mine, after all, I wasn't involved. But my understanding, however limited, is that there was a desire and agreement for one E28 M5 spare wheel and tire for the price of $175 plus shipping if the set of four wheels weren't or became available. So it was my option to sell him the one spare wheel and tire for $175 plus shipping or the set of four wheels plus shipping. Because the check wasn't enough to cover shipping, the default position I was entitled to enjoy, was to sell him the one E28 M5 spare wheel and tire. When it came time to exercise my option and communicate to him, he broke and said he wanted the money back. I agreed to send him not only his payment, but his overnight fee as well. That is all during the time I had the absolute right to send him the spare E28 M5 wheel with tire and deduct the balance plus shipping from the amount he sent. In good faith, I waived that right and returned his entire amount and covered his overnight mail cost.

By cashing his check, you accepted the terms of the deal, and those wheels were Karl's.

No Jeremy, by agreeing to the terms of my offer he entered into an agreement. Cashing the check was ceremony. My offer was he could buy the four wheels for $500 plus shipping if they were still available or by derivation, the one wheel for $175 plus shipping and that if the four wheels weren't available he agreed to still want the one spare E28 M5 wheel and tire. The fact that we both expected to get him the four wheels is significant because although I had the option to sell him the one spare wheel and tire I would have preferred to sell him the four wheels and he would have preferred the four wheels. Problem being, there was no money sent to ship the wheels and the FedEx account (apparently) was for terminal drop off only. The terms of the agreement mandate the buyer be responsible for shipping charges so by correspondence, I was not. It may also be argued that in light of the amount of funds sent, the only transaction available was for the one wheel and spare tire.

You broke the deal when you got rid of three of the wheels and offered him a partial refund. Nowhere in the corespondance you two had do I see anything about you objecting to the payment amount or the shipping costs.

Jeremy, There was more to the correspondence than the emails, there was probably two hours of phone calls involving this agreement of which you appear to be unaware. To begin with, the number of wheels was not 4 but 5 and one spare tire mounted on the fifth wheel. That is how the discussion of the spare wheel and tire came to pass. I had the four wheels AND I had a spare wheel and tire.

The financial matter was ended to his satisfaction. That's what your final contract with him settles. That doesn't mean he felt he was treated with the kind of trust or candor that he deserved,

Apparently your interpretation of "satisfaction" differs from mine. He accepted money in satisfaction. In settling the transaction with agreement, he gave up his right to whine bitch and complain because he agreed he was satisfied. That he is now here saying he wasn’t calls into question what right he has to make such an assertion.

and he's here to tell us about how you handle yourself when dealing with board members. Not exactly a glowing endorsement of a person with stellar character traits.

Actually, he's here telling everyone about how he handles himself. How he handles money through agreement and how much reliance other people should place on his statements.

[Bill in MN]

M, you wouldn't happen to be a lawyer, would you?

[some guy]

If you aren't going to send the product, don't cash the check.

If the check is for the wrong amount, don't cash the check.

If there is confusion on what the transaction entails, don't cash the check.

Seems pretty basic to me.

Sounds like someone needed a loan for a month.

[LA]

Guys --chill! Enough about this. I think a set of those [f*!*ing] rims could have been hand built from scratch for the amount of energy and passion collectively invested in this thread.

Just MHO...
LA

[Shawn D.]

M635CSi then sent me a form to agree to in order for him to be able to send me a check and process the transaction...

Whatever the meat of the issue might be (misunderstanding, bad faith, or whatever else), the above really takes the cake. M635CSi cashes a check that he shouldn't have, then demands that Parks send a form to get his money back? I doubt that M635CSi would have cottoned to a demand the other way 'round to start the transaction (although with the way events unfolded, it seems as if it would have been advisable).

[M635CSi]

Bottom line is he took my money without sending goods, kept the funds to use for half a month, and then

That's not the bottom line; the bottom line is this issue is dead because the issue was resolved to your satisfaction. You have received and accepted payment for that satisfaction and have retained that payment. You refused to accept delivery on a part you agreed to purchase and sent payment for; the only part that you sent enough money to purchase and have delivered.

absolves himself of any wrongdoing by having me "agree" to be satisfied that he will send my money back to me.

Problem with your argument is that you agreed you were satisfied. You were allowed more than the return of your money, you were allowed out of your agreement to purchase the one spare wheel and tire.

How terribly wrong of me to expect you to know the turms of our agreement. Your argument here seems to be that the turms under which people accept money aren't important if it will get them what they want or what they feel entitled. You need to return the money before you even have a legitimate platform for anything to discuss.

If I had not agreed to his demand, I would more than likely not have my funds back.

I would hardly call an offer to return money in full in addition to covering someone's mailing cost and allowing them to avoid responsibility for their agreement a "demand", but your framing of this situation is pretty obviously designed to make you look like a victim. You had every right to say no, I'm not satisfied but that right ended with your accepting money in satisfaction. You're now saying you weren't satisfied but were too afraid to admit it; how attractive.

There was nothing in this "agreement" about not posting the facts of this transaction on the board. A nondisclosure clause would probably have been beneficial for him, but it was just four rims being sold, so maybe it was not necessary.

I appreciate the lawyerly advice but what was the need for non disclosure when you were satisfied with the resolution and have gotten more than that to which you were entitled? On what basis should I have relied up a non disclosure agreement when your other agreements turned out to be worthless? You didn't keep your agreement to pay shipping, you didn't keep your agreement to buy the one spare wheel and tire and now apparently you're saying you entered into an agreement to be paid money under a pretense that you were satisfied when you weren't. What difference would it have made to have additional agreements? If you had a problem with that transaction you should have stood up like a man and held your ground. But you didn’t stand up, you didn’t hold your ground and you didn’t keep your agreements.

[robeyff]

I propose one of the admins. move this thread to the feedback section.

I don't know about y'all, but there is enough information here for me to make a decision on who I would prefer to do business with.

[LA]

This is sounding like one of the 'did not -- you did it' arguments between my kids.

How 'bout if I re-melt some aluminum and you guys come on over with your hammers, chisels and files...

[M635CSi]

M635CSi then sent me a form to agree to in order for him to be able to send me a check and process the transaction...

Whatever the meat of the issue might be (misunderstanding, bad faith, or whatever else), the above really takes the cake. M635CSi cashes a check that he shouldn't have, then demands that Parks send a form to get his money back? I doubt that M635CSi would have cottoned to a demand the other way 'round to start the transaction (although with the way events unfolded, it seems as if it would have been advisable).

I'm curious to know what basis you have for saying I shouldn't have cashed a check that was mailed to me, listed me as the payee, and was payment for a part under agreement to sell. The fact that the exact part (wheels or wheel and spare tire) exact amount for shipping were as yet undetermined and thus the transaction was unknown in those elements doesn't make a difference, or does it? Adjustments are made all to time to balance books, issue credit or provide a refund. So my question to you is why do you feel I wasn't entitled to cash that check and deliver the spare wheel and tire as agreed with the balance (after shipping) returned? And why do you feel it's OK for someone to accept money to resolve an issue but retain a property interest in the issue after they've received money for it's release?

The money was sent in consideration (payment) for that agreement, he was not entitled to the money without it. He was entitled to the spare wheel and tire, or if he paid for shipping (before they were sold) the set of four wheels. The set of four wheels was frustrated by the shipping issue so that left the single spare wheel and tire plus shipping on that.

I paid him for satisfaction on the deal with the lost sale of the spare wheel and tire. Holt got what he paid for (released from his obligation to take delivery of the single spare wheel and tire). He has provided evidence that he was satisfied. What did I receive for my payment?

[Jeremy]

I propose one of the admins. move this thread to the feedback section.

I don't know about y'all, but there is enough information here for me to make a decision on who I would prefer to do business with.

Stop saying that, please. We're not omnipotent, and cannot move a single post from one thread to another. We can move an entire thread from one forum to another, but we do not have a feedback forum.

If Karl would like to post something in the feedback thread, he may do so at his discretion.

Jeremy

[ElGuappo]

M635Csi: WRONG.
When you cashed the check for $508 that was for 4 wheels, not anythign else.
If these are the facts here, then you are just WRONG.
It was not 'Your discretion' to send him something else other than what he paid for. If he just wanted the spare wheel at $175+shipping, then he would have sent you that.

You showed no honor in selling those wheels out from under him after agreeing to a sale already. I don't care if someone walks up to your front door and waves more money in your face. HONOR THE DEAL YOU MADE.

I personally am so tired of sellers who make a deal and then tell me at the last minute 'Oh sorry, I know you just drove an hour and are only 15 minutes away with cash in your pocket, but I just sold them to someone else for $50 more'

hon·or: a keen sense of ethical conduct : INTEGRITY <wouldn't do it as a matter of honor> b : one's word given as a guarantee of performance <on>

Think about that.

Jay3

[rlomba8204]

I propose one of the admins. move this thread to the feedback section.

I don't know about y'all, but there is enough information here for me to make a decision on who I would prefer to do business with.

Stop saying that, please. We're not omnipotent, and cannot move a single post from one thread to another. We can move an entire thread from one forum to another, but we do not have a feedback forum.

If Karl would like to post something in the feedback thread, he may do so at his discretion.

Jeremy

Jeremy:
Maybe I am misunderstanding you, (I am not the best when it comes to computers), but don't we have a feedback thread in the For Sale forum? I think Frank is requesting that this thread be moved to the For Sale forum, but maybe I am missing something. To the extent it is possible to move it, I agree with him.

TIA.