ALERT: new dyno numbers with built motor!

[gol10dr1]

well after 6 months of f**king around the TCD S3 motor is finally done and is now being broken in. the specs on the motor are as follows:

brand new m30b35 short block
bored out to 3.6 liters
8.0:1 je pistons
metal head gasket
arp head studs
60-1 turbo
tcd s2 kit
bmp short shifter

these are all the performance parts and just about every part in the motor was replaced with a new oem part. the transmission was also replaced as it decided to shit the bed after 233,000 miles of beating. i would have had the car back a week ago but we were plagued by an oil leak that probably could have been solved quite easily but the builder decided to go old school instead of just using some loctite.

so i took the car to my tuner today to work over the tec3. the first few hours were spent installing new plug wires and plugs as one wire was fried and the car was only firing on 5 cylinders. after that issue was cleared up we changed the plx wideband that was in there to a innovative wideband and we were ready to tune. this was only meant to be a break in tune but we still kept the boost pretty high while staying semi conservative on the timing and RPM. we made 398 rwhp and 455 tq at 20 psi, all while only reving to 5500 RPM (redline is set at 6600). to say the least i was quite happy with the results. we took the car for a spin after wards and i spun the tires in 4th gear at 85 mph!!!!! talk about a torque monster! on the way home i made a pit stop at ulysses "the card counter's" house to pick up his old drag radials (only been used twice) so i can lay down some nice rubber at the track.

right now the new motor has about 350 miles on her and i will drive it a lot this weekend to bring it up to roughly 1000 miles before i go back to the tuner next tuesday for the "race" tune. the next tune will include slightly more aggressive timing and reving it all the way to redline of course! i would like to run the boost at 23-25 psi but if it is not able to sustain boost we will back it off. in addition to the tuning, my innovative msbc-1 boost controller will be installed. this controller is pretty sick. it allows for different boost settings in each gear and a host of other little tricks!

this stage of the build took 6 months and 3 days! i had originally planned to get a larger turbo this summer too and shoot for 550 rwhp but seeing as how the car has been away for 6 months, i just want to drive it and drive it hard so i will post pone the larger turbo until next summer. i do not have the dyno sheet on my computer but todd does so todd, could you please post it for everyone to see.

in conclusion, i would just like to thank everyone who helped me out along the way; todd from tcd, all the boys at autoy and autowerke, card counter, george and brian at ics, larry strouth and larry strouth jr at hp works and every one on the forums. none of this would be possible without you guys.

[Tjn182]

near 400rwhp? and 450rwtq?? daaaaamn son....

I'm like totally jealous... totally.... 8)

[Nana535i]

Very impressive.

[Duke]

GREAT news! You are getting close to my goal of 600 crank HP.

Can you send Todd (TCD) your BIN file to use on my car? He will be working on the tune once the engine is back together.

[russc]

Fantastic,
The is really great to hear. 398whp is an OH MY. Cant what to see the dyno charts.

Ya, a 60-1 wont support 550whp. You'll have to go bigger.

Nice work,

RussC

[Yellow2]

OMG

[T_C_D]

Can you send Todd (TCD) your BIN file to use on my car?

No thanks. I'll tune the car myself.

[Duke]

Can you send Todd (TCD) your BIN file to use on my car?

No thanks. I'll tune the car myself.

It would be nice for a referance. He did have Tec3 guys tuning it on a dyno. Do you have a dyno?

[T_C_D]

Can you send Todd (TCD) your BIN file to use on my car?

No thanks. I'll tune the car myself.

It would be nice for a referance. He did have Tec3 guys tuning it on a dyno. Do you have a dyno?

Want me to ship the car to them so they can do it?

[Duke]

Can you send Todd (TCD) your BIN file to use on my car?

No thanks. I'll tune the car myself.

It would be nice for a referance. He did have Tec3 guys tuning it on a dyno. Do you have a dyno?

Want me to ship the car to them so they can do it?

No, not after your last PM

[russc]

Can you send Todd (TCD) your BIN file to use on my car?

No thanks. I'll tune the car myself.

It would be nice for a referance. He did have Tec3 guys tuning it on a dyno. Do you have a dyno?

Want me to ship the car to them so they can do it?

No, not after your last PM

Ohh...Snap..

Todd, got those dyno charts?

RussC

[gol10dr1]

i don't know how to post the damn dyno graph but hows this to keep you occupied while you wait...............between 3200 RPM and 4200 RPM it picks up 250 rwhp!!!

[russc]

i don't know how to post the damn dyno graph but hows this to keep you occupied while you wait...............between 3200 RPM and 4200 RPM it picks up 250 rwhp!!!

Nice, thats alot as your 12psi chart in the same area only picks up 140hp.

RussC

[T_C_D]

[russc]

Nice,
Very powerful. Im curious on the power dropoff before 5k rpm? Is that due we think to turbo size or other factor I haven't though of?

The M30b35 usally makes power til ~5200rpm.

Is there a AFR chart?

RussC

[gol10dr1]

no afr chart, that was monitored by the tec3 and not a tail pipe sniffer. as for the boost i am kind of curious too, we did only rev the car to 5500 RPM for break in but that graph def shows a loss of power before that. wonder if it has anything to do with the dyno and the way it places load on the car. on the street that turbo doesnt trail off until i hit the redline!

[russc]

no afr chart, that was monitored by the tec3 and not a tail pipe sniffer. as for the boost i am kind of curious too, we did only rev the car to 5500 RPM for break in but that graph def shows a loss of power before that. wonder if it has anything to do with the dyno and the way it places load on the car. on the street that turbo doesnt trail off until i hit the redline!

Um, I would think that the street load wouldn't change that curve much. Educated guess tells me that while it feels strong on the street to a higher rpm, the power loss is the same as that chart would indicate. Your "butt dyno" may not feel the power loss as your car is doing alot in the upper rpm range in higher gears that mask what the actuall output is.

RussC

[rundatrack]

Can you send Todd (TCD) your BIN file to use on my car?

No thanks. I'll tune the car myself.

It would be nice for a referance. He did have Tec3 guys tuning it on a dyno. Do you have a dyno?

Want me to ship the car to them so they can do it?

[Jeremy]

To my decidedly un-educated eyes . . . It seems that boost comes on AWFULLY late. What's up with that? Also, the torque curve becomes wonky and wobbly above 4750 or so. Too much fuel? It looks a lot like my curve when the AFR got too low for proper ignition at that point.

Great numbers, though!! Seems to be a lot of potential for that setup, I hope more tuning smooths out some of those issues. Looks like it hits pretty hard, much be a rreal kick in the shorts to drive.

Jeremy

[gol10dr1]

To my decidedly un-educated eyes . . . It seems that boost comes on AWFULLY late. What's up with that? Also, the torque curve becomes wonky and wobbly above 4750 or so. Too much fuel? It looks a lot like my curve when the AFR got too low for proper ignition at that point.

Great numbers, though!! Seems to be a lot of potential for that setup, I hope more tuning smooths out some of those issues. Looks like it hits pretty hard, much be a rreal kick in the shorts to drive.

Jeremy

you are right about the boost. it does seem to come on late and that was one thing i did not like about the current setup. however, before the 13 psi was reaching full boost at 3400 RPM and this 20 psi is reaching full boost at about 4000 RPM (?). also, my tuner decided to leave it pretty rich for the break in period. on the dyno the afr's were roughly 11.0:1 at WOT and the top of the rev range. when i go back for the retune we talked about doing 24-25 psi and about 11.7:1 afr's on the dyno so we get roughly 12.0:1-12.5:! afr's on the street. that should make that turbo wake up much quicker.

[russc]

In thinking about this more, lets be realistic, the 60-1 is not a "small" turbo.


At 20psi, thats a 2.36PR. On that map its in the third island and getting farther off. This may be the same situation that Dinan did to the turbo S38s ie undersize the turbo to keep airflow down and save the engine. When you see S38 dynos, they peak really early for a high reving engine, but its suppose to happen. This seems really similar to that.

I don't believe the tubo you have will make significantly more power with 5psi more boost. If that 60-1 map is to be believed, your looking at maybe ~425-435whp. If your able to tune it better, maybe some more. Definatley not above 460whp I believe, but your could prove me wrong....

RussC

[gol10dr1]

420 whp will make me very happy. we will see tommorrow! 8)

[Bimmerguy2002]

why do these turbo's add so much power?
Or is it higher compression?
Or are these turbo kits just well designed?

[russc]

why do these turbo's add so much power?
Or is it higher compression?
Or are these turbo kits just well designed?

You should read the background on these cars. Theres plenty of threads for that.

You questions are a little vague. But, yes, the turbo system is well designed by TCD, compression varies from car to car depending on build and because both the prior variables are good, the turbos make alot of power..

RussC

[Bimmerguy2002]

geez man, it seriously makes me want to not even do my engine now, seriously.
It would never break 250 HP with what my setup will be, its a whole nother ball game really.
With 3.5 liters for example and like 350 HP and 400 torque for example, thats 1 horsepower per 10cc's, thats like 210 cubic inches or like 2 horsepower per cubic inch....really remarkable.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

you are right about the boost. it does seem to come on late and that was one thing i did not like about the current setup. however, before the 13 psi was reaching full boost at 3400 RPM and this 20 psi is reaching full boost at about 4000 RPM (?). also, my tuner decided to leave it pretty rich for the break in period. on the dyno the afr's were roughly 11.0:1 at WOT and the top of the rev range. when i go back for the retune we talked about doing 24-25 psi and about 11.7:1 afr's on the dyno so we get roughly 12.0:1-12.5:! afr's on the street. that should make that turbo wake up much quicker.

I'd hate to say this, but MOST tuners actually lean out mixtures for break-in, so that you don't have lots of fuel washing down the cylinder walls. Running a rich mixture for break-in doesn't make any sense. You want the rings to seat properly, which won't happen with a rich mixture.

Also, if your timing is conservative, that will greatly effect u'r spool time.

[russc]

you are right about the boost. it does seem to come on late and that was one thing i did not like about the current setup. however, before the 13 psi was reaching full boost at 3400 RPM and this 20 psi is reaching full boost at about 4000 RPM (?). also, my tuner decided to leave it pretty rich for the break in period. on the dyno the afr's were roughly 11.0:1 at WOT and the top of the rev range. when i go back for the retune we talked about doing 24-25 psi and about 11.7:1 afr's on the dyno so we get roughly 12.0:1-12.5:! afr's on the street. that should make that turbo wake up much quicker.

I'd hate to say this, but MOST tuners actually lean out mixtures for break-in, so that you don't have lots of fuel washing down the cylinder walls. Running a rich mixture for break-in doesn't make any sense. You want the rings to seat properly, which won't happen with a rich mixture.

Also, if your timing is conservative, that will greatly effect u'r spool time.

While that may be true for NA engine, it may not for a turbo engine, as you need fuel to keep pre-det away. Since Andrew is running significant boost during break-in, you can't have both lean and 20psi.

Im not sure that 11-12:1 is too rich for break-in but Im no expert on ring seating?

RussC

[Brad D.]

While that may be true for NA engine, it may not for a turbo engine, as you need fuel to keep pre-det away. Since Andrew is running significant boost during break-in, you can't have both lean and 20psi.

Im not sure that 11-12:1 is too rich for break-in but Im no expert on ring seating?

RussC

I agree, and while Im no expert either, I ran roughly 11.5:1 during the breakin of my sr20det in my 240sx. This was at 14psi on the breakin. I do however think that changing the oil frequently during breakin is a very good idea. I changes mine once after warmup in the driveway, once again at 100 miles, 500 miles and at 1000 miles I switched to synthetic oil with no problems.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

what I ment was, most tuners don't tell the person to get into big boost under break in... this is what I don't understand.

20 psi it a lot to break in the motor... you might as well not even call it a break in... u'r just boosting it like a regular motor.

after a motor rebuild, boost should be set low (like wastegate low) with a fairly lean (but safe) mixture.

otherwise what's the point of calling it a break-in, when u'r just boosting the hell out of it?

[russc]

Good point. Again, Imno expert in ring sealing. Maybe just the lower rpm limit is enough.

Its still unclear to me if ~11.5:1 will wash enough fuel down the cylinder walls to make a difference?

RussC